Why would anyone avoid a Plus coin?
Zoins
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Here's an article mentioning a number of collectors won't buy a Plus coin. This seems strange to me, especially if the coin is in a late generation holder.
Why would anyone avoid a Plus coin?
Recently we have seen an increase of people who will not buy a coin if they know it was bumped up to a +. In my mind, that is ridiculous. Why? So long as the coin warrants it, the coin probably was VERY HIGH END to begin with. There is an even higher probably the coin cost the same as with a +.
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Its frustrating some people will buy a very expensive NON +, before they would buy a more relative priced +.
https://www.legendnumismatics.com/hot_topics/a-few-words-about-coins/
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Baffles me as well. I have bid on few coins through their firm, although I have yet to successfully win a bid, and I can attest to the article mentioning the quality they seek out and for what amount. A plus grade is the same as a CAC stickered coin to me. Yet these same people mentioned will buy them over a plus? Now I know what to bid on and how to adjust accordingly.
We need - coins.
MS64-
Maybe the coins referenced are those where there are huge price differences between a plus and a non-plus coin and the referenced individuals don't think the marginal increase in quality is worth the difference in price. Otherwise I don't understand it at all. Then again, I always believed in paying attention to the shiny metal disk in the middle and not the label, plastic holder, or stickers enshrining it. I'm weird; I know.
Aren't those the ones without CAC stickers?
I like plus coins (in most cases)
It's all about price in the world of plastic.
Yup. It comes down to price verses quality. Most people don't want to pay 65 money for a 64+ coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In most cases, especially when there is a big jump in price from 64 to 65, isn’t the price of a 64+ closer to that of the 64 than the 65? In theory, you might think that the + concept should help align plastic price with the quality of the coin.
I've liked some of the early + coins before the pronged holder. Some seem like they got down graded to establish the new niche. As far as paying premiums I've bought + coins at shows without the + premium and also CAC coins at wholesale levels. All depends on the dealer and how much weight they place on the extra fluff.
I was not aware of this.... I am not a dealer, so really no opportunity to observe the phenomena...That being said, I have never really subscribed to the hairsplitting 'special' attribution.... just like going to the decimal system or 100 point scale....... If the label means more than the coin, you are no longer a coin collector. Cheers, RickO
What was the basis for the claim ”... the coin probably was VERY HIGH END to begin with..”? Maybe the coin was mid-range or even low end, to begin with.
And this part doesn’t make sense, either: “ There is an even higher probably the coin cost the same as with a +”. Most plus coins cost more than they would without the plus.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have a number of plus coins and have no problem with them. I do know a few people who believe that a plus coin often is about the limitation rather than being strong for the grade. In other words, a 64+ that is has some limiting attribute that means it will never be a 65. Whereas a strong coin in a 64 holder that has not been submitted for a plus always has the potential to be a 65. I don't really agree with this since each coin has to be judged on its own merits but this may be part of the answer to the OP.
typical marketing fluff complaint form an ex-ex-member, but I presume it is based on her experience. if you think about it, the use of the (+) actually does nothing more than expose a buyer to a higher price.
Blah,blah, blah HIGH END....blah blah blah.
Reminds me of this
My Saint Set
People buy vowels , in that other game. Wheel of Torture... when we're selling stars, stickers, and slabs of plastic.. so now we include signs.
Show me the plus sign.
Okay... so which one is it?
Plus CAC for $200,000, Alex.
Actually, that's not really true. CAC ignores the +. So, if an Ms64+ doesn't have a CAC and it has been to CAC, CAC doesn't consider it to be a high end MS64.
It's true that CAC ignores the +
Now curious if CAC pays more for a + coin they stickered over a non + coin beaned the same whole grade?
That would shed a bit more light on the whole + grading system valuations.
Especially since a prominent dealer who can generally sell ice cubes to Eskimos mentions being unable to sell + coins to customers.
Since CAC ignores the plus, I think it’s safe to say that barring very unusual circumstances, they don't pay extra for plus coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I bet CAC dealers charge extra for plus coins in most cases.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I bet non-CAC dealers and collectors do, too. If a plus coin has a meaningfully higher price guide value - and many of them do - sellers will likely ask higher prices for them. I hope you weren’t trying to make this about CAC dealers.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What I read between the lines in that article is if a prospective buyer knows the coin sold previously in a lesser grade for less money, they see it as the grading game and choose not to play. I see nothing wrong with their decision especially if the money asked is multiples of the previous sale price at the lowest grade.
All I care about is the coin. Here’s the most recent “+” graded widget I picked up from the post office yesterday. Found it while trolling on the newly listed eBay items as a cheap BIN.
