@cagcrisp said:
All the Fixes are In. In about 3 hours the Mint will announce the price of $1,987.50. Anyone want to guess the last time the United States Mint priced ANY single offering over $1,987.50?
@cagcrisp said:
All the Fixes are In. In about 3 hours the Mint will announce the price of $1,987.50. Anyone want to guess the last time the United States Mint priced ANY single offering over $1,987.50?
Proof AGEs in 2010?
On April 10th, 2013, Goldman Sachs said Short Gold. Gold was approximately $1,585.00/oz. at the time of the call. The Gold Proof Buffalo hit its High (Not All time High) two weeks prior. We have yet to get back to the pre-Goldman call price...
The 2011 1 oz proof platinum eagle was $2,092 each from the mint for a portion of the year and within a few months the price has dropped by almost $400 for the same coin from the mint. Timing is everything.
There once was a time I blindly bought ALL Platinum issues from the Mint. My History only goes back to 2008 but I'm on record as having paid $2299.95 for a 1 oz Proof Issue on 5-9-08.
I'm a bit ill remembering those days. Don't hardly buy anything these days.
@FullStrike said:
There once was a time I blindly bought ALL Platinum issues from the Mint. My History only goes back to 2008 but I'm on record as having paid $2299.95 for a 1 oz Proof Issue on 5-9-08.
I'm a bit ill remembering those days. Don't hardly buy anything these days.
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
Hooo-Humm PASS. Have fun with these tomorrow, kids! Of course now the Mint will short strike these at 10k ....
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
Sooo.... they released the last two versions at about the same time of year the past two years. It has nothing to do with melt price, everything to do with when they already planned to release it..
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
THIS!
I'm not sure a $2000 price tag incentivizes MORE people to buy. They get the same $400 premium either way. So, all things being equal, do you think they sell more at $800 ($400 Pd+ $400 premium) or $1937 ($1500 Pd + $400 premium)?
I, for one, would buy one at $800 or $1000. I wouldn't touch one at $1937.
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
THIS!
I'm not sure a $2000 price tag incentivizes MORE people to buy. They get the same $400 premium either way. So, all things being equal, do you think they sell more at $800 ($400 Pd+ $400 premium) or $1937 ($1500 Pd + $400 premium)?
I, for one, would buy one at $800 or $1000. I wouldn't touch one at $1937.
From a Mint profit point of view, the Mint would sell more coins at a lower price point and more Total profit would be generated at a lower price point unless the entire mintage is sold...
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
I have a very difficult time pulling the trigger on buy gold at current spot around $1500, hoping for at least $50-100 dip; so I can't justify 2K with 25% premium! Ouch!!!
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
I don’t understand the mint schedule being a roulette part? Spot pricing is Not used. LBMA pricing is used. There is no inventory cost because the Mint doesn’t own the palladium. It is leased entirely. Whether someone buys in a bull market or a bear market doesn’t have any effect on the Mint. The Mint has a markup no matter what...
Sorry, but the big players can buy as many as they want Friday 12 noon EST. No reason to pay extra for your quick first day order this time .
I believe this has very low flip potential unless some unexpected event happens with quality, shipping delays, some error on a die, palladium price goes up even more if Russia refuses to sell for a while in a EU or US trade or military spat, or somethingelse.
I will be surprised if more than 20,000 sell before they start pushing the next version sometime in 2020.
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
>
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
Anyone who is buying this coin as a bullion play with a 30% markup to bullion value is an idiot. This is a numismatic coin. Period. You want to play with Pd as bullion, buy Pd futures.
I'd also point out that the one week delay, for whatever reason it happened was maybe a $50 move in price of a $1500 commodity - that did not change anything about the bull/bear scenario.
There is simply no good business reason to delay hoping for a $50 move in a $2000 coin when the Mint can't capture that $50 move and that $50 move likely doesn't deter or entice anyone to buy anything.
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
I don’t understand the mint schedule being a roulette part? Spot pricing is Not used. LBMA pricing is used. There is no inventory cost because the Mint doesn’t own the palladium. It is leased entirely. Whether someone buys in a bull market or a bear market doesn’t have any effect on the Mint. The Mint has a markup no matter what...
He appears to be suggesting - once he learned they don't get the extra $50 - that a $50 move in Pd prices is going to entice people to pay $1987 for $1550 worth of Pd because PRICES ARE SURGING! Whereas last week, they weren't going to pay $1937 for $1500 worth of Pd because PRICES ARE FALLING!
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
>
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
Anyone who is buying this coin as a bullion play with a 30% markup to bullion value is an idiot. This is a numismatic coin. Period. You want to play with Pd as bullion, buy Pd futures.
I'd also point out that the one week delay, for whatever reason it happened was maybe a $50 move in price of a $1500 commodity - that did not change anything about the bull/bear scenario.
There is simply no good business reason to delay hoping for a $50 move in a $2000 coin when the Mint can't capture that $50 move and that $50 move likely doesn't deter or entice anyone to buy anything.
If I really wanted this coin but didn't want to spend 25-30% markup, I would wait for it on the secondary market (ebay), where sellers and buyers often use spot price on deciding to make a purchase (a lot of bottom feeders) which ultimately drives the price down. Generally, first few weeks or months there is interest and sometimes more of a frenzy, then market lowers and price stabilizes.
This coin won’t do well on the second hand market because when this gets released and (when) it sells out, it will be flooding the market with half being 2019’s. It just doesn’t make sense to buy unless your a collector of them
Young Numismatist/collector 75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting! instagram.com/klnumismatics
Sorry, but the big players can buy as many as they want Friday 12 noon EST. No reason to pay extra for your quick first day order this time .
I believe this has very low flip potential unless some unexpected event happens with quality, shipping delays, some error on a die, palladium price goes up even more if Russia refuses to sell for a while in a EU or US trade or military spat, or somethingelse.
I will be surprised if more than 20,000 sell before they start pushing the next version sometime in 2020.
hat did not change anything about the bull/bear scenario.
There is simply no good business reason to delay hoping for a $50 move in a $2000 coin when the Mint can't capture that $50 move and that $50 move likely doesn't deter or entice anyone to buy anything.
If I really wanted this coin but didn't want to spend 25-30% markup, I would wait for it on the secondary market (ebay), where sellers and buyers often use spot price on deciding to make a purchase (a lot of bottom feeders) which ultimately drives the price down. Generally, first few weeks or months there is interest and sometimes more of a frenzy, then market lowers and price stabilizes.
That is generally true. It has not (yet) been true of the 1st 2 palladium issues that still have huge premiums.
But I'm not sure what this has to do with your original suggestion that something nefarious was going on with the 1 week delay in release.
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
I don’t understand the mint schedule being a roulette part? Spot pricing is Not used. LBMA pricing is used. There is no inventory cost because the Mint doesn’t own the palladium. It is leased entirely. Whether someone buys in a bull market or a bear market doesn’t have any effect on the Mint. The Mint has a markup no matter what...
He appears to be suggesting - once he learned they don't get the extra $50 - that a $50 move in Pd prices is going to entice people to pay $1987 for $1550 worth of Pd because PRICES ARE SURGING! Whereas last week, they weren't going to pay $1937 for $1500 worth of Pd because PRICES ARE FALLING!
Well...A person could make that argument. Not a very good one. Palladium has Moved $150/oz. since the Mint put it on the schedule. That movement sure has Not enticed me to pay $150 more than I would 6 weeks ago. Buying High and Hoping for Higher is not my favorite trade...
@IAMMore said:
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
I don’t understand the mint schedule being a roulette part? Spot pricing is Not used. LBMA pricing is used. There is no inventory cost because the Mint doesn’t own the palladium. It is leased entirely. Whether someone buys in a bull market or a bear market doesn’t have any effect on the Mint. The Mint has a markup no matter what...
I mean that mint schedule is predetermined, not a coincidence. Based on what you say, and I'm no expert on how exactly mint works - never looked into it, other then making comparison to regular business, it seems like for the purpose of mint the price of palladium doesn't matter, and if that's the case then comparing it to spot is a moot point.
I don’t understand the mint schedule being a roulette part? Spot pricing is Not used. LBMA pricing is used. There is no inventory cost because the Mint doesn’t own the palladium. It is leased entirely. Whether someone buys in a bull market or a bear market doesn’t have any effect on the Mint. The Mint has a markup no matter what...
I mean that mint schedule is predetermined, not a coincidence. Based on what you say, and I'm no expert on how exactly mint works - never looked into it, other then making comparison to regular business, it seems like for the purpose of mint the price of palladium doesn't matter, and if that's the case then comparing it to spot is a moot point.
