SOME ONE IN CHICAGO IS BUILDING A HECK OF A COLLECTION-WE HAVE A MAJOR STOLEN COIN

specialistspecialist Posts: 963 ✭✭✭✭✭

I am sad to report, the 1893CC PCGS SP65+ CAC has apparently been stolen. We shipped it via USPS and the trail went dead in Chicago.

Much to our horror, after less then a week, the Postal Inspectors quit seeking it and declared it stolen. Yes, the coin was insured.

Obviously if any one sees or hears of the coin, please contact us ASAP.

This coin was very special to me. I am sad its gone. I really hope some where some how it turns up safe and not destroyed.

Thank you.

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Comments

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone ever use a reeeward with positive results? You know, no honor among thieves. Peace Roy

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 369 ✭✭✭

    They must know who held it last. Who is it ?

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 8,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Registered or Priority Express?

  • specialistspecialist Posts: 963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, that is the coin. I do not know how to do images. Thank you for posting it

    It was sent over night express mail with every done the way our insurance carriers require. It is our first loss in the 35+ tears we have been in biz.

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 369 ✭✭✭

    I guess you would know the safest way to ship. I think its too expensive to insure registered right ?

  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Damn

    Erik
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019 6:54PM

    :'( That sucks.

    P.S. Link to Coinfacts: pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1893-cc-1-bm

  • JasonGamingJasonGaming Posts: 537 ✭✭✭

    Wow. Unfortunate coin to lose. Registered is the way to go on high-priced pieces like that.

    Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

  • savitalesavitale Posts: 567 ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if the thief knew what was in the package. If not they will probably be disappointed to learn they have a coin that cannot be sold. If they did know, it probably will disappear for a couple generations at least.

    Maybe one could try offering a no-questions-asked reward?

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fiftysevener said:
    I guess you would know the safest way to ship. I think its too expensive to insure registered right ?

    No. Registered is now insured to $50K. You declare a value and pay a fee per thousand $$ for every thousand dollars of value over $50K. The fee is for extra security. If you fail to declare the true value and it gets lost or stolen the USPS will deny your entire claim based on the fact that had they known the true value they would have handled it differently.

  • btcollectsbtcollects Posts: 158 ✭✭✭

    @specialist said:

    This coin was very special to me. I am sad its gone.

    = some guys are gonna be tortured in basements before this is over

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    given the value of this coin I would think either the buyer or the seller would sacrifice a day and a few hundred Dollars to deliver it in person.

    You might have found a retirement gig.

  • ianrussellianrussell Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭✭

    This is terrible and I hope it turns up safe. It's not a coin that could appear on the market without someone knowing it.

    • Ian
    Ian Russell
    Owner/Founder GreatCollections
    GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 8,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    given the value of this coin I would think either the buyer or the seller would sacrifice a day and a few hundred Dollars to deliver it in person.

    No guarantees there either.

  • ARCOARCO Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems like thieves have a sixth sense for packages with valuable coins inside.

  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems to be a lot of packages and big ticket coins going missing in the last year or so... or maybe it has always been an issue and word is just spreading faster and better now?

    Bummer! Hoping for a quick recovery!

    My insurance also requires (prefers) overnight USPS express vs. registered mail. Registered mail, especially when the actual contents value is listed, just draws a ton of attention and is in the system for several days or even weeks depending on where it is going. An overnight USPS express box that costs about $40 to ship just looks like any other going through the system and is only in their hands for less than 24 hours.

    I used to think registered would still be better as each USPS employee has to sign for the package and they are responsible for it. But in reality, that doesn't seem to mean too much for the security of our coins as we've all heard of registered packages going missing recently.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 7,914 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. That's a terrible loss..... not just in monetary value either. While all coins are unique, pieces like this are historically important.

    I know the buyer will get his/her money back, but they obviously wanted the coin more than the money, right? It seems unfair that the insurance business doesn't compensate for this aspect of it.

    It's a rough world out there sometimes folks.

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 10,535 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OMG, terrible news to hear !!! :'(

    Timbuk3
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @illini420 said:
    I used to think registered would still be better as each USPS employee has to sign for the package and they are responsible for it. But in reality, that doesn't seem to mean too much for the security of our coins as we've all heard of registered packages going missing recently.

    Are the number of losses about the same for both methods or is one less than the other?

  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    given the value of this coin I would think either the buyer or the seller would sacrifice a day and a few hundred Dollars to deliver it in person.

    You mean a few thousand.

