Home› U.S. Coin Forum

Grover the Cat

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 18, 2020 12:32AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I've always liked these tokens but never got around to picking one up.

While looking for a photo to post in @Broadstruck's @RogerB thread, I decided to post one, and to my surprise, they were from the 1890s with different reverses. I had always thought they were much earlier because I saw them sold with Civil War tokens.

Anyone know how many kinds of tokens there are and does anyone collect these?

Anyone know what "CABLE GROVERCAT" means?

Also, does anyone know what "P.A. of A" and "P.A. of P" mean?

Images below are from Steve Hayden.

Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
Tagged:

Comments

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a page from the W.P. Buchanan catalog that shows a posing chair that was manufactured, imported and sold by the firm.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins - Photographers' Association of America? Just a guess. Here's something from the convention in 1902. Perhaps the "P" is "of Pennsylvania"?
    https://photoseed.com/collection/group/program-photographers-association-of-america-1902/

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Photographic Artists of America"

    They were competing for customers with portrait painters and wanted to be approached as serious artists in light.

  • chesterbchesterb Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Weird eyes on that cat

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019 7:29PM

    @chesterb said:
    Weird eyes on that cat

    Grover liked playing with live electrical cable... Hence being called the Cable Cat ;)

    So be nice as you'd be bug eyed too :p

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe both designs are also available struck on copper planchets.

    I know the 1894 is as I've sold a few of those in both copper and brass.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2020 1:49AM

    Here's one more from 1895. This specimen is NGC MS64 from the Pennsylvania Cabinet and recently sold for $270. Photos are from Robert Johnson of Centsles who handled the sale.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that cat.... Had not seen a house cat token before.... That one is interesting... anyone know the back story on the cat? Cheers, RickO

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 876 ✭✭✭✭✭

    David Schenkman had an excellent write up about W.P. Buchanan & Grovercat either in his Numismatist exonumia column or possibly in a TAMS Journal story -- I couldn't find the issue with a quick search of the NNP.

  • jabbajabba Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We need a commemorative grumpy cat coin to celebrate his grumpy life


    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 1:37PM

    I was able to find photos from 4 years from 1894 to 1897 so I updated the images in the OP. It seems there are (at least) 4 years for these now.

    I left the Pennsylvania Cabinet specimen photo by Centles later in the thread since it's a different photographer.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 1:44PM

    Just found this 2013 thread by @Broadstruck with a lot of good info on this token. I'm including the content here on the off chance that thread goes away because it's in the "Testing Forum" for some reason.

    @Broadstruck said:
    1894 W.P. Buchanan, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Rulau Pa-Phi7a / Wright-121, Plain Edge, 26mm Diameter, Rarity-7

    Here's a rare pictorial Gay Nineties token which exonumia collectors have been totally catnip over ever since it was issued. Dr. Benjamin P. Wright in his 1898-1901 works on American Store on Business Cards already rated this then young token a Rarity-7 (Estimated 4-12 known) and valued it at $5.00 at a time when the price of gold was $18.94 an ounce. This is the 5th example I've seen in the last 8 years and only 3 are collectable as 2 have been converted into jewelery pieces. P.A. of A. on the reverse stands for Photographers Association of America. Grovercat on the obverse was Buchanan's Philadelphia cable name selected for dealing with internationale clientele for his sales of photography supplies. Now all the previous examples I've seen have been in Brass Pa-Phi-7's which are bright and proof like as the seem gilt. Doing some research Rulau only list 1 having been struck in copper which once resided in Donald Miller's collection. Although I'm not doing this token it's do justice photography wise it definitely photographs like copper straight on. When tilted into a light source fully proof-like and has copper like patina in the shades of blanketing the entire reverse in shades of blue, green, and red. The obverse is semi proof-like and has shaded or red and blue. Lots more research to be done on this and I may have to send it off to member messydesk so he can make the color pop and represent this token for the in hand beauty it really is... Enjoy!


    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins that was one I sold.

    I can't seem to keep anything Cats, Dogs, Witches, or Dudes smoking weed related as other collectors wiggle it out of me.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    @Zoins that was one I sold.

    I can't seem to keep anything Cats, Dogs, Witches, or Dudes smoking weed related as other collectors wiggle it out of me.

    Yeah, those topics have a lot of interest. I wonder who has the top collection of these.

    There are 2 great witch specimens on eBay now but offered for high prices. I wonder if they will get picked up.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Here's one more type from 1895. This specimen is from the Pennsylvania Cabinet.

    I just bought a couple of rarities out of that collection.

    Although the original Pennsylvania Cabinet token collection was sold by Bowers & Merena in 1997 all this stuff must have been more kept until just now.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 2:03PM

    @Broadstruck said:

    @Zoins said:
    Here's one more type from 1895. This specimen is from the Pennsylvania Cabinet.

    I just bought a couple of rarities out of that collection.

    Although the original Pennsylvania Cabinet token collection was sold by Bowers & Merena in 1997 all this stuff must have been more kept until just now.

    I just picked up 2 from the Pennsylvania Cabinet recently as well, an absolutely rarity and a potential condition rarity, but not this one.

    Good to know the collection was originally sold in 1997. I'll have to look it up. I've been noticing that Stack's Bowers has been doing a better job with their auction archives recently so hopefully this will be included.

    There are so many great pieces in the Pennsylvania Cabinet in this recent sale that I think it deserves some kind of reference to keep the information on the collection together. A number of pieces were recently handled by Centsles on eBay and I've been thinking about putting together references for eBay sales like this. Not sure when I'll have the time but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor for token fans like myself.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 2:09PM

    @tokenpro said:
    David Schenkman had an excellent write up about W.P. Buchanan & Grovercat either in his Numismatist exonumia column or possibly in a TAMS Journal story -- I couldn't find the issue with a quick search of the NNP.

