Anyone receive a coin where the slab arrives shattered to pieces?

BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

I received a PCGS EF45 CAC Seated Liberty half today with the slab shattered into dozens of pieces. It was mailed in a bubble envelope with the coin inside another bubble envelope. The slab had worn clear through the inner bubble envelope. Instead of a PCGS CAC coin, I have a raw coin and a shattered slab with a CAC sticker. Fortunately, the coin doesn't appear to have been damaged. The dealer has kindly offered to resubmit the coin for grading with PCGS and CAC. Will CAC resticker a coin upon inspection if I have proof it was stickered previously?


3 rim nicks away from Good
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Comments

  • goldengolden Posts: 5,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ouch! Hope it turns out ok.

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 5,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As much effort as it takes to break these open with a hammer and vise, I would really like to know what shattered yours. First thing that came to mind is some type of ultra sonic detector that the PO uses? I would be suprised if a sorting machine could make that many pieces out of a slab but who knows?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 10,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bolivarshagnasty said:
    As much effort as it takes to break these open with a hammer and vise, I would really like to know what shattered yours. First thing that came to mind is some type of ultra sonic detector that the PO uses? I would be suprised if a sorting machine could make that many pieces out of a slab but who knows?

    It's odd, too easy the least.

    If the slab had built in stress, temperature ramping could crack it or ultrasound, maybe. But you shouldn't expect that many pieces.

    If a large mass struck it, you could get a lot of pieces, but you'd expect the bubbles to be flattened as well.

    Interesting.

  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At anytime did you see a picture of this slab on a website, etc. that would convince you (me) that it was not cracked out before you bought it ??
    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ouch!

    It was sitting at about a 30-45-60 degree angle somewhere and something was put on top of it.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's the packing look like? I see some black marks on the edge of the slab, might be from running over with a fork truck.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    @WaterSport said:
    At anytime did you see a picture of this slab on a website, etc. that would convince you (me) that it was not cracked out before you bought it ??
    WS

    I have the auction photos showing the coin in a PCGS slab with CAC approval. The seller would have to be nuts to crack it out and send a shattered slab through the mail with the coin still in the insert.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. I can imagine a number of ways this could have happened without flattening the mailer. A sudden edge load could do it. Unlikely to be a scanner or temperature change. People mail fragile things all the time and the PO knows enough to not use technology that would break too many things.

    Are you absolutely, positively certain that the coin wasn't damaged? A little scuff or bit of rim damage might be hard to spot.
    If it was damaged in any way, the correct course of action is entirely different and will likely involve an insurance company, if the shipper was fortunate enough to use one. Getting it to you in great condition is the shipper's responsibility.

    If it was me, I'd return it and get my money back - undo the deal. It's cleaner for you and the shipper can figure out what to do next. I'd also offer to buy it again when it was all fixed, and if it happened to come back at a different grade, I'd be happy to negotiate a new sale price.

    Too bad. Looks like a great coin, but it's now raw and all bets are off.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. I can imagine a number of ways this could have happened without flattening the mailer. A sudden edge load could do it. Unlikely to be a scanner or temperature change. People mail fragile things all the time and the PO knows enough to not use technology that would break too many things.

    Are you absolutely, positively certain that the coin wasn't damaged? A little scuff or bit of rim damage might be hard to spot.
    If it was damaged in any way, the correct course of action is entirely different and will likely involve an insurance company, if the shipper was fortunate enough to use one. Getting it to you in great condition is the shipper's responsibility.

    The envelope looks like it slid around on the bottom of the truck because the outline of the slab is worn right through the packaging. I'm not absolutely certain the coin wasn't damaged in some way. I've looked at it with a dissecting microscope at 7X and do not see any fresh marks or hairlines on the coin, The coin is still choice EF45.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    Looking at all the minuscule shards in your keyboard photo, it's hard to imagine anything doing this during postal processing short of being run over by a forklift or the delivery driver. Possibly after being dunked in liquid nitrogen. Good luck with the next steps.

    .... .- .--. .--. -.-- .... .- .-.. .-.. --- .-- . . -.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    It must have slid around extensively before the slab was shattered somehow. I opened the envelope and poured out plastic chips, the label & CAC sticker, and only the inner insert holding the coin.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    as a seller I do not use bubble mailers, I use small durable boxes, never had problems

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I use bubble mailers sometimes, but not on anything worth more than $50 or so.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    I use bubble mailers occasionally and reinforce them with cardboard. I had never had any problems before.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sold a platinum piece on Ebay in a PCGS holder. It arrived at the buyer with a huge spider crack on it. It was shipped in a corrugated cardboard shield, and it looked like someone had taken a ball hammer to it. I was amazed, and still don't know what kind of force would have been applied to it during shipment.

    (I took it back, got it reholdered at FUN and shipped it back to the guy. OK in the end).

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 656 ✭✭✭✭

    Typical USPS handling is able to manage Netflix's shipments of DVDS in paper envelopes with no padding at all. Whatever accident destroyed that slab would almost certainly have destroyed the box it was in, had it been in one.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 21,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Poorly packed. It needed to be in an envelope with enough padding to make it MORE than 3/4 of an inch thick. Automatic sorters will kick a thick package out of the "crushing cancelling machine". Always add enough padding to make it thick!

    bob :)

    BST deals: Dozens of buys/sells. Will provide a list upon request.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The number of pieces is incredible.

    To answer your question, no, I have never received a broken slab.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My meager Washington Quarter Registry set

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 722 ✭✭✭✭

    I'd agree with the guess that it was run over by a forklift or other heavy vehicle.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    @privatecoin said:
    I'd agree with the guess that it was run over by a forklift or other heavy vehicle.

    And yet the coin was sitting in its insert undamaged amidst all these shards of plastic. Very strange. I'm happy the coin survived if the protective covering didn't.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TommyType said:
    And here I was complaining about CHIPPED slabs...

    Me too!

  • PickwickjrPickwickjr Posts: 213 ✭✭✭✭

    I had one come in the mail broken but not like that. It was snapped in half if I remember. I think a fork truck ran mine over, I couldn’t believe it. That’s to bad

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 4,703 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will never complain about the edge seal on a holder again!

    I can't imagine anything short of a forklift running over it for plastic to shatter like that

    Collecting ... dust

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI.
  • USMarine6USMarine6 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭✭

    I had a package come back from ATS one time. It was a 95w Gold and silver eagle proof set. I was hoping for 70 across the boards of coarse but the only one that got the 70 was the 20 and the the holder was smashed to pieces.

  • rickoricko Posts: 69,503 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow... that is amazing.... I have never seen damage like that before... and the package does not appear to reflect that level of force... Cheers, RickO

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bolivarshagnasty said:
    As much effort as it takes to break these open with a hammer and vise, I would really like to know what shattered yours. First thing that came to mind is some type of ultra sonic detector that the PO uses? I would be suprised if a sorting machine could make that many pieces out of a slab but who knows?

    If that was true there should have been a LOT more coins getting cracked out en route and after paying out numerous claims the USPS should have refused to accept them. Do they even honor a claim if the coin wasn't damaged?

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭

    I've cracked my fair share of slabs and have never had one shatter like that. Amazing!

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭

    @Barberian said:

    Will CAC resticker a coin upon inspection if I have proof it was stickered previously?

    All bets are off with PCGS and CAC once the slab is compromised.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Barberian said:
    I received a PCGS EF45 CAC Seated Liberty half today with the slab shattered into dozens of pieces. It was mailed in a bubble envelope with the coin inside another bubble envelope. The slab had worn clear through the inner bubble envelope. Instead of a PCGS CAC coin, I have a raw coin and a shattered slab with a CAC sticker. Fortunately, the coin doesn't appear to have been damaged. The dealer has kindly offered to resubmit the coin for grading with PCGS and CAC. Will CAC resticker a coin upon inspection if I have proof it was stickered previously?

    email CAC and ask them.

  • maplemanmapleman Posts: 868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience cac will sticker it IF it regrades the same and there are no new issues with the coin.
    Good luck it looks like a fork lift ran over it.

  • Please let us know how this pans out

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    The dealer has been very professional in communication, has refunded my payment, and has sent the coin to PCGS for certification and then eventually to CAC for their approval. After that process, we'll negotiate a price. I couldn't find any marks on the coin from shipment, which is AMAZING considering the condition of the holder. I intend to pay the same price for the coin if it is approved by CAC. If not, I assume we'll negotiate a new price. I don't want to lose this coin as it is original and PQ, IMO.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • StorkStork Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like the dealer is doing the best s/he can.

    I had one show up seriously cracked but thankfully intact enough (and the crack was not over the coin) so NGC reholdered it. The dealer offered to take it back and send it, but at that point I was ready to send a submission anyway and live closer to Florida than the dealer so I sent it in myself. He did pay me back though. Thankfully the location on the slab was non-critical and in the same package I had an old Japanese Ministry of Finance slab which would have been irreplaceable (well, okay I could get a different one but that coin would NEVER have been in another one of those cool old slabs...kind of like a GSA type thing).

    It had been sent USPS Express, thickly padded and with cardboard inserts. I can only think it was run over. Again, very grateful it wasn't worse and/or involving a different area of the slab or another coin entirely.


  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 6,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, that's a bummer.

    Only had it happen to me one time, maybe 15 years ago. I won a PCGS VF25 1906-O Barber quarter on Teletrade. A bit of a sleeper date in VF. Picked up the package (a bubble mailer) at the Post Office, and all looked OK, although the package seemed a little dirtier than normal. Opened the package later and found the PCGS holder was in three separate pieces. Luckily there was no damage to the quarter itself. I eventually had it re-certified by our host. Still own it.....great coin even though it apparently went through Hell.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 41,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. I guess I'd have to subscribe to the "forklift" theory as well.

    Sounds like the seller will make good, though. I wouldn't fault them so much as the USPS, though of course they're the ones who'll bear the burden.

    Glad the coin seems OK.

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Remarkable that the coin seems ok.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect it went though a USPS envelope sorter. Do you happen to remember the outside dimensions of the envelope?

  • LeroyLeroy Posts: 186 ✭✭✭

    This is why graded coins should be shipped in small boxes. Some people try to save a few pennies and wind up with this mess.

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes. That's pretty much how I ship too. Although for slabs valued at 100 or more I also use a corrugated cardboard self stick too. New cert # means new CAC inspection with no guarantee of stickering again.

    The Blind VAMmer
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 11,319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking coin.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2019 10:53PM

    Correction - I just noticed the coin came back as EF40 CAC when it was EF45 CAC before. There is no visible damage at all to the coin from the "accident". Hmmm...

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Barberian said:
    Correction - I just noticed the coin came back as EF40 CAC when it was EF45 CAC before. There is no visible damage at all to the coin from the "accident". Hmmm...

    Very interesting. If the coin suffered no damage, the sticker should have gone to gold.

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭✭
  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭

    I think it's a nice EF45 myself and worthy of CAC approval.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 4,899 ✭✭✭

    Anyone receive a coin where the slab arrives shattered to pieces?

    No, I've always had to crack them out myself.

    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • MizzouMizzou Posts: 116 ✭✭✭

    Get some super glue and put it back together again, you'll have a one of a kind Humpty Dumpty slab.

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    maybe ten years ago I made a last minute arrangement to purchase a half dime at the FUN Show. It arrived in the mail much like the OP's coin, 'cept mine was in a demolished NGC 63 holder. Long story short, it is now in a PCGS 62 holder and does sport a CAC gold sticker.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Imagine if it were an original black NGC holder. Kahn!!!!

    thefinn
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