Counterfeit coins impact on the future of coin collecting & general discussion
ifthevamzarockin
Posts: 8,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
Counterfeit coins started popping up shortly after the original was made and have been around for many years. The counterfeit coins & slabs of today are being mass produced in China and the quality is improving. Some of them are even making it past the TPG's it would seem. They are even making errors, key dates, varieties and all common dates. It's almost like they want to copy every coin in the Red Book. There have been a few great threads about specific coins being counterfeit so I thought a general topic or overview thread might be good.
How do you think this will impact coin collecting 15 years from now?
How do you think this will impact coin collecting 50 years from now?
Will the young collectors of today stay well enough informed to be the experts of tomorrow?
Do you think there could be a day when there are more counterfeits on the market than genuine coins?
Are you spending more time to educate yourself about counterfeits?
Has it changed the way you purchase?
Has it changed what you purchase?
Comments
Negatively
Negatively
Maybe but probably not
No
Yes
No
No
15 & 50 years from now the impact will be these fakes resurfacing from people's collections who thought they were real the whole time. Heirs will be confounded and turned off.
Young & old will have to stay informed or they won't remain collectors. Once burned, twice shy.
No.
Yes.
No.
No.
I will say the one benefit of so many fakes is that in pursuing them, I have not only learned a lot about specific series, but have discovered new types and varieties. Determining why something is fake leads to new knowledge.
Raw coins are out for me.
I suspect others will soon start insisting on their bullion be in holders also.
My Saint Set
The counterfeit coin proliferation is - unfortunately - bad for the hobby, though good for authentication services business. New and/or uninformed collectors are - and will continue - being hurt by the fake coins flooding the market now. Certainly it hurts the hobby... how can it not? Now, even experienced collectors must be super careful if considering a raw coin... and also watch for slabbed fakes and fake slabs. Getting tough out there... Cheers, RickO
It is very bad for the hobby. It will erode confidence. Also bad for the hobby are counterfeit prices. More collectors will be burned by overpaying for coins than they will be buying counterfeit coins.
It is obvious by the plethora of fakes exposed on threads here and on other forums I frequent that the problem is vast and quickly become harder to mitigate.
I am an amateur collector of Washington quarters. I like the idea of having a few raw sets. I have one complete with the two key dates. I posted them on another forum and received feedback that they are genuine. I would like to buy more raw, but I am hesitant until I learn more. I could buy them slabbed and crack them, but that is a losing proposition. So I am determined to study them. I think we all need to be vigilant and learn. And ask questions and help with answers.
Bad for the hobby 15 and 50 years from now. Some of the junk will still be in numismatic circulation even if we could stop the production of any more of the stuff at this instant.
There will always be strong, young collectors and dealers entering the market. The question is how many of them will there be?
More counterfeits than genuine coins? Maybe.
Yes, I'm spending more time learning how to tell the difference. I have large "black cabinet" of counterfeit coin pictures gathered from the Internet.
The cointerfetis have not changed my purchasing patterns.
It's a crappy situation, but like they say, knowledge is power. Know your series or buy slabbed or both
I still buy what I like, but I'm very careful.
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Good questions. I believe we are trending away, albeit slow, from an informed opinion in this hobby to less informed, and probably leaving more new collectors susceptible to fraud than previous collectors.
Honestly, I don't believe online coin forums are a microcosm of the hobby as a whole. Not that you had asked that. Most of the collectors I see at the local coin club, and coin auctions still buy "raw;" laugh at slabbed coins because they display a grade which is typically believed as an inflated "opinion," and this is coming from a bunch of seasoned +50-70 year old's who have several cleaned, detailed, coins in their collection as is...about the only fake coins this bunch is aware of are the Chinese Morgans...forget about slabs....
We'll probably just become leaner, meaner, and hopefully, the specialists will become more astute in detecting fraud. We are this hobbies future; right here. Without a doubt.
@PocketArt "Not that you had asked that."
I asked a few questions just to get things started. All questions or comments are welcome and appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to express your point of view and contribute to this thread.
Thanks to everyone for all the great comments so far!
Forget about 15 or 50 years, counterfeits are one of the main reasons coin collecting is already in severe decline today. Nobody stepping up to resolve the issue so no doubt will only continue to get worse from here.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
It’s a terrible situation.
Knowledge is King. Know your series. I just try buy PCGS coins. Years ago I bought a book about counterfeit world gold coins Deggendorfer - diagnostics. The fakes from China seem to be the major culprit now.
What really scares me are fake slabs.
The counterfeits have already destroyed other collectables markets (antique metal toys, etc.)
Given enough incentive and $$, why should coins escape the same fate.
In X years, the fakes will be indistinguishable from the real thing, so what happens then?
What would happen if the hired a couple disgruntled PCGS graders, a numismatic metallurgist, etc. for $250000 each a year, and then, on the open market, buy $300000 face value us 90% silver, carefully sorted by mint, year, etc. then, for example, melt down some dreck 1893-CC Morgans and using the technology, indicators, etc. from the experts, recoin it as MS64 / MS65 1893-CC Morgans, complete with a TXRF showing the silver is REALLY 1893-CC silver, not 1942 Denver silver. With enough work, it will eventually make it into real plastic, and then, IMHO, the game is over.
Sell them at coin shows, where there is no forum of experts looking at high res pictures on line, and no paypal to refund money if there is a problem.