    Fortunately, or unfortunately, there is no way this coin surfaces without being outed.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • Wow sorry to hear about that what a heart breaking event.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019 9:30PM
  • DCWDCW Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gorgeous coin. Always sad to hear that a gem like this was ripped off. Hopefully the thief knows what they took and doesnt do something dumb (like melt it) Gasp!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 28,784 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could still resurface and wouldn't consider it stolen until after 35 days.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 36,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If this coin is cracked out and dipped bright white, are there enough marks to still identify it?

  • SweetpieSweetpie Posts: 221 ✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    Slab photo:


    Is this the right slab?
    OP mention its a SP65.

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You had me at Chicago.
    For those that have experience between registered and speedier shipping options, thank you for chiming in. I would still use registered, if only for the ease of a claim.
    From past post regarding stolen coins here on the forum, the most significant amount of angst with overnight mail has been from trying to convince the post office that you had valuable coins in your package.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • rickoricko Posts: 67,173 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a terrible loss.... there does seem to be a rash of thefts lately, and several seem to be around Chicago...The images by @AUandAG and the slab images do not seem to be the same coin... and one is SP and the other a PR... Cheers, RickO

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    Speaking of registered mail- we had our first registered mail package lost (stolen) in 22 years. Shipped to a Zip Code in Beverly Hills (where we were informed, but can’t verify, that more than 1 shipment was stolen). We insured it with the Post Office and they paid the claim, in full, in a matter of a couple weeks. We couldn’t have asked for a smoother claims process.

    Wondercoin.

    I'm glad that you were pleased with the claims process. That does not solve the problem, though.

    Sometimes it takes a while to catch thieves. They have to be set up and then caught in the act. That's not as easy as it sounds.

    If they keep stealing, the Inspection Service will eventually get them. But unfortunately there will be more thefts happen until the thief bites the wrong apple.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019 5:57AM

    That is, I believe, the Vermeule coin. Load of pictures available. It's a grand pedigree. Decades fro0m now, that sale will be remembered. Shame the label doesn't reflect this. The coin is brighter/flashier than most of the images posted so far.

    I too have adored this coin since I first saw it in 2001. Just sucks, Laurie, just totally sucks :/

    "What matters most is how well you walk through the fire" - Charles Bukowski
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 4,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What about FedEx's same day service? https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/same-day/choose-your-speed.html#fedex-sameday

    Regrets on stories like this are endless. How many people would have spent an extra large sum to turn back the clock with a different result?

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1893-cc-1-bm/7347/2319862595743782542

