I follow and bid on their auctions regularly. I try to avoid their auctions that have 85 bids from 10 bidders, where if the 10th bidder got removed, the bid count would go back to 11 or 12. There seem to be a lot of bidders that have a high % of their bids on only PWCC auctions.
EagleEyeKid said:
I have never bought a single card from pwcc. Never had a problem getting the same thing from other sellers and saving a bundle for what I'm looking for.
This is almost exactly what I came here to post. Good to know someone else out there feels the same way.
Well lump me in with you guys because I'm sure not going to pay more money just because of some sellers reputation.
This, by the way, is why I mow my own lawn instead of paying Matt to do it
Your title may be your answer! PWCC is a great marketer and great marketers encourage people pay more for the same product vs others.
From a marketing perspective I see the following reasons PWCC prices earn more:
1. How many cards do you click on PWCC to look at or bid on? Simply by clicking on their auctions, eBay very likely has an algorithm which in turn shows you more of their auctions vs others thereby increasing views. Increased views = increased final price
2. 99 cent bids attract uber low bidders who likely won't be competing for the card, this drives up # of bidders / bids thereby creating the perception of high demand.
3. how many times is there a card you want on PWCC and then search their other auctions for similar items? I do this... especially to save via combined shipping. This increases views
4. They apparently have a good quality process with scans, etc all the other items mentioned above. This drives a premium
This next point isn't related to marketing but I keep hearing people complain about shilling. All auction houses let you bid on your own product driving up the price. Some are good at encouraging a reserve price or minimum to be more transparent but no auction house forbids you from bidding on your own stuff
Disclaimer: I've never bought anything from PWCC but from a business standpoint I'm jealous of the niche they've carved out and how well they are doing!
@davidlisa said:
For me, many of the cards I buy are worth the premium. I like centered cards with high quality photography. I know the transaction will go smoothly and the shipping will be fine. Ebay has brought a lot of good cards to market but there is a lot of fraud and quite frankly a lot of stupid people I just choose not to deal with. I rarely buy an item on Ebay if it isn't PWCC or another seller I trust of which there are very few. If you want to save a few dollars go ahead and take the risk but it's not for me.
What “risk”? Pick a seller with hundreds if not thousands of transactions with 99.5% or higher positive feedback, couple that with eBay buyer protection, double down with PayPal buyer protection too and there is literally zero risk. Unless, I suppose, you consider packages damaged in transit or lost, but that has ZERO to do with the seller!
@davidlisa said:
For me, many of the cards I buy are worth the premium. I like centered cards with high quality photography. I know the transaction will go smoothly and the shipping will be fine. Ebay has brought a lot of good cards to market but there is a lot of fraud and quite frankly a lot of stupid people I just choose not to deal with. I rarely buy an item on Ebay if it isn't PWCC or another seller I trust of which there are very few. If you want to save a few dollars go ahead and take the risk but it's not for me.
What “risk”? Pick a seller with hundreds if not thousands of transactions with 99.5% or higher positive feedback, couple that with eBay buyer protection, double down with PayPal buyer protection too and there is literally zero risk. Unless, I suppose, you consider packages damaged in transit or lost, but that has ZERO to do with the seller
I agree Dan. Also even more protection when using a credit card through PayPal.
While I think the 50% premium is an exception, there is a premium - I bid often and win rarely with PWCC.
I like them because:
1) They have excellent pictures of both the front and the back - willing to pay a little more to know the card in hand will look like the scan - no wired angles, blurry photos, or having to contact them to see the back.
2) The auctions end at convenient times. I do not snipe because I will not let a sniping service have my eBay ID and password.
3) Their database is an excellent source to see scans of cards in the same grade with the same quality scans.
4) If a card has not been sold in a while they help establish a high price of what the market will bear. This information is useful to know which buy it nows I like when coupons come out.
5) They have a fairly large selection of higher grades SGC cards. Since I am PSA/SGC agnostic - it is a way for me to get really nice cards at a slight discount.
I really like the fact that some folks totally skip their auctions. As a BUYER, I think the less eyes on the listing the better my chances of getting a good deal...
@DotStore said:
I really like the fact that some folks totally skip their auctions. As a BUYER, I think the less eyes on the listing the better my chances of getting a good deal...
it dosent work that way with them. they have "investors" so if you bid or not , its gonna get bought
I think its hilarious the amount of exposure PWCC is getting by simple debates like this on forums. It's everywhere and sellers are lining up to consign to them.
