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Original Envelopes

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 24, 2019 1:08AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I'm fascinated by original envelopes.

I just ran across this one for the Pike's Peak So-Called Dollar (HK-338) on Tipsico Coin by Alex A. Pancheco.

Post any original envelopes you've run across here!

https://www.tipsicocoin.com/tokens-medals/hk338-pikes-peak-centennial-with-original-envelope

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat item. Of course, they were actually minted in 1906. From what I gather, a leftover quantity of them was stored in a Colorado Springs Bank and then given out as promotional items in 1956. This must be one of those.

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    Neat item. Of course, they were actually minted in 1906. From what I gather, a leftover quantity of them was stored in a Colorado Springs Bank and then given out as promotional items in 1956. This must be one of those.

    PS: Now that I've read the item description from the link provided, the above is basically correct except that they were sold (not given away).

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yeah, it is sort of a deceptive "Original Envelope" description for this particular medal. i seem to recall the same as DC, that the medals actually arrived after the celebration was over and then ended up in a bank vault until 1956. if it would have been handled as a Commemorative Half-Dollar was handled, I suppose only pre-orders would have been distributed and all the remaining medals returned to the Mint for melting.

    that would have resulted in a rarity where a common medal exists today.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019 3:43AM

    The history behind these So-Called Dollars and envelopes is interesting. While not specifically mentioned by Tipsico, HK indicates these were discovered in the old First National Bank Building in 1955 and sold by Historical Society of Pike's Peak Region, Inc. for the 1956 Sesquicentennial Celebration.

    Here's the current webpage for the Pikes Peak Historical Society:

    http://www.pikespeakhsmuseum.org/

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    HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have envelopes, but, they are your common proof and mint set envelopes (some with the card). Don’t know why I keep them. ;)

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only 'original' envelopes I have are from the U.S. Mint....old mint sets... I often found AH Kennedy halves in these old sets... Cheers, RickO

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    kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    @Hemispherical said:
    I have envelopes, but, they are your common proof and mint set envelopes (some with the card). Don’t know why I keep them. ;)

    I kept the US Mint order confirmation card for my brown box Ike (1971). That's as close as I can come to this topic. :smile:

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    jabba - Burdette G. Johnson's business - the primary mentor of Eric P. Newman.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019 2:56PM

    US Mint employees were permitted to participate in the parade. Director Burchard decided the event was not political. Following the parade the Mint received several requests for medals. I don't know if these were complied with or not.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019 10:18PM

    Excellent Ulysses S. Grant medal @BillJones! I'm a big fan of these. @Meltdown sold one with the envelope on the BST which I wanted to buy but found too late. I wonder who has it now.

    I don't have an envelope but I do have the only NGC brass PL/DPL, a MS65 PL. There are also 2 gold ones, a MS62 PL and a MS63 DPL.

    Here are @Meltdown's envelope photos from the BST:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/996249/1776-continental-so-called-dollar-mind-your-business-1962-bowers-restrike-empire-coin

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Roger, my first job was in a small machine shop on Tungsten Rd. directly across the street from that General Electric address.

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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I kind of miss that medal as well. I thought it was super neat... sadly, not even close to what I like to collect so I let it go.
    I forget who purchased it.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,510 ✭✭✭✭✭

    its good to see the other part of that (such as envelopes)

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Meltdown said:
    I kind of miss that medal as well. I thought it was super neat... sadly, not even close to what I like to collect so I let it go.
    I forget who purchased it.

    Love how yours is prooflike too. I wonder if it would be graded it as such.

    Hopefully the owner will find this thread and post here :)

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    Roger, my first job was in a small machine shop on Tungsten Rd. directly across the street from that General Electric address.

    A business card from the same person was also with the Inco pieces. GE made some of the unusual metal blanks for Inco. and DuPont made others. I've never been able to learn why Inco strayed so far from potentially usable coinage metals. Possibly, they were searching for nickel-based alloys and had some pure element pieces made for comparison. Yet, Inco already knew the US vending machine specifications -- so why invest time and money in testing things that could not possibly be usable?

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gould, Inc. whic was/still is located about 2-3 miles or less from the GE location also made some test planchets, I believe they were Titanium.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gould's tests were related to the small dollar coin program. They wanted the mint to convert to using sintered titanium (or other metals) for a small diameter dollar. Their experiments are also covered in the book Private Pattern and Related Pieces - INTERNATIONAL NICKEL & GOULD INCORPORATED.

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    Here the envelope that goes with this small medal that was struck in honor of U.S. Grant for a parade that the city held for him on December 16, 1879. The medal is quite common, but it isn't when it is with the original envelope.