    That's for the info. It would be great to find this story.

    I'm a big fan of the ANS Magazine because they make PDF versions publicly available after a few years, 4 I think.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 2:24PM

    The B&M Pennsylvania Cabinet collection sold in 1997 was mostly Hard Times and Civil War tokens. So either all the U.S. Merchants had been in the collection at the time or the collector assembled this collection over the last 22 years. I think it was already part of the collection as there was stuff I hadn't seen research wise pop up in any sale since 1997. Then again once it the blood stream it's not uncommon for someone who just sold their collection to turn around and build another. Needless to say I still have unanswered question regrading the pedigree on the slab labels. Yet based on the rarity, quality, and quantity feel it's legit.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    The B&M Pennsylvania Cabinet collection sold in 1997 was mostly Hard Times and Civil War tokens. So either all the U.S. Merchants had been in the collection at the time or the collector assembled this collection over the last 22 years. I think it was already part of the collection as there was stuff I hadn't seen research wise pop up in any sale since 1997. Then again once it the blood stream it's not uncommon for someone who just sold their collection to turn around and build another. Needless to say I still have unanswered question regrading the pedigree on the slab labels. Yet based on the rarity, quality, and quantity feel it's legit.

    1997 and 2019 is a long time in between sales, but I agree there are some nice, rare, high quality pieces in the recent offering.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there any information on who engraved and struck these tokens?

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    So either all the U.S. Merchants had been in the collection at the time or the collector assembled this collection over the last 22 years. I think it was already part of the collection as there was stuff I hadn't seen research wise pop up in any sale since 1997.

    These are in the newer NGC slabs, without the centering on the label. So at the very least, they were reholdered to get the pedigree. Was the Pennsylvania Cabinet sold raw?

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Was watching this W.H. Key storecard with interest because I own one and haven't seen too many around.

    Nice token, but too bad for the spots on the obverse which the seller calls "MS65RD?"

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 4:05PM

    @DCW said:

    @Broadstruck said:
    So either all the U.S. Merchants had been in the collection at the time or the collector assembled this collection over the last 22 years. I think it was already part of the collection as there was stuff I hadn't seen research wise pop up in any sale since 1997.

    These are in the newer NGC slabs, without the centering on the label. So at the very least, they were reholdered to get the pedigree. Was the Pennsylvania Cabinet sold raw?

    A recent batch was handled by centsles which included newer NGC and ICG blue-label slabs. There are some upcoming NNC slabs for sale as well. Given this, it seems centsles may have assisted with the slabbing.

    NGC does a nice job on pedigrees, which is especially suitable for exonumia. It would be nice for PCGS to follow suit.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 3:59PM

    @DCW said:
    Was watching this W.H. Key storecard with interest because I own one and haven't seen too many around.

    Nice token, but too bad for the spots on the obverse which the seller calls "MS65RD?"

    I was watching that one as well. It ended up going for $162.50.

    A white metal NGC MS61 one sold for $138.50 in the same group.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins
    I would've been all over that white metal token. How'd I miss that?

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019 4:49PM

    @DCW said:
    @Zoins
    I would've been all over that white metal token. How'd I miss that?

    I missed that too for some reason. I had the copper one on my watch list but didn't see the white metal one until after the auction closed. Hopefully someone here picked it up.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @DCW said:
    Was watching this W.H. Key storecard with interest because I own one and haven't seen too many around.

    Nice token, but too bad for the spots on the obverse which the seller calls "MS65RD?"

    I was watching that one as well. It ended up going for $162.50.

    A white metal NGC MS61 one sold for $138.50 in the same group.

    Prices was a bit cheap on those.

    All the coppers I've seen are RB with at least one spot.

    Reverse is double struck with mild overlap on many.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    @Zoins
    I would've been all over that white metal token. How'd I miss that?

    Scarcer is brass than white metal.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2020 1:49AM

    @Zoins said:
    Here's one more from 1895. This specimen is NGC MS64 from the Pennsylvania Cabinet and recently sold for $270. Photos are from Robert Johnson of Centsles who handled the sale.

    In addition to the PA Cabinet sale photos above, here are the Stack's photos of the same token from the Tim Gabriele sale. This sold for $264 in the Tim Gabriele collection sale.

    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-NLCV1/pennsylvania-philadelphia-1895-wp-buchanan-rulau-phl-b7b-brass-plain-edge-ms-64-ngc

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2020 1:01AM

    Here's one on hold at CRO now. This has a very nice looking obverse.

    Nice to have the James E. Dice, M. Lamar Hicks, and now John Agre / CRO provenance on this.

    https://www.coinraritiesonline.com/product/1894-cat-token/

    1894 Cat Token
    MS64 [NGC]

    Rulau-PHI-7 variety, W.P. Buchanan. Struck in Brass.

    A striking, seldom seen and all but impossible to improve upon issue with a cool cat motif that slots in very nicely in this row of the EB.

    Ex Stack’s July 2008 sale of the James E. Dice & M. Lamar Hicks Collection, lot #3503; earlier Coin Galleries February 2001 sale, lot #1491.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021 7:25PM

    Here's another I just ran across. I'm kind of addicted to these. I wish I bought up all the Tim Gabriele specimens.

    This one can be called the 1897 Kearney Specimen as it's from the Kearney Coin Center.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Home • U.S. Coin ForumComment As ...