James Murdock Jr., Die Sinker of Cincinnati

Zoins

Anyone follow James Murdock Jr.? He was a die sinker in Cincinnati. I just ran across him as he was the issuer of a Columbian Exposition store card I had picked up.

David Schenkman had a good article on him in the May 2018 issue of The Numismatist. Here's a photo of James Murdock Jr. from the article:

James Murdock Jr. Ohio Die Sinker by David Schenkman

• http://digitaleditions.walsworthprintgroup.com/publication/?i=506535&p=41#{%22page%22:40,%22issue_id%22:506535}

His company, Murdock Stamp and Speciality Company, was acquired by Wiley W. Osborne's company, later known as Osborne Coinage Company, which claims to be America's oldest private mint via it's acquisition of Z. Bisbee Co.: https://www.osbornecoin.com/.

• https://www.osbornecoin.com/a-history-of-excellence/
• https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v06n43a04.html

Zoins

Of interest, he had a business in seals as well. The image below is from the ANA magazine. I wonder if he made his own seal presses like Merriam?

Richard D. Sheaff has a nice image of an envelope with another seal press here:

http://www.sheaff-ephemera.com/list/advertising-covers/james-murdock-jr.html

An image of one of his seal presses is available here:

https://www.sealpressinformation.com/percussion-presses.html

Unknown

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ricko

I have been watching the antique shops here for seal presses... no luck so far.... Would really like to find an ornate one such as have been shown here from time to time.... Cheers, RickO

Zoins

Here's a photo of an envelope with one of Murdock's Seal Presses from Schenkman's article:

Pioneer1

I don't see Cincinnati heavily represented in the so-called dollar book. With that said, the medal below is edge-marked JAS. MURDOCK JR. DIE SINKER CINCINNATI. This medal is from the 1888 Ohio Valley & Central States Centennial Exposition held in Cincinnati OH, which celebrated the 100th anniversary of the settlement of the Northwest Territory created in 1787. The medal obverse reads RUBEN R. SPRINGER - CINCINNATI'S MOST CHERISHED CITIZEN-NEVER WEARIES IN WELL DOING. Ruben Springer was a partner in Taylor, Kilgour & Co who were wholesale grocers, and he was also a major contributor to the Cincinnati Music Hall. The reverse is the same as HK-146.

Zoins

@Pioneer1 said:
I don't see Cincinnati heavily represented in the so-called dollar book. With that said, the medal below is edge-marked JAS. MURDOCK JR. DIE SINKER CINCINNATI. This medal is from the 1888 Ohio Valley & Central States Centennial Exposition held in Cincinnati OH, which celebrated the 100th anniversary of the settlement of the Northwest Territory created in 1787. The medal obverse reads RUBEN R. SPRINGER - CINCINNATI'S MOST CHERISHED CITIZEN-NEVER WEARIES IN WELL DOING. Ruben Springer was a partner in Taylor, Kilgour & Co who were wholesale grocers, and he was also a major contributor to the Cincinnati Music Hall. The reverse is the same as HK-146.

Amazing HK-146A Bob! It has a wonderful design and commemorates a nice event. Are there any period pieces on this event? One thing I like to find is contemporary newspaper articles on events.

It's great that this piece and the HK-146 are both edge marked with James Murdock's company!

HK-146 seems to be very rare as I can't find any in the WorthPoint/eBay, HA, or Stack's archives.

Pioneer1

Pioneer1

This Murdock piece from John Raymond's unlisted SCDs (109c):

https://www.socalleddollar.com/UnlistedImages/ohio-valley-cincinnati-1888-exposition-medal.jpg

is important as the reverse is a Murdock engraving that is paired with other obverses; when you see that reverse, it's likely the SCD/medal is by Murdock...

Zoins

Great stuff Bob! I love the eagle drum, flags and cannonball motif from the Civil War era. It's great to see it on a much larger canvas.

Here's another 1888 Centennial Exposition So-Called Dollar done by James Murdock I found via Google. This seems unlisted in both HK and JR, so did I just make a new So-Called Dollar "discovery"? It's obvious this piece is known, but am I the first one to connect this unholed specimen with So-Called Dollars? Hopefully, Jeff and Bill will be able to give it a SH number. It seems really rare for this to come unholed as is shown here.

Nice centennial exposition medal / coin / token of Cincinnati and The settlement of the Ohio River Valley. July 4th to October 27, 1888. Obverse, image of an explorer. Reverse, image of old Fort Washington. Octagonal shape approximately 31mm flat side 34 mm corner to corner and 17 grams. No Reserve

Source: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1888-cincinnati-ohio-valley-1882836553

Brian S. Holt as a NGC MS62 where he identifies the piece as a Murdoch piece from the text:

Brian S. Holt wrote:
1888 Ohio Central States Exposition Medal / NGC MS-62 BN
SKU: 1822489004
$165.00
Bronze. Octagonal. Holed as issued. Struck for the Centennial Exposition at Cincinnati, Ohio, held July 4th through October 27th, 1888 to commemorate "the settlement of the Ohio Valley and Central States". The obverse depicts a standing soldier in colonial garb with a long rifle. The reverse shows Old Fort Washington. Signed in tiny lettering at the top of the reverse by Murdock / Cincinnati and noted below to be A SOUVENIER OF THE EXPOSITION. Well struck with much of the original red retained around the devices. A few field contract marks define the grade. Quite rare.