I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but while PWCC auctions can go off and bring in big bucks, I have had many good buys (cards I could flip next day for 20%+ more) and a few consignments that came in below the lowest previous sale. On constant I do see is that if a card or player is hot on ebay, a PWCC auction for said card gets muy en fuego!
@PADIdiver said:
Your title may be your answer! PWCC is a great marketer and great marketers encourage people pay more for the same product vs others.
From a marketing perspective I see the following reasons PWCC prices earn more:
1. How many cards do you click on PWCC to look at or bid on? Simply by clicking on their auctions, eBay very likely has an algorithm which in turn shows you more of their auctions vs others thereby increasing views. Increased views = increased final price
2. 99 cent bids attract uber low bidders who likely won't be competing for the card, this drives up # of bidders / bids thereby creating the perception of high demand.
3. how many times is there a card you want on PWCC and then search their other auctions for similar items? I do this... especially to save via combined shipping. This increases views
4. They apparently have a good quality process with scans, etc all the other items mentioned above. This drives a premium
This next point isn't related to marketing but I keep hearing people complain about shilling. All auction houses let you bid on your own product driving up the price. Some are good at encouraging a reserve price or minimum to be more transparent but no auction house forbids you from bidding on your own stuff
Disclaimer: I've never bought anything from PWCC but from a business standpoint I'm jealous of the niche they've carved out and how well they are doing!
Is this really allowed by all auction houses? Isn't this shill bidding?
@doubledragon said:
Where's the love for Probstein? Come on now people, consign with uncle Rick.😉
From a Buyer's perspective, I've won a few auctions from Probstein, and I'm happy with all of those purchases. I have not sold anything yet using a consignment center such as Probstein or PWCC. I do think that PWCC Listings have a more professional look and feel to them.
@doubledragon said:
Where's the love for Probstein? Come on now people, consign with uncle Rick.😉
My one and only consignment with Rick went badly and cost me money due to a listing error (fewer packs - 6) than the box actually had . I wasn't notified when the item was listed and didn't catch it.
On the buy side I have been happy with buying from Rick. If you have patience, you get get good deals due to some of the "clerical" issues with the scan or description.
@doubledragon said:
Where's the love for Probstein? Come on now people, consign with uncle Rick.😉
Probstein should not be in this hobby. How he has made it this far, I have no idea.
He knows nothing about cards. His staff knows even less. They ship poorly- often placing things in a sloppy manner inside envelopes.
It took them forever to catch up to modern marketing of cards. They take awful photos, have no description, and think combined shipping is a crime.
Is this really allowed by all auction houses? Isn't this shill bidding?
It looks like it depends on the state you are in. I thought there were at least 2 that allowed this practice but I've only found one right now (although honestly the terms and conditions are a lot of legalese so I could be mis-reading it). I only looked for terms where the seller is allowed to bid on their own items.
@doubledragon said:
Where's the love for Probstein? Come on now people, consign with uncle Rick.😉
Probstein should not be in this hobby. How he has made it this far, I have no idea.
He knows nothing about cards. His staff knows even less. They ship poorly- often placing things in a sloppy manner inside envelopes.
It took them forever to catch up to modern marketing of cards. They take awful photos, have no description, and think combined shipping is a crime.
Based on the auctions I have seen, their photos are not the worst I've seen. Their photos are not like PWCC, but better than average (imho). And regarding "combined shipping" - their policy to allow combined shipping is why I bought several items from them. Their listings state (the ones I have seen and/or won) "we allow up to 10 days to combine for reduced shipping..."
I do find it ironic that one person in here complaining about PWCC is actually, themselves, a truly atrocious seller.
For the most part, auction Houses don't allow or encourage people to bid on their own items. In fact, contrary to what the guy above said, many expressly forbid the practice both in language and in practice. Heritage will bid on items in their auctions and they know your max bid (it's legal in TX). That's the only AH I can think of that states the practice in their TOS.
There are honest auction houses out there that don't do it because they know their reputation is more valuable than some extra bid increases, much like why Steve doesn't search his packs. But the uneducated usually take the cynical side and just throw up their arms in defeat and proclaim "they're ALL bad! They're ALL doing it!"