    The medal


    DeWitt decided to list this medal as an 1880 campaign piece. Grant probably was doing some politicking during this event. After eight years as president, Grant retired after two terms as all previous presidents had done. He took a world tour with his wife Nellie and received much world acclaim. He even saw the pyramids in Egypt with pictures to prove it.

    When he returned home, he and Nellie decided that they wanted another term in the White House. Grant ran for the Republican nomination. At the convention, the delegates deadlocked with Grant getting the most votes, but not the majority he needed to win the nomination. His main opponents were Senators James G. Blain of Maine and John Sherman, brother of the Civil War general, of Ohio.

    On the 34th ballot, a group of Wisconsin delegates jumped to James Garfield. Garfield claimed he didn’t want the nomination and continued to support Sherman. On the 36th ballot, a swarm of delegates switched to Garfield and he won the nomination. The vote was 399 for Garfield to 306 for Grant with 50 votes divided among three other candidates.

    Garfield went on to defeat Winfield Scott Hancock in the general election, but he was shot by an assassin in July 1881 and died the following September under the care of totally incompetent doctor.

    .
    .
    Were these known as proof like or at least recognized as such? Or, maybe they all were?
    Also were there any gold gilt ones? This one sure looks like its gilt and proof like

    .

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Excellent Ulysses S. Grant medal @BillJones! I'm a big fan of these. @Meltdown sold one with the envelope on the BST which I wanted to buy but found too late. I wonder who has it now.

    I don't have an envelope but I do have the only NGC brass PL/DPL, a MS65 PL. There are also 2 gold ones, a MS62 PL and a MS63 DPL.

    Here are @Meltdown's envelope photos from the BST:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/996249/1776-continental-so-called-dollar-mind-your-business-1962-bowers-restrike-empire-coin

    .
    .
    Ah crap, as soon as I posted mine I see this one above.....lol Nicer than mine by a mile!

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love original envelopes from collectors of the past! The few pieces I've purchased from the Partrick Collection reveal a collector fascinated with provenance. He labeled every envelope, whether or not it contained something expensive or cheap, with a lot of valuable info.
    It was great to see that although he had a ton of cash, he also had a lot of passion for the hobby and deserved everything he held onto.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Typical envelopes from Don Partrick's holdings, these from a large chunk of Canadian Colonial tokens that I purchased and have been handling. Note the complete description, catalog number and grade (right on to a shade conservative in most cases IMHO) at the top including comments on the grade. Under his green stamped collection identifier is the date acquired, additional catalog #'s, from whom acquired (xRAV = Robert Vlack, C. Margolis, Warren Baker, ex-Oppenheimer, named auction sales, etc.) and additional relevant comments such as "Baker says 'Finest he has seen this variety'". These have been both a pleasure and an advanced numismatic history lesson to go through.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinsarefun said:

    @BillJones said:
    Here the envelope that goes with this small medal that was struck in honor of U.S. Grant for a parade that the city held for him on December 16, 1879. The medal is quite common, but it isn't when it is with the original envelope.

    The medal


    DeWitt decided to list this medal as an 1880 campaign piece. Grant probably was doing some politicking during this event. After eight years as president, Grant retired after two terms as all previous presidents had done. He took a world tour with his wife Nellie and received much world acclaim. He even saw the pyramids in Egypt with pictures to prove it.

    When he returned home, he and Nellie decided that they wanted another term in the White House. Grant ran for the Republican nomination. At the convention, the delegates deadlocked with Grant getting the most votes, but not the majority he needed to win the nomination. His main opponents were Senators James G. Blain of Maine and John Sherman, brother of the Civil War general, of Ohio.

    On the 34th ballot, a group of Wisconsin delegates jumped to James Garfield. Garfield claimed he didn’t want the nomination and continued to support Sherman. On the 36th ballot, a swarm of delegates switched to Garfield and he won the nomination. The vote was 399 for Garfield to 306 for Grant with 50 votes divided among three other candidates.

    Garfield went on to defeat Winfield Scott Hancock in the general election, but he was shot by an assassin in July 1881 and died the following September under the care of totally incompetent doctor.

    Were these known as proof like or at least recognized as such? Or, maybe they all were?
    Also were there any gold gilt ones? This one sure looks like its gilt and proof like

    I have a few of these and yours looks like brass to me. There are a few in the Heritage archives you can compare with.

