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eBay Sales Tax Collection Roll-Out Is a Huge Mess For Bullion Purchases

CoinPhysicistCoinPhysicist Posts: 567 ✭✭✭✭
edited April 19, 2019 3:25PM in Precious Metals

I can't be the only person that thinks the eBay roll-out of sales tax collection has been a huge mess. I can only speak for myself living in California, but there is no consistency among sellers and just about no one is collecting as per the law. I can name at least 1 seller in 4 different categories of collecting correctly and incorrectly now. They are:

  1. Out of State Seller who collects correctly, i.e. collects for purchase under $1500, does not collect for purchase over $1500: APMEX looks to me to be collecting correctly.
  2. In State Seller who collects correctly, i.e. collects for purchase under $1500, does not collect for purchase over $1500: Liberty Coin looks to collect correctly. They collect for over $1500 but immediately refund the sales tax they shouldn't have collected.
  3. Out of State Seller who collects incorrectly, i.e. collects for all purchases even over $1500: I won't name a name but it's a big company, I just sent them an eBay message - shame too cause I wanted to make a purchase from them.
  4. Out of State Seller who is not collecting at all, i.e. not collecting even for purchases under $1500: I won't name a name but there is at least one.

All the sellers I am thinking of are pretty big sellers on eBay. None of them are joe small guy coin physicist like me. And everyone is collecting differently and very few people are collecting correctly. APMEX is the only seller I have seen that automatically has everything correct from the start and Liberty Coin will make it right. But besides that, this sales tax collection has become a big freaking mess.

EDIT: The law as I understand it is that bullion/coin purchases under $1500 should have sales tax collected, and over $1500 should be exempt.

Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.

Comments

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019 4:02PM

    CDTFA. Use tax. California.

    Argh! https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/

    News Release. Important information for out-of-state sellers selling to addresses in CA. See the bold italics.

    News Release
    For Immediate Release
    December 11, 2018

    NR 18-59
    Contact: Casey Wells
    Office of Public Affairs
    916-327-8988
    California Announces New Use Tax Collection Requirements for In-State and Out-of-State Retailers

    Recent U.S. Supreme Court Decision in South Dakota v. Wayfair, Inc. Expands Retailers’ Tax Collection Obligations Under California Law

    The California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) announced today that beginning April 1, 2019, out-of-state retailers selling above certain thresholds into California will be required to collect California use taxes on their sales into California. Today 's Special Notices also impact in-state and out-of-state retailers' obligations to collect and remit district use taxes adopted by California localities.

    "Today 's announcement does not increase or create any tax," said CDTFA Director Nick Maduros. "Rather, California will now require more out-of-state retailers to collect and remit taxes just as brick-and-mortar retailers have done for decades. With the Supreme Court 's decision in Wayfair, California is able to help level the playing field for California businesses."

    Requirements for Certain Out-of-State Retailers

    The new use tax collection requirement is not retroactive and applies only to sales made on and after April 1, 2019. For out-of-state retailers, the new collection requirement applies if, during the preceding or current calendar year, the retailer 's sales for delivery into California exceed $100,000 or the retailer makes sales for delivery into California in 200 or more separate transactions.

    Retailers who are already required to be registered to collect California use tax prior to April 1, 2019 will see no change in their registration obligations; retailers with a physical presence in California are still generally required to be registered with the CDTFA.

    Although the new requirement to collect California use tax applies only to sales on and after April 1, 2019, retailers may choose to register and collect the tax prior to April 1, 2019. Retailers can register on the CDTFA website at www.cdtfa.ca.gov.

    "We know the legislature is also looking closely at this issue and we look forward to working with them as we proceed," said CDTFA Director Nick Maduros.