Source: https://atgcoins.weebly.com/store/p785/1888_Ohio_Central_States_Exposition_Medal_/_NGC_MS-62_BN.html

In addition to bronze / copper, this also comes in white metal as shown here:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1888-cincinnati-ohio-centennial-517376794

Zoins

AmericasBestHistory.com has a few pieces from the expo:

https://americasbesthistory.com/wfcincinnati1888.html

Anyone know the significance of the sunrise over the hills with the two stalks in the upper left piece? I've seen this on many period pieces.

tokenpro

It's the Ohio State Seal.

In exonumia the standard measurement for octagonal pieces is from flat to flat - the above mentioned piece doesn't even reach the 32mm of a couple of pieces that were included in H&K even though the already overly expanded definition of "dollar sized" in the catalog is set at 33mm to 45mm (!), one of the major reasons that HK has always been somewhat of a mess.

Zoins

@tokenpro said:
It's the Ohio State Seal.

Good to know!

In exonumia the standard measurement for octagonal pieces is from flat to flat - the above mentioned piece doesn't even reach the 32mm of a couple of pieces that were included in H&K even though the already overly expanded definition of "dollar sized" in the catalog is set at 33mm to 45mm (!), one of the major reasons that HK has always been somewhat of a mess.

Good to know how octagonals are measured. I’m not sure I agree with it as the area covered by the face is certainly larger than a 31mm circle. I also visualize octagonals taking up space from corner to corner but it’s good to know. The 32mm HK-353 is actually one of my favorites.

tokenpro

Several of the state token catalogs (Kappen - California, etc.) along with TAMS show the standard way to measure non-round tokens from triangles to cloverleafs, shamrocks, horseshoes and all the -agonals along with the standard descriptive notation for describing and listing tokens and medals. Feel free to disagree but if you want to communicate effectively with the majority of the other collectors and dealers it is best to learn the standard terminology and descriptive tactics.

Zoins

@tokenpro said:
Several of the state token catalogs (Kappen - California, etc.) along with TAMS show the standard way to measure non-round tokens from triangles to cloverleafs, shamrocks, horseshoes and all the -agonals along with the standard descriptive notation for describing and listing tokens and medals. Feel free to disagree but if you want to communicate effectively with the majority of the other collectors and dealers it is best to learn the standard terminology and descriptive tactics.

I agree with understanding how people do measurements which is why I appreciate you posting this!

That being said the SCD cutoff may be unfairly penalizing non-circular pieces using this approach when considering area covered.

Zoins

@tokenpro said:
Several of the state token catalogs (Kappen - California, etc.) along with TAMS show the standard way to measure non-round tokens from triangles to cloverleafs, shamrocks, horseshoes and all the -agonals along with the standard descriptive notation for describing and listing tokens and medals. Feel free to disagree but if you want to communicate effectively with the majority of the other collectors and dealers it is best to learn the standard terminology and descriptive tactics.

I do love to learn

And I just learned that PCGS measures point to point!

Are we in a situation where octagonals are measured differently, with coins being measured point to point and exonumia being measured flat to flat? Perhaps the majority of coin collectors use point to point and the majority of token collectors use flat to flat?

Check this out:

• PPIE Octagonal: DIAMETER: 46.00 millimeters - https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1915-s-50-pan-pac-octagonal/7452
• PPIE Round: DIAMETER: 43.20 millimeters - https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1915-s-50-pan-pac-round/7451

tokenpro

Murdock struck many, many more tokens than medals - this instantly recognizable (and often signed) reverse die was used from shortly after the Civil War into the 1880's.

Zoins

@tokenpro said:
Murdock struck many, many more tokens than medals - this instantly recognizable (and often signed) reverse die was used from shortly after the Civil War into the 1880's.

Good to know! Is there a catalog of Murdock's work?

BillJones

Not in the best of shape, but here's one I have in my "Civil War die sinkers" group. It was listed as a Civil War token, but it's now been delisted because it was struck in 1875 or later. According to Fuld, all known examples of this piece are holed.

Zoins

@BillJones said:
Not in the best of shape, but here's one I have in my "Civil War die sinkers" group. It was listed as a Civil War token, but it's now been delisted because it was struck in 1875 or later. According to Fuld, all known examples of this piece are holed.

Nice token @BillJones! I did some quick Google searches and all the ones that I could find, which weren't that many, were holed.

Are there theories as to why this was holed? I'm guessing it wasn't holed to be suspended for wearing like medals.

Zoins

@tokenpro I did more digging into octagonal measurements and it looks like Heritage measures octagonals by point to point, at least for one 1915 Pan Pac slug lot description. I can see that there would be some confusion and inconsistency if coins are measured point-to-point and exonumia is measured flat-to-flat. Good discussion which requires more research!

Heritage wrote:
At least one published report of the coins' size is also inaccurate. In the 100 Greatest U.S. Coins, by Garrett and Guth, the diameter of both the round and octagonal types is listed as 50.8 mm. In actuality, if measured from "point-to-point," the diameter of the octagonal variety is 49 mm. The round version has a diameter of 44 mm.

Of note, these measurements differ from CoinFacts, but both have the octagonal diameter as larger than the round diameter.

Source: https://coins.ha.com/itm/commemorative-gold/classic-commemoratives/1915-s-50-panama-pacific-50-dollar-octagonal-ms65-pcgs-cac-pcgs-7452-/a/460-1046.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Zoins

@Pioneer1 said:

Great store card Bob!

It's interesting that what appears to be a smaller design is paired with a larger one. At the same time, the same approach seems to be used on this piece:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/-undated-memphis-tennessee-tn-me-70-m-wolf-trade-token-ms65-ngc-brass-26mm-plain-edge-obverse-m-wolf-25-drayage/a/416-6382.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515