    The following is my gilt 1882 Penn Centennial medal. It looks quite a bit yellower than the brass 1879 Grant parade medals.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2021 9:40PM

    @tokenpro said:

    Typical envelopes from Don Partrick's holdings, these from a large chunk of Canadian Colonial tokens that I purchased and have been handling. Note the complete description, catalog number and grade (right on to a shade conservative in most cases IMHO) at the top including comments on the grade. Under his green stamped collection identifier is the date acquired, additional catalog #'s, from whom acquired (xRAV = Robert Vlack, C. Margolis, Warren Baker, ex-Oppenheimer, named auction sales, etc.) and additional relevant comments such as "Baker says 'Finest he has seen this variety'". These have been both a pleasure and an advanced numismatic history lesson to go through.

    A lot of history with those!

    I wish auction houses would photograph envelopes, but I'm not sure what financial incentive they could have.

    Should auction houses photograph envelopes?

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess your probably right @Zoins , but I couldn’t find any on the auction sites. I’ll look better this time.

    Comparing my gilt PENN also. Maybe my brass Grant just has some deep toning.


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    KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2021 11:08PM

    Here are a couple from my collection, I unfortunately don't know much about them. The person I bought them from had acquired a few from a coin dealer in 2007 who purchased them from an estate sale many years earlier.




    Successful BST Transactions With: tonedase, streg2, airplanenut, coindeuce, vibr0nic, natetrook, Shrub68, golden, Lakesammman, drddm, Ilikecolor, CoinJunkie, wondercoin, lablover
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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great to see some historic packaging with awesome numis. Thanks all. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

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    ZoidMeisterZoidMeister Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for resurrecting this thread @coinsarefun . I've got lots of learning to do.

    Here is one of a few I have. More to follow when I hit the office.

    Z

    .
    .

    Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!

    Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?

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    ZoidMeisterZoidMeister Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do these count?

    Z

    .

    .

    Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!

    Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?

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    Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins are one of the few collectibles where the envelope, box, OGP that it originally came in is not important to the value of the coin. For toys, antiques and most collectibles the original packaging contributes to the value - but not coins! The grading process and slabbing has changed that. When I get mint sets I even pull those apart now a days...

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    Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:

    I heard these came with envelopes but that’s the first one I have seen .
    The first day cover was as close as I have got. Thanks for posting as now I know what to look for. 😉



    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2021 6:20AM

    @coinsarefun said:
    I do have a few but off hand I can think of this one right now. Not that old but still pretty cool.


    Great piece! I love the design!

    Is that the forerunner of Coin Rarities Online?

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @coinsarefun said:
    I do have a few but off hand I can think of this one right now. Not that old but still pretty cool.


    Great piece! I love the design!

    Is that the forerunner of Coin Rarities Online?

    .
    Thanks, I think it was when they were together.

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    vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice collections.

    @Hemispherical said:
    I have envelopes, but, they are your common proof and mint set envelopes (some with the card). Don’t know why I keep them. ;)

    Ditto.
    I only have the same from the sixties onwards and a first day cover of Elizabeth II Coronation issued on 3rd June 1953

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinsarefun said:

    @Zoins said:

    @coinsarefun said:
    I do have a few but off hand I can think of this one right now. Not that old but still pretty cool.


    Great piece! I love the design!

    Is that the forerunner of Coin Rarities Online?

    Thanks, I think it was when they were together.

    It could be. We can ask @CoinRaritiesOnline .

    I wonder if "DW 116" means Dave Wnuck.

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    JeffersonFrogJeffersonFrog Posts: 830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a 1913 Liberty Head, but still cool ...

    If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.

    Tommy

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @coinsarefun said:

    @Zoins said:

    @coinsarefun said:
    I do have a few but off hand I can think of this one right now. Not that old but still pretty cool.


    Great piece! I love the design!

    Is that the forerunner of Coin Rarities Online?

    Thanks, I think it was when they were together.

    It could be. We can ask @CoinRaritiesOnline .

    I wonder if "DW 116" means Dave Wnuck.

    I’m fairly certain is is because Dave sold it to me

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    ZoidMeisterZoidMeister Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2021 12:33PM

    Of course, an original BOX is cool too, right . . . . ?

    Z
    .

    .


    Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!

    Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?

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    EXOJUNKIEEXOJUNKIE Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This probably won’t thrill many of you, but the elongated is an R7 and this is the only original holder/envelope I’ve ever seen. It is M&D WASxxx-2.

    I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!

    ANA LM

    USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
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    Picked this up on ebay a year or so ago.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Andy_MA1958 said:
    Picked this up on ebay a year or so ago.

    Very nice! It's great to have the provenance right on it as well!

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