    Impact on District Tax Collection Requirements for Out-of-State and In-State Retailers

    With today 's announcement, certain retailers selling above these thresholds in a single local jurisdiction (district) will also be responsible for collecting that district 's use tax pursuant to Revenue and Taxation Code section 7262 and the Supreme Court 's decision in South Dakota v. Wayfair. This responsibility will apply if, during the preceding or current calendar year, the retailer 's sales into the district exceed $100,000 or the retailer made sales into the district in 200 or more separate transactions. This requirement will apply equally to in-state and out-of-state retailers.

    District taxes are the voter-approved sales and use taxes imposed by cities, counties and other local jurisdictions (districts) added to California 's base sales and use tax rate of 7.25 percent to fund important local services. Currently, retailers located in a taxing district are engaged in business in that district. A retailer is also engaged in business in a district where they have some form of physical presence under existing law.

    Beginning April 1, 2019, any retailer whose sales into a district exceed $100,000 or who make sales into a district in 200 or more transactions in the preceding or current calendar year is considered to be engaged in business in that district and is required to collect that district 's use tax on sales made for delivery in that district.

    Retailers are required to report and pay any district tax to the CDTFA on their sales and use tax return.

    The CDTFA plans to begin the interested parties process for rulemaking next year.

    Taxpayer Assistance Available

    Taxpayers seeking additional information on registration requirements can find the CDTFA's online guide Use Tax Collection Requirements Based on Sales into California Due to the Wayfair Decision at www.cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/wayfair.htm. Taxpayers may also contact their local office for assistance.

    Note: This news release may discuss complex tax laws and concepts. It may not address every situation, and is not considered written advice that may be relied on, pursuant to California Code of Regulations, title 18, sections 1705 and 4902. Changes in tax law or regulations may have occurred since the time this news release was written. If there is a conflict between the text of this news release and the law, decisions will be based upon the law and not this news release. For specific help, please contact the CDTFA at 1-800-400-7115.

    https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/news/18-59.htm

    —————

    Other info links:

    http://consumerwiki.dca.ca.gov/wiki/index.php/Coin_Dealers/Collectors

    https://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/annotations/pdf/168.0000-168.0900 Coins & Bullion - Final.pdf

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,606 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The magic numbers to remember are: $100,000 and or 200 sales for delivery into the state. That is the general criteria of all states that are collection sales tax on out of state purchases. Most small or medium sized ebay sellers would not qualify and not be assessed a sales tax on their sales.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • CoinPhysicistCoinPhysicist Posts: 567 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019 10:03AM

    All 4 cases I gave were pretty big ebay sellers by most standards. An example of #3 out of state seller who is collecting for every purchase when they should only collect on purchases less than $1500 is JM Bullion. Edit: JM says they will refund if it's collected and it should not be. And an example of #4 who is not collecting on any purchase but should be on purchases less than $1500 is Pinehurst coins. I find it hard to believe that Pinehurst coins is exempt for less than 200 sales a year or $100,000 per year to California when a single 1 ounce gold coin is $1300 alone and sometimes they sell 100s of coins a day or more.

    I just find it very frustrating that it doesn't seem like anyone just about is applying sales tax correctly.

    Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No bullion taxes here in the commonwealth via ebay or the big dogs selling there. God bless ebay, god bless the commonwealth!

  • rickoricko Posts: 84,678 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing... and just more governmental greed.... The overall tax burden is incredible and they are always seeking to get more.... and more and more... Cheers, RickO

  • USASoccerUSASoccer Posts: 421 ✭✭✭

    Commiefornia

  • derrybderryb Posts: 32,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019 3:16PM

    When flogging ebay sellers for charging state sales tax, first determine if the seller charged it or ebay automatically charged it. Current states in the ebay algorithm are IA, MN, WA.

    If you have an ebay seller incorrectly charging you tax then communicate with them. If you don't like the fact that you have to pay taxes, take it up with the people you elected.

    Ebay's sales tax info page

    Conspiracy Theory: Deduction based on logic before it become based on fact.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    When flogging ebay sellers for charging state sales tax, first determine if the seller charged it or ebay automatically charged it. Current states in the ebay algorithm are IA, MN, WA.

