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A surreal question for all U.S. coin experts here to ponder (and perhaps even answer if one exists)!
apollo14
Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
Hello everyone!
I have an intriguing question for all the experts out there.
In the entire history of United States coinage, how many specific coins from any and all series can definatively be identified one of the first few examples ever struck (lets say one of the first five coins struck of a series)?
For example, it is believed by some experts that one specific 1794 dollar can be identified as the FIRST United States dollar ever struck (although even with that coin some disagree).
Thoughts (and thanks)?
David
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I believe the Columbian half dollar is one.
Is it actually known what the first, second, or third actual Columbian half dollar struck was and, if so, how has that been verified?
I think kbbpll is correct and I think a few other classic commems were treated the same way - the first several coins were struck and immediately placed in numbered envelopes.
I recall reading that when the five 1913 V-nickels were assembled together, it was obvious what order they were struck in.
OK, then, let me phrase the question another way.
In the entire history of American coinage since 1792, what would be a realistic approximation of how many coins in total from ALL series combined can be definatively proven to be among the first five or so of each series ever struck?
As an example within one specific series, do we know what specific Morgan Dollars are among the first five ever struck in 1878 (and so on)?
And, even if we did, do any of those five still survive (much less in a private collector's hands)?
David
Lots of state quarters had first strike ceremonies, so I am sure it is known for those.
YN Member of the ANA, ANS, NBS, EAC, C4, MCA, PNNA, CSNS, ILNA, TEC, and more!
Always buying numismatic literature and sample slabs.
But can we definatively point to specific examples?
Numbered 1921-D dollars.
Where can I then see one of the first three-known Peace Dollars ever struck (smile)?
Apollo Coins.
Very first struck Apollo coins.
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-121418a-mint-apollo11-50th-coins-first-strike.html
https://www.amfcse.org/apollo-11-50th-anniversary-commemorative-coin-program-2019
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1017434/there-is-a-real-buzz-around-pcgs-today-big-news-for-apollo-coins
The Hayes specimen of the 1878 8TF Morgan dollar was the first one struck, and is accompanied by a note from the coiner attesting thereto.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
OK, I am thinking more of the first few-known strikes from any American coin series since 1792 produced specifically as circulating coins (smile).
Is there an image of it that I can see here (and who owns it)?
Good job!
I've owned quite a few proofs from the Garrett 1821 QE PCGS PR64 (mintage 3) on up through the Spellman-Akers 1838 $10 PR65 (mintage 3), but it appears those are eliminated as "non-circulating coins". OTOH, if you are just eliminating patterns and such, @rohnhayski has been augmenting John Dannreuther's work on "master coins" and might have more to add. As for the total number of coins of all coin series, that's a meaningless number.
I could posit the Garrett-Hayes 1795 Draped Bust Off-Center $1 SP66 but not verify its strike order, and include the Parmelee 1792 Silver Disme (total survivors 3 but mintage likely unverifiable. Inclusion tenuous if I understand the meaning of since.
It's at the Hayes museum in Fremont, OH. Here are some pictures from Leroy Van Allen.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Very impressive!
The Remington typewriter company supposedly bought the first struck 1892 coin for $10000 as a publicity stunt. Alternatively, a purportedly "defective" first coin was given to James W. Ellsworth of the World's Fair Commission by Philadelphia mint superintendent Oliver Bosbyshell. These events are documented in newspaper articles. There was a lot of hype surrounding this (Selling a half dollar for twice face value?! Unbelievable!) and reporters were evidently present at the mint during the first striking. Also, a handful of 1893 proofs were minted and the very first supposedly is with the Chicago Historical Society, so there's another one.
But, in my view, "first" coin is a tough thing to define. Pattern? Test? Specimen? Proof?
Another example could be 1894-S dimes. 8-9 known out of 24 minted; one of those could probably be determined to have been "first", or at least before the others.
Not only the first medal, but the first anything on the first US Steam Coinage Press.
yes, and sold for $10,000 to [I believe] Singer sewing machine co
BHNC #203
Some have been documented (as noted above)... other than those, it would be mostly guesswork since specimens were not retained. Early strikes would have better details, but unlikely that one could determine between first, second, third or even number one hundred. Cheers, RickO
Unless there is clear documentation and an equally clear chain of ownership such claims should be dismissed. This is a hobby in which sales hype should always be ignored. Just the facts. Just the facts.
If you ignore "sales hype", 1913 Liberty Nickels would be at least a factor of 10 cheaper...maybe a factor of 100.
Trophy hunters often get carried away in their relentless search for "the best".