I had a few cards sitting in my store collecting dust recently with low after low ball offer. Sent them to Pwcc and got 20-30% more than what I was asking.
@addicted2ebay said:
I had a few cards sitting in my store collecting dust recently with low after low ball offer. Sent them to Pwcc and got 20-30% more than what I was asking.
I've never consigned with either, but I win auctions from both Probstein and PWCC. Not as much as I used to, but some. I player collect, set collect and sometimes just bid on something that looks good - point being I'm involved in auction bidding at all different levels from a few bucks to multiple thousands of dollars.
More often than not, I find PWCC prices are higher than what I can get certain things from other places. However, some of the prices are probably also influenced by multiple auction wins, and in some other cases maybe something slips through for less than expected. I know in the last auction. This is true at both I think, particularly on graded commons/semi-stars for set building. I recently won some 1956s I needed for my set, and I did bid a little too much on a couple because I got a better deal on the first couple. I bunched them in my mind into a single purchase, not multiple purchases of single cards.
However, I do not understand why anyone would pay more just because PWCC is selling it, that I believe is just a lack of education - and I do think that occurs all the time. Particularly on the modern stuff, why would PWCC consistently sell for more than someone else when there are buy it nows available for less? In the modern game, there's not that much difference in PSA 10s. In the vintage, different story (because they're mostly PSA 8s and lower, so the sliding scale on the grade is a bit wider).
I've also seen plenty of instances where cards sold at other auction houses were later sent to PWCC, and they didn't meet the previous price and in some cases were much lower. Can't really assess why that is without knowing more details about the seller, how much they're spending, are they consigning something to pay a new bill, etc. That's pretty complicated to ascertain much without those detail. There's also plenty of instances where PWCC sold it in one auction, it came back an auction or two later and went for less. You see the results on both sides of it. That's probably one of the things I value most about VCP, is being able to see that happen to specific cards.
PWCC ships quickly, they do answer questions pretty quickly, the the scans are really good. The descriptions are sometimes quite "flowery", I don't like that but it's become the norm.
I think across the entire card spectrum, it's tough to make some of these generalities about the prices. However, certainly in the vintage space (which is where I spend the most so I see it the most) PWCC does pretty consistently have higher prices - which brings with it what I think is healthy skepticism about what's going on within the bidding.
On a single graded card, I for one would never pay significantly more because it's PWCC versus someone else. In my opinion, anyone who is doing that consistently must have some other motive/incentive to do so.
Great post IMHO! In a nutshell I think some people overpay for all the wrong reasons and I think there is a good possibility that a certain amount of people shill bid their auctions either through a friend or an alternate ID or IP address. Bottom line is that you should look at everything: Quality of card, recent sales, pop report, how bad you want it, etc.... BUT don't overpay because they have a good reputation and their auctions bring high prices.
@garnettstyle said:
With ebays money back guarantee, there is no reason to pay that much more for PWCC cards. Makes no sense.
Even with all the cheerleaders, this is the bottom line. Plenty of these cards come up between pwcc then probstein and then others until some "bag holder" overpays hoping to flip the card the following week. The will deter people from continuing to invest in the market, and it's just a matter of time.
The 1% of guys on this forum that pay 3x last vcp for that centered card, arent concerned with future value, but when they aren't buying, dont catch that falling knife
The way I look at it the highest graded and most expensive cards aren’t what I can collect anyway so what do I care what they go for? The guys paying those prices aren’t my competition.
And I still don’t win.
What was my point?
May not have had one. It happens.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@ReggieCleveland said:
I do find it ironic that one person in here complaining about PWCC is actually, themselves, a truly atrocious seller.
For the most part, auction Houses don't allow or encourage people to bid on their own items. In fact, contrary to what the guy above said, many expressly forbid the practice both in language and in practice. Heritage will bid on items in their auctions and they know your max bid (it's legal in TX). That's the only AH I can think of that states the practice in their TOS.
There are honest auction houses out there that don't do it because they know their reputation is more valuable than some extra bid increases, much like why Steve doesn't search his packs. But the uneducated usually take the cynical side and just throw up their arms in defeat and proclaim "they're ALL bad! They're ALL doing it!"