The Mint schedule does change. It's not predetermined far in advance for some issues and it does sometimes change. They just recently scheduled the Innovation $ release only a few weeks before release. And they released the 2018 Innovation $s in August 2019 because they forgot to even put them on the 2019 schedule
hat did not change anything about the bull/bear scenario.
There is simply no good business reason to delay hoping for a $50 move in a $2000 coin when the Mint can't capture that $50 move and that $50 move likely doesn't deter or entice anyone to buy anything.
If I really wanted this coin but didn't want to spend 25-30% markup, I would wait for it on the secondary market (ebay), where sellers and buyers often use spot price on deciding to make a purchase (a lot of bottom feeders) which ultimately drives the price down. Generally, first few weeks or months there is interest and sometimes more of a frenzy, then market lowers and price stabilizes.
That is generally true. It has not (yet) been true of the 1st 2 palladium issues that still have huge premiums.
But I'm not sure what this has to do with your original suggestion that something nefarious was going on with the 1 week delay in release.
I was able to buy 2nd issue PCGS FS 70 on ebay 2-3 weeks after release for $1750. I returned it bc the coin had a lot of small hair on it!!!
ginal suggestion that something nefarious was going on with the 1 week delay in release.
I was able to buy 2nd issue PCGS FS 70 on ebay 2-3 weeks after release for $1750. I returned it bc the coin had a lot of small hair on it!!!
That's still $500 over bullion value and several hundred over the issue price from the Mint last year. I'm a little skeptical about the 2-3 weeks as raw coins were still selling for close to $2000 a good month after release last year. Still not sure what your point is relative to your initial point.
I'm waiting to buy them for under $1000. Might take 10 years, but I'm patient.
At the end of the day if you're looking at it from rational POV (not numismatist) you have to take consideration into spot and where you see palladium going short-near-long term and geopolitical constraints of it coming mostly from Russia and political environment with sanctions on Russia, with focus on how long you plan on keeping it and then selling. At least, that's how I look at it, because numismatics are very tricky and spot is what it is.
ginal suggestion that something nefarious was going on with the 1 week delay in release.
I was able to buy 2nd issue PCGS FS 70 on ebay 2-3 weeks after release for $1750. I returned it bc the coin had a lot of small hair on it!!!
That's still $500 over the issue price from the Mint last year. Not sure what your point is.
Go look at what the coin sells for now and you'll get my point. I don't care, so long I can make money on top of what I paid for, i.e. it was worth the wait and purchase on the secondary, that is if I kept it!
Couldn't agree more. But who wants to buy coins and lose money while doing it? I mean, isn't it beautiful thing when you buy fair, see numismatic and/or spot value appreciate, and sell anytime you feel like with profit.
@IAMMore said:
Couldn't agree more. But who wants to buy coins and lose money while doing it? I mean, isn't it beautiful thing when you buy fair, see numismatic and/or spot value appreciate, and sell anytime you feel like with profit.
Almost never happened with any mint product.
I firmly believe you should only buy coins planning to lose money. They are not an investment.
@IAMMore said:
Couldn't agree more. But who wants to buy coins and lose money while doing it? I mean, isn't it beautiful thing when you buy fair, see numismatic and/or spot value appreciate, and sell anytime you feel like with profit.
Almost never happened with any mint product.
I firmly believe you should only buy coins planning to lose money. They are not an investment.
haha - I hear ya but there is another way, consider 2018 25$ GE with low mintage; those who went in on this coin at the right time based on sales report and spot, reaped 100%+ profits; I did on 2 of them. If you buy the right coin at the right time, you can sell with big profit or keep. Either way you are making money. That is how I like to invest in US Mint bullion
I don’t even bother opening my Mint coins I buy. If I decide to get one I might open it. I just Label the outside and toss them in my overflow safe. I guess I just buy them cause I can. It’s a sickness what can I say!
I don’t even bother opening my Mint coins I buy. If I decide to get one I might open it. I just Label the outside and toss them in my overflow safe. I guess I just buy them cause I can. It’s a sickness what can I say!
If I did that, my wife would drive me crazy. I try to buy 2-4 at good deal, sell 3 with some profit and keep 1. I have a tiger wife!
Comments
Proof AGEs in 2010?
On April 10th, 2013, Goldman Sachs said Short Gold. Gold was approximately $1,585.00/oz. at the time of the call. The Gold Proof Buffalo hit its High (Not All time High) two weeks prior. We have yet to get back to the pre-Goldman call price...
The 2006 AGE Anniversary Sets were $2600.