    If you have an ebay seller incorrectly charging you tax then communicate with them. If you don't like the fact that you have to pay taxes, take it up with the people you elected.

    Ebay's sales tax info page

    This was put at the bottom of the above link from @derryb.

    “Top Takeaway
    When you list your item you need to indicate that you charge sales tax in the listing form. It's up to you to pay applicable taxes on eBay sales.”

  • MeshMesh Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    SD Bullion, Provident & MCM does not collect

  • FishproFishpro Posts: 282 ✭✭✭

    NonSales tax on Bullion or coins in Washington State.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 28,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019 8:35PM

    @USASoccer said:
    Commiefornia

    could someone PM me their effective CA tax rates in commiefornia? in my undisclosed location inside the state of commienecticut, our State Tax Owed divided by the Fed AGI yields a 5.25% effective rate. Property Taxes are another thing @ (39.99 mill rate & 3.97% of assessed value after deductions) ... plus they throw in your autos (3.76%) just in case. Sales Tax is 6.35%

    the obligatory on topic:

    (3) SALES IN BULK OF MONETIZED BULLION, NONMONETIZED GOLD OR SILVER BULLION, AND NUMISMATIC COINS. Sales in bulk of "monetized bullion", nonmonetized gold or silver bullion, and numismatic coins which sales are substantially equivalent to transactions in securities or commodities through a national securities or commodities exchange, are exempt from both the sales tax and the use tax.

    for commiefornia, the platinum and palladium eagles are exempt over $1500, but not the ingots. also, all those copper rounds are taxable, too

    and here is a tricky one to collect for... New York State. It seems simple until you get to "coins" priced over a certain percentage of metal value.
    (27) Precious metal bullion sold for investment, provided that (i) the retailer, if so required, is registered pursuant to section three hundred fifty-nine-e of the general business law and (ii) the receipt or consideration given or contracted to be given for such bullion depends only on the value of the metal content of such bullion.  “Precious metal bullion” means bars, ingots or coins of gold, silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium, ruthenium or iridium, but shall not include bars, ingots or coins which have been manufactured, processed, assembled, fabricated or used for an industrial, professional, esthetic or artistic purpose.  Precious metal bullion shall be deemed to be sold for investment when it is sold for more than one thousand dollars and the purchaser or user or agent of either of them holds it in the same form as when it was purchased and does not manufacture, process, assemble or fabricate such bullion for its own use.  For purposes of this paragraph, the receipt or consideration given or contracted to be given shall be deemed to depend only on the value of the metal content if, at the time of sale or purchase at retail, such receipt or consideration does not exceed (i) one hundred forty percent, with respect to silver coins, or (ii) one hundred twenty percent, with respect to gold coins weighing one-quarter of an ounce or less, or (iii) one hundred fifteen percent, with respect to other coins, of the greater of (A) the daily closing bullion cash price of such metal in the open market or (B) the coins' face value at prevailing rates of exchange, or (iv), with respect to bars and ingots, one hundred fifteen percent of such bullion cash price of such metal.  Where there is no such closing price for such metal, the average of the bid and asked cash prices shall be substituted for such closing price.

    I guess at least some coins could qualify as tax exempt even, if the ratio is right. praise to the 69 bullion.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 32,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mesh said:
    SD Bullion, Provident & MCM does not collect

    MCM does collect FL tax on ebay, and then refunds via paypal if purchase is exempt.

    Conspiracy Theory: Deduction based on logic before it become based on fact.

  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've effectively stopped purchasing from the big metal sellers on eBay. I use to buy 20 Francs when eBay bucks promos were going on, however, the incentive is now gone with the 6.35% sales tax for being a Connecticut resident.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 23,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    sounds like compistatedicut errr I mean Connecticut. more more more, it never stops

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