Arthur
Thanks for the clarification Arthur... I wasn't sure what happened in practice but when reading some t&c's it just seemed like there was some leeway. When I re-read them now you are correct. I didn't name any auction houses just in case for that reason.
I bid higher and/or more aggressively for PWCC auctions . I have never had even a minor issue with them which I can't say for the rest of my eBay transactions. I know exactly what I am getting, no off angle photos or poor scans. I can also pay with proceeds from my consignments so many purchases end up costing me zero dollars out of pocket. I do bid and buy from lots of different eBay sellers but for the harder to find items in my collection many of them end up being sold by PWCC.
As for shilling, there are more complaints and fears of it happening with PWCC than the reality of it.
@garnettstyle said:
With ebays money back guarantee, there is no reason to pay that much more for PWCC cards. Makes no sense.
Even with all the cheerleaders, this is the bottom line. Plenty of these cards come up between pwcc then probstein and then others until some "bag holder" overpays hoping to flip the card the following week. The will deter people from continuing to invest in the market, and it's just a matter of time.
The 1% of guys on this forum that pay 3x last vcp for that centered card, arent concerned with future value, but when they aren't buying, dont catch that falling knife
This could become "famous last words", but for the veteran collectors out there, have you ever seen the market this strong? Across the board it seems like every sector is in a bull market. The modern football box market is crazy right now. I think you would have made big returns if you bought every 10 of every 2018 football box and sat on it for 2 months for a flip.
It's getting to the point where you really have to consider life's priorities. I did a rough calculation of some of the top items in my collection and the number I ended up with is big enough where I need to decide whether I should continue owning these items or putting the money into my kids college fund. I hope my wife isn't a board member or she may make me send the lot to PWCC (or Probstein )
These days on Ebay it seems like every card auction is highly contested. Every time I enter an auction I meet heavy resistance from other bidders. To me it seems like the whole planet is into collecting cards nowadays.
You are hearing more and more about investing in cards. That is normally a sign of the end of a run rather than the beginning. Some cards will survive and thrive regardless but personally I would be looking to sell items that have exploded in value. I sold some cards into the frenzy a few years back (sold a little too late but still did fairly well) and have started selling some other cards into this current market. Unfortunately, I then plow most of the proceeds into more cards but net-net I lighten up on the top end while knocking off cards from my want list.
@doubledragon said:
These days on Ebay it seems like every card auction is highly contested. Every time I enter an auction I meet heavy resistance from other bidders. To me it seems like the whole planet is into collecting cards nowadays.
investors, not collectors , investors.....portfolios etc
I saw that one - this happened with Kareem before, though. This one is nice looking for sure, centering on these is brutal even within the PSA 8 range.
As for shilling, there are more complaints and fears of it happening with PWCC than the reality of it.
I bid higher and/or more aggressively for PWCC auctions
Broadly, true. Specifically, it's not hard to find it in numerous auctions from each round.
But are you aggressively bidding 150% of normal selling price, where normal is more than say $100?
There's a lot of 'fake shilling' going on too, using a secondary account to chip bid, retract, and hopefully scare away others interested in an item to win at a better price.
As for the PWCC vs Probstein consignment discussion, if you want to have to worry about your items being lost or stolen then send them to Probstein.
Specifically, it's not hard to find it in numerous auctions from each round.
It is not hard to find what people suspect is shilling but I would hazard a guess that people are wrong most of the time about what is actually going on with an auction they suspect was shilled. It reminds me of how often people claim high dollar completed auction sales are fraudulent or didn't happen when the vast majority get paid for. They find one or two examples of an unpaid high dollar transaction and then try to apply to that to a much broader group of transactions.
As for PWCC, I have definitely put in some nuclear snipes at 150% or 200% of highest previous sales. I am a collector, if I lose out on a card a couple times or something I've been waiting to see pops up I will definitely go nuclear. Sometimes it works great and sometimes I am way in the hole on a card. However, none of it matters in the aggregate because I collect because I like cards not because I am worried what I paid for a card or how much it is worth. I have some cards on my eBay watch list that I lost because I wasn't aggressive enough and either another one hasn't shown up or when another one did show up a couple years later I paid double or triple what the one I lost went for.
For the past 15-20 years, I heard collectors chime “buy the card, not the holder.” Now, as PWCC bidders pay a premium for the card, despite the holder, they get criticized.