The 2007 Platinum Anniversary set was almost this high at $1950.
I bought a 2012 gold buffalo in Jan-2013 for $1,960 from the mint so I learned my lesson there, easy pass for me at this price
Buffalo Nickel Short Set 1934-38 67% Complete
Is your alarm set so you don't miss the 15 minute sell out?
My alarm is set for the HH limit coming off so I can buy out the rest of the run...
Yep, But that was a 3 coin set. I actually bought one of these, but my order history only goes back to 2008...
United States Mint Announces American Eagle 20th Anniversary Sets
American Eagle 20th Anniversary Gold Coin Set
Three coins, one each, one oz.: proof, reverse proof and uncirculated $2,610 10,000
Edit: The 2019 4-coin AGE proof set is currently $3,477.50, if we want something current...
The 2011 1 oz proof platinum eagle was $2,092 each from the mint for a portion of the year and within a few months the price has dropped by almost $400 for the same coin from the mint. Timing is everything.
For the record...
The Year's not over. Wait until you see the price of the Innovation $ proof set...
The Eagles price is two fitty short of me pulling the early trigger.
I am still for SALE?
There once was a time I blindly bought ALL Platinum issues from the Mint. My History only goes back to 2008 but I'm on record as having paid $2299.95 for a 1 oz Proof Issue on 5-9-08.
I'm a bit ill remembering those days. Don't hardly buy anything these days.
Ouch
You nailed it. Exactly. What would the price have been last week if they had kept the original release date?
Damn, 2K for Palladium coin in OGP? I don't think so! Palladium price is near all time highs and it's no coincidence the mint is releasing it just now. The mintage of 30K is also not that impressive to make it worth it IMO. Would I have a look at it if the price dropped on the secondary, sure, but even so - it would have to be a good deal.
It kind of is a coincidence that they are releasing it now. Based on the way they buy the palladium, it makes no difference whether the price of palladium is $100 or $2000, they only get the premium over melt.
There are no coincidences in the business world; and the Mint must adhere to a schedule based on certain factors. It only makes sense for them to release it when the price is high, to incentivize people to buy, even if in your assessment it doesn't impact their bottom line. When you run a business, you don't exactly make money from overstocking and not selling well; in fact, there is a cost of storage and you may be losing money.
Hooo-Humm PASS. Have fun with these tomorrow, kids! Of course now the Mint will short strike these at 10k ....
$1,937.50.
Sooo.... they released the last two versions at about the same time of year the past two years. It has nothing to do with melt price, everything to do with when they already planned to release it..
That is just not a True statement. The Mint leases the palladium until the sale is made and they pay the lessor the same day the sale is made. There is no incentive to release when the price is high unless the lease is ended...
THIS!
I'm not sure a $2000 price tag incentivizes MORE people to buy. They get the same $400 premium either way. So, all things being equal, do you think they sell more at $800 ($400 Pd+ $400 premium) or $1937 ($1500 Pd + $400 premium)?
I, for one, would buy one at $800 or $1000. I wouldn't touch one at $1937.
From a Mint profit point of view, the Mint would sell more coins at a lower price point and more Total profit would be generated at a lower price point unless the entire mintage is sold...
And what does that have to do with the mint schedule which is not a roulette, spot price or inventory cost? Neither of which are affected by what you just said. Would someone rather pay 2K for 1 oz palladium coin when it's in a bull market or bear market?
I guess I am still deciding if I want to buy one.
I have a very difficult time pulling the trigger on buy gold at current spot around $1500, hoping for at least $50-100 dip; so I can't justify 2K with 25% premium! Ouch!!!
You’re > @IAMMore said:
I don’t understand the mint schedule being a roulette part? Spot pricing is Not used. LBMA pricing is used. There is no inventory cost because the Mint doesn’t own the palladium. It is leased entirely. Whether someone buys in a bull market or a bear market doesn’t have any effect on the Mint. The Mint has a markup no matter what...
Sorry, but the big players can buy as many as they want Friday 12 noon EST. No reason to pay extra for your quick first day order this time
.
I believe this has very low flip potential unless some unexpected event happens with quality, shipping delays, some error on a die, palladium price goes up even more if Russia refuses to sell for a while in a EU or US trade or military spat, or somethingelse.
I will be surprised if more than 20,000 sell before they start pushing the next version sometime in 2020.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
>
Anyone who is buying this coin as a bullion play with a 30% markup to bullion value is an idiot. This is a numismatic coin. Period. You want to play with Pd as bullion, buy Pd futures.
I'd also point out that the one week delay, for whatever reason it happened was maybe a $50 move in price of a $1500 commodity - that did not change anything about the bull/bear scenario.
There is simply no good business reason to delay hoping for a $50 move in a $2000 coin when the Mint can't capture that $50 move and that $50 move likely doesn't deter or entice anyone to buy anything.
He appears to be suggesting - once he learned they don't get the extra $50 - that a $50 move in Pd prices is going to entice people to pay $1987 for $1550 worth of Pd because PRICES ARE SURGING! Whereas last week, they weren't going to pay $1937 for $1500 worth of Pd because PRICES ARE FALLING!
If I really wanted this coin but didn't want to spend 25-30% markup, I would wait for it on the secondary market (ebay), where sellers and buyers often use spot price on deciding to make a purchase (a lot of bottom feeders) which ultimately drives the price down. Generally, first few weeks or months there is interest and sometimes more of a frenzy, then market lowers and price stabilizes.
This coin won’t do well on the second hand market because when this gets released and (when) it sells out, it will be flooding the market with half being 2019’s. It just doesn’t make sense to buy unless your a collector of them
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Agree
hat did not change anything about the bull/bear scenario.
That is generally true. It has not (yet) been true of the 1st 2 palladium issues that still have huge premiums.
But I'm not sure what this has to do with your original suggestion that something nefarious was going on with the 1 week delay in release.
Well...A person could make that argument. Not a very good one. Palladium has Moved $150/oz. since the Mint put it on the schedule. That movement sure has Not enticed me to pay $150 more than I would 6 weeks ago. Buying High and Hoping for Higher is not my favorite trade...
I mean that mint schedule is predetermined, not a coincidence. Based on what you say, and I'm no expert on how exactly mint works - never looked into it, other then making comparison to regular business, it seems like for the purpose of mint the price of palladium doesn't matter, and if that's the case then comparing it to spot is a moot point.
The Mint schedule does change. It's not predetermined far in advance for some issues and it does sometimes change. They just recently scheduled the Innovation $ release only a few weeks before release. And they released the 2018 Innovation $s in August 2019 because they forgot to even put them on the 2019 schedule
I was able to buy 2nd issue PCGS FS 70 on ebay 2-3 weeks after release for $1750. I returned it bc the coin had a lot of small hair on it!!!
ginal suggestion that something nefarious was going on with the 1 week delay in release.
That's still $500 over bullion value and several hundred over the issue price from the Mint last year. I'm a little skeptical about the 2-3 weeks as raw coins were still selling for close to $2000 a good month after release last year. Still not sure what your point is relative to your initial point.
I'm waiting to buy them for under $1000. Might take 10 years, but I'm patient.
At the end of the day if you're looking at it from rational POV (not numismatist) you have to take consideration into spot and where you see palladium going short-near-long term and geopolitical constraints of it coming mostly from Russia and political environment with sanctions on Russia, with focus on how long you plan on keeping it and then selling. At least, that's how I look at it, because numismatics are very tricky and spot is what it is.
Go look at what the coin sells for now and you'll get my point. I don't care, so long I can make money on top of what I paid for, i.e. it was worth the wait and purchase on the secondary, that is if I kept it!
If you want to make money, don't buy this coin.
Couldn't agree more. But who wants to buy coins and lose money while doing it? I mean, isn't it beautiful thing when you buy fair, see numismatic and/or spot value appreciate, and sell anytime you feel like with profit.
Almost never happened with any mint product.
I firmly believe you should only buy coins planning to lose money. They are not an investment.
haha - I hear ya but there is another way, consider 2018 25$ GE with low mintage; those who went in on this coin at the right time based on sales report and spot, reaped 100%+ profits; I did on 2 of them. If you buy the right coin at the right time, you can sell with big profit or keep. Either way you are making money. That is how I like to invest in US Mint bullion
I don’t even bother opening my Mint coins I buy. If I decide to get one I might open it. I just Label the outside and toss them in my overflow safe. I guess I just buy them cause I can. It’s a sickness what can I say!
If I did that, my wife would drive me crazy. I try to buy 2-4 at good deal, sell 3 with some profit and keep 1. I have a tiger wife!
I'm passing this time at 30,000 mintage
The cheapest price for 70 on Ebay is @$2600! Ouch!! No lo creo...