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Scoping out the competition...
MrEureka
Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
Depending on what you are considering to collect, and at what level, it can be very helpful to figure out IN ADVANCE who you would be competing with. Can you illustrate this concept by sharing your own experiences?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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I generally try to understand my competition on coins in my space in the US auctions and often times that competition are the dealers in the space who specialize in high end Latina American type. I often partner with those same folks (Thanks MrE & CRO) to create the win-win of my higher than wholesale bid and commission while eliminating a potential competitor.
Latin American Collection
Back about 1990 I was considering getting involved in collecting National Bank Notes. One of the states I was considering was Wisconsin. At that time Chet Krause and the a couple, Herb & Martha, from the Aurora, Il area were highly competitive for such notes. There was no way I could have been competitive with them so I dropped the idea. I never did buy one.
LOL! No matter what ever you collect, there will always be that thorn of competition! I just heard a rumor at the last FUN show my major competitor has spent 100K on grading fees.
Been there and done that several times in my collecting career.
I was an avid collector of Russian coins before they took off. When they did no mater how much I bid, I was always out bid. That prompted me to sell my collection for an outrageous profit!
I've heard of a group of dealers deciding who would win what in an auction so as not to drive the cost up. Isn't that considered "rigging" an auction?
I think the government defines that as collusion. It happens, but if I'm the consignor, I wouldn't be overly fond of the practice.
To the OP's question, I guess it depends on how competitive you are. If being the top dog is important, you better have deep pockets and buy whatever is graded the highest, even if you don't particularly care for it.
When I had completed the #9 set of Peace dollars I determined that going any higher would require huge investments for small improvements in actual eye appeal or quality. I had the opportunity to see several coins in sets higher than mine and in many cases I preferred my own coins.
In some cases the best sets aren't in any Registry or even well-known in the collecting universe. The competition you know about might not be the only competition. In my realm, knowing the general market is way more important than knowing the identities and means of the actual competitors. If you're collecting stuff that only comes around once in a generation, it's obviously more important.
It's my understanding that the #1 type set collection on the NGC registry is owned by a former head of the Frito-Lay Corporation. He has more than double the number of registry that the #2 guy has, and I have been #3 for years. I don't think that either of us is going to catch him in our lifetimes. His resources are simply overwelming.
There will always be bigger fish in the ocean unless, perhaps you are Mr. Hanson. That's just a fact life, and if you let it overwelm you, it will ruin the hobby for you.
2000 or so I was bidding on rare record albums. Very small and passionate market. Some of the last second Ebay snipes were insane.
Has nothing to do with what I said
Latin American Collection
I do size up the competition at local auctions.
If certain people are there I know I have no shot at specific types. They will win at all cost, no matter. They have no qualms overpaying.
Certain others I can spar with.
General collecting?
At my level it would be a waste of time.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I guess I got the wrong impression from what you posted: "I often partner with those same folks."
I studied the 1937 mint set contenders before deciding I could get to the top for a reasonable cost. Enjoyed two years at the top until some guy named Hansen came along. Sold and moved on to something else.
No it is called using an auction representative
Latin American Collection
After first time I submitted a coin I got excited about it and wanted to grade the morgan set my great-grandparents left to me, so I looked at the set registry and almost shat myself. I only submitted the key dates so far. Still haven't decided if I will submit the rest or just leave them in the dansco album. I did make top set for the Palau Skulls, of course there was no competition at the time as I am the one who requested the set be added to the registry. Hansen please don't take that away.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/6602
I never consider this, I set a price I'm willing to pay and if the coin goes for more there will be another someday. Of course I don't look at many 5 figure and never any 6 figure coins so I'm sure that this thought process would be more important at those levels.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I think about who I’m competing with a lot. Sometimes there’s no real competition and I can win easily, sometimes I need to stretch to win and sometimes I’ll only win if others are out to lunch. The most interesting ones are where I need to stretch where a strong bid may not necessarily be a winning bid.
As a dealer, I know exactly who my competition is.
I have complete respect for my competition and do coin deals with them.
That would be the smart way to go about things, but I'm a contrarian. I only bid against Isaac Rudman once, that I know of, and he was able to get a lot that I won reopened for bidding. I was on-line and was no longer following the auction after my lot closed. He, or his representative, was at the floor. I got the last laugh (and realized who I lost that lot to) when his pillar dollars came up for auction and I was able to acquire that same coin for less than my original bid.
97.627% +/- of the coin collecting population would be my competition. So, no, I wouldn't waste my time trying to figure out who would bid against me. Figure out what your max is, and don't deviate.
Ok, ok, I know I have no place commenting in this post! Just thought a little levity was warranted!
Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!
I just switched to buying common circulated Swiss 2 franc coins that sell in the $5-$25 range. No need for holders and there is no one else bidding on them. This is my kind of collecting!
It used to be Cary and Darrell for the circ Barber Halves.
I have found something odd about competitors: They abound when you are trying to buy, but they disappear when you are selling.
I know who many of the competing collectors in my narrow field are, and we have friendly if occasionally competitive relationships. It did however take years of collecting till I learned who the competition was. I don’t think I could have anticipated the competition before I started on my area of interest. In any case, the names of competing collectors may change in the years it takes to become super serious and dedicated to the pursuit of one field.
true confessions
I wonder why that could be. Perhaps certain sellers have a following?
Obviously, the competition won’t matter much unless you’re collecting at the highest level. But at the highest level, it’s very different. For example, I would not have chosen to shoot for the finest Seated Dollar set while TDN was still actively doing the same. Today, I might be encouraged to collect certain colonials that are currently undercollected.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I feel so stupid.
It should have been very obvious to me that's what you were actually doing. Probably a good way to save some money and keep the price of the lot lower.
I am more concerned about understanding the series, the surviving population and how often the rarities and/or condition rarities surface. There are series I like that I collect and I will not likely be in a position to complete them... And I am okay with that. Funny you mentioned Seated Dollars. A set does not have to be the finest...there is something to be said for assembling quality for the grade which is something to strive for but even that can be easier said than done.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
With my budget I am generally competing with the homeless guy living on the street.
I collect prints, engravings, dies, tokens, medals, and books related to Christian Gobrecht. I'm the only buyer for a lot of the stuff, which is the ideal situation. I've gotten run up on a few special items, but that's the price of admission......
Ya wanna know tuff? Try finding a good coin high grade 69 or 70 and get for under grading fees and such. There’s a group of people who compete, keep track and maybe even work together 🙀jzyskowski Grandam you would be welcomed into this group of 2-digit wonders 👍🏼
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Yep, good to know. One of my early bidding lessons was for the obverse die you won for the following medal in my collection. I still think about it as a missed opportunity, but it's a good lesson as I just picked up some other rarities. Let me know if you ever decide to sell