Answers
I follow and bid on their auctions regularly. I try to avoid their auctions that have 85 bids from 10 bidders, where if the 10th bidder got removed, the bid count would go back to 11 or 12. There seem to be a lot of bidders that have a high % of their bids on only PWCC auctions.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
This, by the way, is why I mow my own lawn instead of paying Matt to do it
.
Your title may be your answer! PWCC is a great marketer and great marketers encourage people pay more for the same product vs others.
From a marketing perspective I see the following reasons PWCC prices earn more:
1. How many cards do you click on PWCC to look at or bid on? Simply by clicking on their auctions, eBay very likely has an algorithm which in turn shows you more of their auctions vs others thereby increasing views. Increased views = increased final price
2. 99 cent bids attract uber low bidders who likely won't be competing for the card, this drives up # of bidders / bids thereby creating the perception of high demand.
3. how many times is there a card you want on PWCC and then search their other auctions for similar items? I do this... especially to save via combined shipping. This increases views
4. They apparently have a good quality process with scans, etc all the other items mentioned above. This drives a premium
This next point isn't related to marketing but I keep hearing people complain about shilling. All auction houses let you bid on your own product driving up the price. Some are good at encouraging a reserve price or minimum to be more transparent but no auction house forbids you from bidding on your own stuff
Disclaimer: I've never bought anything from PWCC but from a business standpoint I'm jealous of the niche they've carved out and how well they are doing!
What “risk”? Pick a seller with hundreds if not thousands of transactions with 99.5% or higher positive feedback, couple that with eBay buyer protection, double down with PayPal buyer protection too and there is literally zero risk. Unless, I suppose, you consider packages damaged in transit or lost, but that has ZERO to do with the seller!
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
This place could use a little excitement sometimes. Last thing we need is a zombie graveyard.
Zombies everywhere are now offended. Good job. Please remember, zombies have feelings too. Especially if you double tap them.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
I agree Dan. Also even more protection when using a credit card through PayPal.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
While I think the 50% premium is an exception, there is a premium - I bid often and win rarely with PWCC.
I like them because:
1) They have excellent pictures of both the front and the back - willing to pay a little more to know the card in hand will look like the scan - no wired angles, blurry photos, or having to contact them to see the back.
2) The auctions end at convenient times. I do not snipe because I will not let a sniping service have my eBay ID and password.
3) Their database is an excellent source to see scans of cards in the same grade with the same quality scans.
4) If a card has not been sold in a while they help establish a high price of what the market will bear. This information is useful to know which buy it nows I like when coupons come out.
5) They have a fairly large selection of higher grades SGC cards. Since I am PSA/SGC agnostic - it is a way for me to get really nice cards at a slight discount.
I really like the fact that some folks totally skip their auctions. As a BUYER, I think the less eyes on the listing the better my chances of getting a good deal...
it dosent work that way with them. they have "investors" so if you bid or not , its gonna get bought
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
snowflakemovement
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
I think its hilarious the amount of exposure PWCC is getting by simple debates like this on forums. It's everywhere and sellers are lining up to consign to them.
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but while PWCC auctions can go off and bring in big bucks, I have had many good buys (cards I could flip next day for 20%+ more) and a few consignments that came in below the lowest previous sale. On constant I do see is that if a card or player is hot on ebay, a PWCC auction for said card gets muy en fuego!
Is this really allowed by all auction houses? Isn't this shill bidding?
Where's the love for Probstein? Come on now people, consign with uncle Rick.😉
Their customer service leaves MUCH to be desired. IF they provided top-notch customer service they would be unstoppable.
From a Buyer's perspective, I've won a few auctions from Probstein, and I'm happy with all of those purchases. I have not sold anything yet using a consignment center such as Probstein or PWCC. I do think that PWCC Listings have a more professional look and feel to them.
My one and only consignment with Rick went badly and cost me money due to a listing error (fewer packs - 6) than the box actually had . I wasn't notified when the item was listed and didn't catch it.
On the buy side I have been happy with buying from Rick. If you have patience, you get get good deals due to some of the "clerical" issues with the scan or description.
Wow, another pwcc thread...
Good ol' grand pappy Rick.