As others have said, the reason people are probably shying away from “+” graded coins is that they’re priced too high.
I personally think “+” grades are cop outs by the services since they also don’t assign “-“ grades as well. It reduces their exposure and let’s them split the difference.
That’s a beauty!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've never bought a "+" coin, but I have paid higher for a few "+" graded baseball cards. I'm considering the "+" to be equivalent to a half-grade in card terms such as a PSA 8 vs. PSA 8.5. Of course only if the price is reasonable between the price range of a PSA 8 vs. a PSA 9
I mentioned this before when the + grades were first coming out. Could a + really be a minus. And by that I mean what if a coin was so close to say a 65 before + grading that they gave it the 65. Now that they have + grading that same coin would be a 64+. Something to think about.
I wouldn’t think it’s safe to say that at all. The + has a higher market value and a higher liquidity in most cases
I don’t think CAC bids more for plus coins or that they stretch over their bid prices in order to buy plus grade widgets. If a coin is particularly rare and/or has a much higher plus grade value, I believe they will pay more, however. Hence my “barring very unusual circumstances” in my previous post. Perhaps I should have omitted the word “very”. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I buy plus coins. when its time to sell, I don't get the usual "well that's not a 65" mumbo jumbo. It removes that from the conversation. But, it doesn't mean I will get more money just that it may sell faster as a nice 65. Margins may be a little thinner..
I always presumed that TPGs numbered coins sequentially, as they were graded. Is this incorrect?
The 65 has a lower ID than the 64+
PERCEPTION !!
Coins are 99.44% perception.
Oh, and registry competition.
Uh... yep.
If I see a + coin that deserves the + and I like it as graded it will not slow me down to purchase it nor will the price. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes. Aren’t ya glad we’re not all the same😉
Crack out. It's the risk you take.
I only own five plus graded coins. This isn't by design.....it's just how it worked out. If I see a PLUS graded coin and I like it, then yes, I'll pay extra for it. If it is CAC stickered, then all the better. And, of course, if I like the CAC PLUS better than the non CAC PLUS; I will pay more for it, too.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Most likely the seller of + coin has added too much premium for the +. Otherwise who cares if there is a + or not if the price is right?
its about the coins with that luster. thanks.
The "+" coins get a lot of looks at shows and sell very quickly.
That's the invoice number. They don't need to be submitted sequentially. It is always possible a later number could be submitted before an earlier number.
I'm a fan of plus coins, my latest sub actually had two in it.
Collector, occasional seller
I typically don't care for them, but I did end up buying one. They are usually a lot higher in price which can be a turn off.
Of course if sending coins in and getting them that way, it's probably pretty sweet.
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It's about the coins dammit... Seems several folks here didn't get the memo
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I got the memo....actually I think I wrote it.
The above is typically what I see, and I won't pay that kind of premium for a coin. I get the impression that the same guy whl is asking 5 money for a 4 + coin won't offer you much of a premium for the same coin over one in a straight 4 holder.
The only + coins I own are upgrades which didn't get to to the next numerical grade.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
>
I like the + because it gives us average Joes a fighting chance. Historically, it was hard to get + money for a PQ coin. Yes, it's piggish to ask for next-grade-up $, but you can walk from that. Typically, if the + is a significant $ increment up, that usually means the pops are starting to get thin. One must determine if they agree that the coin is PQ. Our hosts have a pretty good track record. If people want to pass on the + and try and find a PQ coin in a non-+ holder for non-PQ $, good luck...you may be searching a while (especially in higher grades with lower pops). JMHO.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
With "grades" being nothing but opinions, and unstable ones at that, one must look at the coin through their own experience to determine if some "grade" or added symbol is meaningful or capricious.
People who play the upgrade game notice that it is a lot easier to get a plus than to take a plus to the next higher grade. Upgraders love the plus, but they prefer to make them, not buy them. In almost every issue there is a grade where the plus confers enough extra "value" to make it worth trying.
Collecting coins is about coins... Nothing less. It becomes more for quality and quality should not be as subjective as it appears. Think about what currently are the big questions asked here and elsewhere:
TPG Holder?
Did it CAC ?
So... My questions are about what matters and cannot be fixed with a resubmission...
Does the coin have the look?
Does the coin have original skin?
Is the coin quality for the grade?
Is the eye appeal a timeless look or a look for the moment?
Seems the wrong questions appear more often than what is reasonable to promote the long term stability of the hobby.
Stupid money chasing certain coins labeled today as condition rarities is not helpful. I should resubmit my 1938-s Merc.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Because the next grade up from the +, is still relatively affordable. The only reason I have ever seen.
This, although I can see other reasons why some might avoid + graded coins
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