    Auction Details

    Legend Rare Coin Auctions
    Auction

    The Regency Auction 31
    Mar-2019

    FROM THE YOUNG-DAKOTA COLLECTION Legend Rare Coin Auctions is proud to offer one of the most important rarities in the Morgan Dollar series: the Branch Mint Proof 1893-CC. This coin has a regal bearing in our office; clearly, this AMAZING Proof is a high-end GEM! Everything about this coin screams Premium Quality! Boasting ultra deep and brilliantly gleaming mirrored fields that have a strong reflective flash that are clearly that of a Proof and not a PL or DMPL Mint State piece. Rich toning in diffused shades of teal-blue, pale rose, iridescent orange, and a soft olive-russet blend together for a notable and purely original look. The toning pattern is unmistakable helping to trace the provenance of this important coin to the Cornelius Vermeule III Collection. Every detail is deeply and crisply embossed by a strong and forceful blow from the dies, creating exacting definition on both sides, and leaving the the devices with a wonderful frosted effect. A strong glass reveals incredible surface quality; indeed the only contact is a small mark on Liberty’s jawline that again helps match this coin to the Vermeule Collection. The eye appeal is truly SUPERB and seductive, daring the viewer to put this marvel of American numismatics down. This is what is known as a “Class 1” Branch Mint Proof, a coin where there is official mint documentation of the occasion of striking; an honor shared by only the 1879-O, 1883-O, and 1921-S Zerbe. While no one knows for sure how many were struck, the estimate of a dozen goes back to the days of Wayte Raymond, when he theorized these were struck to commemorate the closing of the famed Carson City mint. Over the years, numismatic scholars have expanded on the diagnostics that identify these few 93-CC Branch Mint Proofs, including Wayne Miller who wrote in his 1982, The Morgan and Peace Dollar Textbook, describing one of these Proofs: “Although some cameo contrast is evident especially on reverse, this coin is more brilliant than cameo Proof. The fields are deeply mirrored and the strike is very bold. The piece is an obvious Proof at first glance.” Most known examples were struck from the VAM-2 die pair, whose diagnostics include traces of recutting on the right side of the 3 in the date, some short die cracks that connect six obverse stars on the left and 3 on the right. A key diagnostic is the downward-right tilt of the CC mintmark. The estimated mintage figure of 12 was repeated by Walter Breen, who enumerated four known examples. In the 2001 Stack’s Catalog of the Vermeule Collection, the cataloger enumerated five: Amon Carter; Norweb; Eliasberg (called a “Deep mirror prooflike Gem, Possible Branch Mint Proof); King Farouk; and the Wayne Miller “1972 discovery” coin. Today, the total certified population (includes duplicate submissions, crossovers, etc) list 20 graded between PCGS and NGC in all grades and designations. We know, for a fact, over the years certain coins have been regraded, crossed over and perhaps their owners have yet to return the old inserts, making for a messy Population Report and Census data from the services. While the November 2001 Vermeule catalog does not list a previous pedigree, it is possible that like the FINEST KNOWN 1893-S Morgan dollar that immediately followed this coin, it was obtained directly from the mint, or from the person who did so. In the last decade, there have been four examples graded by PCGS and one NGC coin sold in auction: The Amon Carter coin, sold in our December 2014 auction, graded PCGS PR64 CAC (now a PR65); a PCGS PR64 CAM CAC that sold in August 2011; and this coin, which last sold in the 2012 ANA auction. The Greensboro coin, which was called a Branch Mint “Specimen” struck from a different set of dies (VAM-3, rather than VAM-2), graded SP65 by PCGS sold in the 2013 Central States auction. An NGC PR66 CAM also sold in July 2013. PCGS 2, NGC 3, CAC 2. This is the ONLY PR65+ graded at either service in any designation. As a PR65, this coin realized $218,500 in the 2012 ANA auction, and the current Collector’s Universe value is listed at $245,000, a figure that seems too low and is just a guess. Do not confuse this one with the Amon Carter coin. The only coin graded finer to have ever sold in auction is the NGC PR65 CAM that sold in July 2013 for $323,125 (likely the PCGS PR66 listed on the Population Report). This coin serves as the PCGS CoinFacts Plate Coin. It is indeed our pleasure to offer this important numismatic treasure in our Regency Auction 31. This is a major opportunity for the advanced collector to acquire one of the most historically significant Morgan dollar issues, a coin that has a classic look and great pedigree. The market for high end, rare Morgan dollars is very strong today, and for the advanced collector looking to set their set above the rest, this amazing and high end Branch Mint Proof is a coin that will take your collection to a completely different level! Cert. Number 26216912 PCGS # 7347

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 778 ✭✭✭✭

    That coin will show up. Best regards, Michael

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist
    Sorry for the trouble you are having, please keep us posted of any updates :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 29,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019 6:53AM

    @topstuf said:
    It's pointless to argue shipping decisions if their insurance specifies how to ship.

    True, but you always have the option to ship your way and use USPS/carrier insurance. As long as I'm made whole that's all that matters.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm VERY sorry to hear about your Morgan treasure going missing. I get nauseous just reading this. I hope that it turns up!!!

    Walking Liberty Sets

    "Looking back, of course, it was irresponsible, mad, forlorn and idiotic but, if you don't take chances, then you'll never have a winning hand and I have no regrets."--Bernard Cornwell.
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 8,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @topstuf said:
    It's pointless to argue shipping decisions if their insurance specifies how to ship.

    True, but you always have the option to ship your way and use USPS/carrier insurance. As long as I'm made whole that's all that matters.

    Registered insurance maxes well before the $300,000 value of the OP coin.

  • Very unfortunate to hear, I had an opportunity to spend some extra time on this example for last month's Legend sale.

    Brett Charville --- President - PCGS

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sad news indeed. :'(
    There is a fair chance the coin will be recovered being the high profile & high dollar coin that it is. There is also a fair chance the coin will be retained as evidence for a trial if someone is caught with the coin. The coin could end up in a government auction 3 or 4 years from now.

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭

    It baffles me... :o
    I have ONLY one IMO important question here:
    why does the TBG not embed a secret mini-micro tag into the slab when the coin is graded?
    Nobody has to be told about it.It simply comes with the grading service and it would not interfere with the viewing pleasure of the coin through the slab.
    our host and other TPGs would do the high end collection community a huge favor and it would deter
    many thefts. The tracing/ tracking and programming opportunities are endless.
    simple????/ right???
    with coins costing stratospheric money, the extra cost is peanuts!!
    so, why not?

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jeez, the stuff I'm reading.
    Am I the only one who saw Laura's post that her INSURANCE COMPANY decides how to ship?
    If she ships as they require, she will be covered.

    I highly doubt the insurance company is going to be so complacent about recovery that they would allow the coin to be auctioned by the state unless that's what they would want.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That sucks! That's an awesome coin! I hope it turns up...

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