Ol' paw pappy Rick
It looks like it depends on the state you are in. I thought there were at least 2 that allowed this practice but I've only found one right now (although honestly the terms and conditions are a lot of legalese so I could be mis-reading it). I only looked for terms where the seller is allowed to bid on their own items.
Based on the auctions I have seen, their photos are not the worst I've seen. Their photos are not like PWCC, but better than average (imho). And regarding "combined shipping" - their policy to allow combined shipping is why I bought several items from them. Their listings state (the ones I have seen and/or won) "we allow up to 10 days to combine for reduced shipping..."
I do find it ironic that one person in here complaining about PWCC is actually, themselves, a truly atrocious seller.
For the most part, auction Houses don't allow or encourage people to bid on their own items. In fact, contrary to what the guy above said, many expressly forbid the practice both in language and in practice. Heritage will bid on items in their auctions and they know your max bid (it's legal in TX). That's the only AH I can think of that states the practice in their TOS.
There are honest auction houses out there that don't do it because they know their reputation is more valuable than some extra bid increases, much like why Steve doesn't search his packs. But the uneducated usually take the cynical side and just throw up their arms in defeat and proclaim "they're ALL bad! They're ALL doing it!"
Arthur
I had a few cards sitting in my store collecting dust recently with low after low ball offer. Sent them to Pwcc and got 20-30% more than what I was asking.
hahaah awesome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Has Probstein phased out $0.99 auctions? 90% of what they're listing lately seems to have high minimum bids.
Didn't know that. Probstein is very determined to push PWCC out of the way. Somebody better look out.
I've never consigned with either, but I win auctions from both Probstein and PWCC. Not as much as I used to, but some. I player collect, set collect and sometimes just bid on something that looks good - point being I'm involved in auction bidding at all different levels from a few bucks to multiple thousands of dollars.
More often than not, I find PWCC prices are higher than what I can get certain things from other places. However, some of the prices are probably also influenced by multiple auction wins, and in some other cases maybe something slips through for less than expected. I know in the last auction. This is true at both I think, particularly on graded commons/semi-stars for set building. I recently won some 1956s I needed for my set, and I did bid a little too much on a couple because I got a better deal on the first couple. I bunched them in my mind into a single purchase, not multiple purchases of single cards.
However, I do not understand why anyone would pay more just because PWCC is selling it, that I believe is just a lack of education - and I do think that occurs all the time. Particularly on the modern stuff, why would PWCC consistently sell for more than someone else when there are buy it nows available for less? In the modern game, there's not that much difference in PSA 10s. In the vintage, different story (because they're mostly PSA 8s and lower, so the sliding scale on the grade is a bit wider).
I've also seen plenty of instances where cards sold at other auction houses were later sent to PWCC, and they didn't meet the previous price and in some cases were much lower. Can't really assess why that is without knowing more details about the seller, how much they're spending, are they consigning something to pay a new bill, etc. That's pretty complicated to ascertain much without those detail. There's also plenty of instances where PWCC sold it in one auction, it came back an auction or two later and went for less. You see the results on both sides of it. That's probably one of the things I value most about VCP, is being able to see that happen to specific cards.
PWCC ships quickly, they do answer questions pretty quickly, the the scans are really good. The descriptions are sometimes quite "flowery", I don't like that but it's become the norm.
I think across the entire card spectrum, it's tough to make some of these generalities about the prices. However, certainly in the vintage space (which is where I spend the most so I see it the most) PWCC does pretty consistently have higher prices - which brings with it what I think is healthy skepticism about what's going on within the bidding.
On a single graded card, I for one would never pay significantly more because it's PWCC versus someone else. In my opinion, anyone who is doing that consistently must have some other motive/incentive to do so.
Great post IMHO! In a nutshell I think some people overpay for all the wrong reasons and I think there is a good possibility that a certain amount of people shill bid their auctions either through a friend or an alternate ID or IP address. Bottom line is that you should look at everything: Quality of card, recent sales, pop report, how bad you want it, etc.... BUT don't overpay because they have a good reputation and their auctions bring high prices.
With ebays money back guarantee, there is no reason to pay that much more for PWCC cards. Makes no sense.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Even with all the cheerleaders, this is the bottom line. Plenty of these cards come up between pwcc then probstein and then others until some "bag holder" overpays hoping to flip the card the following week. The will deter people from continuing to invest in the market, and it's just a matter of time.
