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State of numismatic knowledge – what could be done? REMOVED
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
[Just realized the same question was asked about 2 years ago. The result was that nobody cared very much and some got upset, so we'll skip the conversation.]
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So ask a better question .....maybe who collects what and let’s see them
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I’ll start. Here’s the obverse. Who wants. To see the reverse?
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
State of numismatic knowledge – what could be done?
Nothing except more education for the grass roots who are not actually numismatists. There is so much new info available from so many sources - many didn't even exist in the past - that the state of numismatic knowledge for those who look is just fine and only getting better!
Me.
My answer would be not much. Most collectors are concerned with filling holes, thinking they are going to make money and grading issues.
I have a small group of collectors in my local club who enjoy the educational programs I give, but they in the minority. I can't even get a spot to speak at the FUN conventions. Getting those spots is a combination of club politics and speakers who cover topics like, "How to make money with coins" or "How not to get ripped off when you buy coins," and maybe a free book.
I like your posts.
Very thought provoking and brings out the wealth of knowledge from others.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Here you go @Smudge .
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Now, this one is steeped in the revolutionary war and the Boston tea party.
Paul Revere and many more met here all the time. Search the tavern for some wonderful info.
I was going to do a write up when I get home next week.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I was actually thinking of posting something similar (presumably, based on the title alone): How does numismatic knowledge bubble up to the TPG websites? How do they decide what information to include in their "narrative"?
You have something like the 1913 Buffalo nickel, where Type 1 and Type 2 not only get a narrative, but separate "type" designations in the price guide on PCGS. On the other hand, something like the obverse and reverse design changes on Barber dimes in 1901, which has been known for almost 40 years, is absent from the narrative.
I realize that some of this information is deemed too "specialized" or obscure, but it wouldn't be so obscure if it was promoted in the narratives, particularly when it involves deliberate and noticeable design changes. Demand seems to drive the promotion of knowledge, whereas the promotion of knowledge could be driving demand.
Wasn't planning on adding anything, however I'm reminded of a forum member who recently researched, compiled, examined and will soon have published, an excellent article on a specific 1851 proof seated dollar. Although the bits and pieces were known to some, no one had compiled, checked and peer reviewed all of the relevant pieces of information. The result is a very useful and valuable contribution to hobby knowledge.
There are likely many other similar situations waiting to be examined, reassessed, consolidated and published. But, like many useful things, it requires perseverance and an open mind.
RE: "...this one is steeped in the revolutionary war and the Boston tea party."
If a copper medal is steeped, do we get copper sulfate or possibly Earl Green tea?
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I’m not really sure, however I am partial to early gray but not so much green tea
But, a bigger question would be did they use revere silverware
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Interesting read
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
@RogerB what does peer review look like in numismatics?
I think you have painted a very bad image of the FUN Educational Program. I believe their goal is to educate the public with the topics of interest to the most folks. This is a crap shoot as some of my programs are standing room only while other times (especially the summer show) I may only get thirty.
I GUARANTEE a program titled "How to make instant profit at the show today after this talk" will fill the room while a presentation by an extremely knowledgeable numismatist speaking on his collection of wonderful coins without CAC stickers will have no chance of making the cut.
Portrait coins of King George was also rejected. LOL
It's very simple if you look at current academic research and research 100s years ago. Researchers need funding and have traditionally turned to patrons and make proposals. In academic research today, a large part of research is writing grant proposals and getting funding. 100s of years ago, and today, artists and thinkers, found rich patrons to support them.
Today, I think numismatic researchers that want funding need to do something similar and go find funding, whether through grants or patrons.
In the instance mentioned above, the author received a little guidance in finding sources, data correlation, and article structure. (The author had also had a prior article published.)
The author submitted a rough draft to 3 or 4 established numismatic authors with research expertise. Suggestions were made, and used by the author to prepare a more detailed and complete draft.
The review process was repeated on a subsequent draft as was the author's revisions.
A final review was made of the author's pre-publication draft. This last review stressed content details and possible omissions. The author utilized these comments to create a final publication version which was submitted (and accepted) for future printing in a hobby journal/magazine.
The basic peer review structure is similar to that used for any academic publication, although not a stringent. (No PhDs were harmed in the peer review.)
RE:
"I’m not really sure, however I am partial to early gray but not so much green tea
But, a bigger question would be did they use revere silverware."
OR
How many shades of Earl Gray are there?
The only time I got to give a program at FUN, the topic “A year set of 1795.” It included physical examples of the coins, including gold, and a Power Point presentation. I got about 40 people to to come. It had nothing to do with king George, CAC or grading.
And, yes, getting a spot at the FUN show educational forums has a lot to do with who you know.
Your comments were out of line, @Insider2.
@RogerB asked: "How many shades of Earl Gray are there?
Fifty?
One other thing an author gets from a good peer review is that reviewers will identify problems with grammar, word choice and syntax. Difficulties with handling written English can easily produce situations where the author thinks he/she is being "perfectly clear" when a reader might find a statement ambiguous or contradictory.
Clear writing is difficult in all languages, but English is especially challenging because of its irregularity and flexible word order.
I would ask 'What is the perceived state of numismatic knowledge and what is that based upon?' Are you addressing mass knowledge or individuals known to be authorities in specific areas? Cheers, RickO
Ricko's comment breaks down into several parts:
RE: "Today, I think numismatic researchers that want funding need to do something similar and go find funding, whether through grants or patrons."
Yep. However, the field is very small and has no academic structure (such as universities, etc.) participating. The only grants and a handful of small amounts being given out by EPNNES - and those seem to be in response to CSNS complete elimination of research grants and support for education. Only Heritage Auctions as a business has supported research via the Newman biography and publication of several in-depth numismatic books.
Funding sponsors have to recognize that it is nearly impossible to research only a single numismatic subject. Original sources are diverse, disorganized, geographically scattered, and artifacts (coins) seldom available in statistically valid quantities. Thus, numismatic research that creates long-term value for the hobby/business had to support an open-ended model.
These are only my opinions --- others will differ.
@RogerB How do you get support for the books you write? Do you have patrons or organizations providing grants?
About (uncirculated)
I've paid for every cent of research and printing, with two exceptions where the book was commissioned and I do not have rights to the book.
Which books have been commissioned?
Do you have a preference for commissioned or self-funded?
The book sponsors will have to state that. I do not own the product of their commissions.
Interesting. You’re not even allowed to say you wrote it? Are your credited for the work or not?
Properly credited as author. The balance is up to the sponsors to publicize, if they wish. The books and all rights are their property.
RE: "Do you have a preference for commissioned or self-funded?"
My preference is for basic, open-ended research grants to support both research and publication. Original source materials in American numismatics are too scattered and disorganized to permit targeted research.
(I forgot to mention 2 grants from CSNS both of which were applied to research for lengthy articles that have not been published due to lack of funds. When, or if, these are published, appropriate credit for the assistance will be provided.)