The 1% of guys on this forum that pay 3x last vcp for that centered card, arent concerned with future value, but when they aren't buying, dont catch that falling knife
The way I look at it the highest graded and most expensive cards aren’t what I can collect anyway so what do I care what they go for? The guys paying those prices aren’t my competition.
And I still don’t win.
What was my point?
May not have had one. It happens.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Thanks for the clarification Arthur... I wasn't sure what happened in practice but when reading some t&c's it just seemed like there was some leeway. When I re-read them now you are correct. I didn't name any auction houses just in case for that reason.
I bid higher and/or more aggressively for PWCC auctions . I have never had even a minor issue with them which I can't say for the rest of my eBay transactions. I know exactly what I am getting, no off angle photos or poor scans. I can also pay with proceeds from my consignments so many purchases end up costing me zero dollars out of pocket. I do bid and buy from lots of different eBay sellers but for the harder to find items in my collection many of them end up being sold by PWCC.
As for shilling, there are more complaints and fears of it happening with PWCC than the reality of it.
Robb
This could become "famous last words", but for the veteran collectors out there, have you ever seen the market this strong? Across the board it seems like every sector is in a bull market. The modern football box market is crazy right now. I think you would have made big returns if you bought every 10 of every 2018 football box and sat on it for 2 months for a flip.
It's getting to the point where you really have to consider life's priorities. I did a rough calculation of some of the top items in my collection and the number I ended up with is big enough where I need to decide whether I should continue owning these items or putting the money into my kids college fund. I hope my wife isn't a board member or she may make me send the lot to PWCC (or Probstein
)
These days on Ebay it seems like every card auction is highly contested. Every time I enter an auction I meet heavy resistance from other bidders. To me it seems like the whole planet is into collecting cards nowadays.
Some eye popping prices tonight....a psa 8 Kareem RC 8k WOW!
You are hearing more and more about investing in cards. That is normally a sign of the end of a run rather than the beginning. Some cards will survive and thrive regardless but personally I would be looking to sell items that have exploded in value. I sold some cards into the frenzy a few years back (sold a little too late but still did fairly well) and have started selling some other cards into this current market. Unfortunately, I then plow most of the proceeds into more cards but net-net I lighten up on the top end while knocking off cards from my want list.
Robb
Is that why there are so many football fans who do NOT like a certain team in the Northeast??? Although I wish I had more rookie cards of their QB...
investors, not collectors , investors.....portfolios etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
I saw that one - this happened with Kareem before, though. This one is nice looking for sure, centering on these is brutal even within the PSA 8 range.
+100!
H.A.T.E.R.S. =
Having
Anger
Towards
Everyone
Reaching
Success
Broadly, true. Specifically, it's not hard to find it in numerous auctions from each round.
But are you aggressively bidding 150% of normal selling price, where normal is more than say $100?
There's a lot of 'fake shilling' going on too, using a secondary account to chip bid, retract, and hopefully scare away others interested in an item to win at a better price.
As for the PWCC vs Probstein consignment discussion, if you want to have to worry about your items being lost or stolen then send them to Probstein.
Specifically, it's not hard to find it in numerous auctions from each round.
It is not hard to find what people suspect is shilling but I would hazard a guess that people are wrong most of the time about what is actually going on with an auction they suspect was shilled. It reminds me of how often people claim high dollar completed auction sales are fraudulent or didn't happen when the vast majority get paid for. They find one or two examples of an unpaid high dollar transaction and then try to apply to that to a much broader group of transactions.
As for PWCC, I have definitely put in some nuclear snipes at 150% or 200% of highest previous sales. I am a collector, if I lose out on a card a couple times or something I've been waiting to see pops up I will definitely go nuclear. Sometimes it works great and sometimes I am way in the hole on a card. However, none of it matters in the aggregate because I collect because I like cards not because I am worried what I paid for a card or how much it is worth. I have some cards on my eBay watch list that I lost because I wasn't aggressive enough and either another one hasn't shown up or when another one did show up a couple years later I paid double or triple what the one I lost went for.
Robb
For the past 15-20 years, I heard collectors chime “buy the card, not the holder.” Now, as PWCC bidders pay a premium for the card, despite the holder, they get criticized.
Prior sales are irrelevant to some people.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss