I know PWCC is a great marketer but JEEZ LOUISE

tigerdean

I just don't buy that people routinely pay 50% more for the same cards just because it is auctioned by them. Things that make you go HMMMMMM. I am about to the point that I am going to just have to blow by their listings.

rcmb3220

Great scans, cards are usually good examples for their grade, not having to deal with some whack job that leaves you wondering how they get through life. All of this is worth something but not +50%.

dictoresno1

they also have very HQ scans, some people really chase very high quality cards (color and centering) which their scans augment vs your average persons auction.

DotStore

@tigerdean said:
I just don't buy that people routinely pay 50% more for the same cards just because it is auctioned by them. Things that make you go HMMMMMM. I am about to the point that I am going to just have to blow by their listings.

They do seem to get more for their auctions. Especially when they put their own hologram on it (better eye appeal according to their reviewers).

But there's something to say for their service - if you are selling a premium card it might be best to auction it through them vs. doing it yourself. You could realize more net cash based on their followers and marketing techniques...

handyman

" I am about to the point that I am going to just have to blow by their listings."

This but take out the "about"

tigerdean

Rcmb, you made me LMAO. My thoughts exactly. 10 to 20% maybe. 50% is just dumb.

tigerdean

Well that may be correct, but then again I think unscrupulous activity happens frequently in many transactions these days in many varied aspects of business and IMHO there are also those that just have more money than brains in their pocket and are willing to pay 50% more than what a card is worth.

doubledragon

PWCC is like the Grateful Dead. People just follow them wherever they go.😂

akuracy503

There is no auctioneer consistently bringing the type of cards PWCC does. It’s ground breaking and it’s obvious the high appeal material is getting consigned to them routinely. I would be worried if I were some of the smaller AH’s.

Just wait until they have their Vault marketplace. Listing BIN’s. It will be the single greatest marketplace for the best of the best cards. It won’t even be close.

stevek

There is an old saying in business, "Never underestimate what the American public will pay for convenience."

I think when it comes to internet sellers, words such as reliability, quality, etc, could be added to the above.

1951WheatiesPremium

@tigerdean said:
Well that may be correct, but then again I think unscrupulous activity happens frequently in many transactions these days in many varied aspects of business and IMHO there are also those that just have more money than brains in their pocket and are willing to pay 50% more than what a card is worth.

Actually, when it comes to this stuff reputation is everything. That’s why PWCC is successful - you don’t find too many disappointed buyers or sellers. Sort of similar to PSA, you don’t just pay for the service but the brand as well. PSA, SGC and BVG all grade cards. I think 98 percent would say all are pretty well respected. Which one do you want you’re 10’s in? Like all three are 10s of your ideal card and you have money for any.

Pick one.

On these boards (and in the market) for most cards the answer is going to be PSA because of the brand. Doesn’t disparage the other two just like saying this about PWCC doesn’t disparage the many awesome auction houses that exist. But a great reputation, quality service and high prices are like Bo Duke, Luke Duke and the General Lee - expect many ‘high flying’ adventures when all three are found together. That’s Business 101.

I think this is what it comes down to for most people with PWCC (and PSA, for that matter) - the service is unquestionably legitimate and therefore it is worth it to most to be paying some type of premium for it.

I mean, raise your hand if you ever saw something on eBay - even in a slab - where you passed on it because the seller looked sketchy? Or even just took a sellers word on condition?

doubledragon

In the end it all boils down to PWCC's reputation for rock solid product, and service. I just saw a few PWCC auctions on Ebay earlier today, and people are all over them.

doubledragon

The real question is which one is better. Probstein or PWCC?

doubledragon

Rick Probstein is The Godfather. Don Corleone.

_EagleEyeKid_

I have never bought a single card from pwcc. Never had a problem getting the same thing from other sellers and saving a bundle for what I'm looking for.

tigerdean

Thanks Brian, I can't say I have never bought anything from them but it wasnt for 50% more than someone else paid for the same looking card. My point exactly!!!!!

akuracy503

Maybe years ago they were equal. Now it’s not even questionable. Probstein did not adapt to what technologies are available. Hell he can’t even put back scans or descriptions on some cards. How is that even acceptable this day in age?

@doubledragon said:
The real question is which one is better. Probstein or PWCC?

ahopkins

EagleEyeKid said:
I have never bought a single card from pwcc. Never had a problem getting the same thing from other sellers and saving a bundle for what I'm looking for.

This is almost exactly what I came here to post. Good to know someone else out there feels the same way.

DBesse27

@Rttrffg2012 said:
I absolutely believe there is/should be a premium on PWCC card auctions.

Most card people on eBay have no idea what cards are worth.
eBay completed sales, terapeak, worthpoint.... absolute joke. They are manipulated so much, I would put them in the category of “fake news”.
There is a reason some people sell cards higher consistently than eBay completed sales.

When Macy’s sells a shirt or Lids sells a hat, the calculate what it cost to bring it to market, sales trends, customer proclivity, long term value, and numerous other factors. They don’t sell by completed sales.

I have a friend that does not shop at Macy’s or Lids, he goes to super expensive stores and pays $150 for a shirt and $125 for a hat. He wants the idea that he is wearing THE BEST!

PWCC is the best. I gladly pay a premium on their items. I’m getting what I paid for (many sellers are garbage on eBay), it’s being shipped properly, and their market analysis of investments stands alone in the market as the pinnacle of data collection.

It’s very sad that people have to attack others that are doing things the right way. If you can’t understand why then You’re better off emulating until you figure it out.

This goes for life:
Be the trend setter
be the best at something
stop being normal, normal sucks

I could address this piece by piece, and the several parts I agree with and the several parts I disagree with, but honestly I’m too lazy at this moment to write that kind of post. So i’ll only say this. Their “index” or whatever they call it is not always objective and often flawed. You laud it, but honestly I don’t think it serves a lot of purpose, at this point in time, in the way their data is collected and especially in the ways it’s organized and presented.

lawnmowerman

@ahopkins said:

EagleEyeKid said:
I have never bought a single card from pwcc. Never had a problem getting the same thing from other sellers and saving a bundle for what I'm looking for.

This is almost exactly what I came here to post. Good to know someone else out there feels the same way.

Well lump me in with you guys because I'm sure not going to pay more money just because of some sellers reputation.

markj111

You go your way and I’ll go mine.

1951WheatiesPremium

I certainly don’t avoid their auctions - good values can be found anywhere including PWCC - but I prefer to buy raw, I collect off the beaten path a bit and can’t really do most four figure* and any five figure cards as a buyer. So that limits the options with many of their listings that would be of interest to me. I’ve won very few items and no ‘whales’ of any kind. Nor do I imagine I will.

As a collector and therefore mostly a buyer, I did consign a small lot of items to them once just to see if it was all it’s cracked up to be. Since I knew I wouldn’t be placing any bids and there wasn’t going to be any funny business that way I was a little nervous. However, all the lots outperformed my expectation with some being record highs for the grade. Personally, it was all first rate and from first contact to check cutting (quickly) I had not a single complaint.

It just seems like you come pretty darn close to market tops easier and quicker with a quality item with PWCC than you can on your own for the average Joe and even big sellers. Paid quick, they must ship quick (a flip or two was up 4-5 days later on eBay) and will address every question asked promptly.

I don’t mean to sound like an ad; just giving an honest collectors review.

*There have been exception but really truly few and far between

Kep13

so then, the question becomes -- are there people who buy cards on Ebay from other sellers, and then send them to PWCC hoping to make a 25% profit?

1951WheatiesPremium

@Kep13 said:
so then, the question becomes -- are there people who buy cards on Ebay from other sellers, and then send them to PWCC hoping to make a 25% profit?

100 percent - Hope being the key word as that’s a tough, dangerous and expensive game to play...

gemint

Part of it has to do with the fact there are a lot of eyeballs on their auctions which aren’t run continuously. So people wait in anticipation for which cards the next auction will bring to market. If you look at eBay these days, there are very few sellers doing $0.99 auctions. So that also plays into it. People are more likely to bid 50% above VCP for a card that started at $0.99 vs one with a high BIN or opening bid with no action.

People do pay way over market sometimes and do so legitimately. Even a small time seller like me sometimes hits gold. I sold a PSA 9 1960s HOFer a while back for 3x VCP. I usually start my listings around VCP average and often sell with 1 or 2 bids. This one had many bids with two bidders going back and forth against each other. The examples that have sold since that one auction have returned back near VCP average. I can imagine with all the interest in PWCC auctions and the high quality material and scans, it’s not hard to believe they get crazy prices sometimes. I do get good deals from them too though. Especially on commons to fill in my sets.

ElvisP

I agree with others about paying more for the same card just because it comes from PWCC. Makes no sense. They have great service etc, etc but I usually don't participate in their auctions.

doubledragon

Everytime I come across a PWCC auction, buyers are all over it. Buyers pounce on their auctions fast. Same way with Probstein. COMC is a consignment business, but they never do auctions for some reason.

DotStore

I've bought a few things from them that were pretty good deals (based on the same card/grade auctioned from other sellers). I go in with the mindset of "this is what the card is worth to me" and if it goes over my max bid then so be it. I don't get into bidding wars on a card. Actually, I can't get into a bidding war because I usually submit my max bid with about 5 seconds to go -- so there's no chance I duke it out with another bidder...

Side Note: I've always thought eBay could raise their revenue by doing what other auction venues do and extend the auction for "x" minutes when a bid comes within the last minute(s) of the original end time...

detroitfan2

So I'll say it: I have "-pwcc" in all of my ebay searches.

gemint

I don’t avoid their auctions but I don’t bid at a premium to win them either. I bid based on the quality of the card and the historical market price. I may boost my bid for hard to find items.

1951WheatiesPremium

@DotStore said:
I've bought a few things from them that were pretty good deals (based on the same card/grade auctioned from other sellers). I go in with the mindset of "this is what the card is worth to me" and if it goes over my max bid then so be it. I don't get into bidding wars on a card. Actually, I can't get into a bidding war because I usually submit my max bid with about 5 seconds to go -- so there's no chance I duke it out with another bidder...

Side Note: I've always thought eBay could raise their revenue by doing what other auction venues do and extend the auction for "x" minutes when a bid comes within the last minute(s) of the original end time...

Re: Side Note

I don’t disagree with you on the revenue angle but I have seen some of the auction houses with soft closings (as opposed to the eBay style hard close) shift to hard closings and I would imagine that is customer complaint driven. Because those can become a contest between two guys of who can stay up longer with small incremental bidding (that in some cases keeps every lot open longer).

Both systems work with the right card, obviously, to produce high prices so at the end of the day the auction host should take the pulse of his core customers and do what makes them happy.

ReggieCleveland

I have to imagine there are a lot of people that only buy from PWCC. They're basically the only seller on eBay that always offers 1. high quality items, high quality scans, basically weekly auctions, and ALL auctions start at $0.99.

But really, I think it's the flexibility in payment that attracts people to them. You don't need to have money to by from them. Something pops up that you want? Just win it and then send them a better card as a consignment to pay for it. I bet that attracts a LOT of buyers. It also probably allows them to bid higher than if they were paying cold hard cash the next morning.

I know, I know, they have their problems that have been discussed here, and they're serious problems, but there are also legitimate reasons why people only go with them, too.

Arthur

JoeBanzai

@doubledragon said:
The real question is which one is better. Probstein or PWCC?

Better at what? Losing your cards and then telling you to "buzz" off?

Probstein.

DBesse27

@gemint said:
I don’t avoid their auctions but I don’t bid at a premium to win them either. I bid based on the quality of the card and the historical market price. I may boost my bid for hard to find items.

Agree with this 110%. I don’t avoid them, and I don’t overpay for them. I treat their items like any other items on eBay. Check out VCP, pop report, factor in eye appeal, and snipe accordingly.

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@akuracy503 said:
There is no auctioneer consistently bringing the type of cards PWCC does. It’s ground breaking and it’s obvious the high appeal material is getting consigned to them routinely. I would be worried if I were some of the smaller AH’s.

Just wait until they have their Vault marketplace. Listing BIN’s. It will be the single greatest marketplace for the best of the best cards. It won’t even be close.

cant wait

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@JoeBanzai said:

@doubledragon said:
The real question is which one is better. Probstein or PWCC?

Better at what? Losing your cards and then telling you to f#%k off?

Prick Robstien all the way.

who lost what cards

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@ReggieCleveland said:
I have to imagine there are a lot of people that only buy from PWCC. They're basically the only seller on eBay that always offers 1. high quality items, high quality scans, basically weekly auctions, and ALL auctions start at $0.99.

But really, I think it's the flexibility in payment that attracts people to them. You don't need to have money to by from them. Something pops up that you want? Just win it and then send them a better card as a consignment to pay for it. I bet that attracts a LOT of buyers. It also probably allows them to bid higher than if they were paying cold hard cash the next morning.

I know, I know, they have their problems that have been discussed here, and they're serious problems, but there are also legitimate reasons why people only go with them, too.

Arthur

that reggie jackson though, and the 1969 manuel sanguillen lmao

VintagemanEd

I just searched for 1986 Jordan 10 and Pwcc has one that I knew about ending Wednesday but another seller with a 2900 feedback has one ending in 6 days that is new to me. So these 2 cards might be an interesting comparison for this thread

davidlisa

For me, many of the cards I buy are worth the premium. I like centered cards with high quality photography. I know the transaction will go smoothly and the shipping will be fine. Ebay has brought a lot of good cards to market but there is a lot of fraud and quite frankly a lot of stupid people I just choose not to deal with. I rarely buy an item on Ebay if it isn't PWCC or another seller I trust of which there are very few. If you want to save a few dollars go ahead and take the risk but it's not for me.

remedylane

It all comes down to what someone is willing to pay. That's on the particular buyer. Pwcc does have the best of the best. I've overpaid for raw cards and for graded cards. Comes down to wants and how far you are willing to go.

Imo, it's all become a bit overblown. I remember collecting in the 80s and 90s, before professional grading became the norm. If you wanted a value you looked in the book. If you wanted a Roger Staubach rookie for instance, you'd pay $125 for a NM one. Now if it's in a holder you are gonna pay in the thousands. There is a separate set of values, a legit mint raw card and a mint graded card are worth different amounts.

To be honest it's really kind of silly. In reality the holder is worth more than the actual card. And now there even more premiums on super nice pwcc or probstein graded cards. I'm not mad, it's just funny if you really think about it and break it down .

ArchStanton

As a rule, I generally don't click on their auctions. I appreciate that their name is always visible in the listings. Saves me time.

markj111

@remedylane said:
It all comes down to what someone is willing to pay. That's on the particular buyer. Pwcc does have the best of the best. I've overpaid for raw cards and for graded cards. Comes down to wants and how far you are willing to go.

Imo, it's all become a bit overblown. I remember collecting in the 80s and 90s, before professional grading became the norm. If you wanted a value you looked in the book. If you wanted a Roger Staubach rookie for instance, you'd pay $125 for a NM one. Now if it's in a holder you are gonna pay in the thousands. There is a separate set of values, a legit mint raw card and a mint graded card are worth different amounts.

To be honest it's really kind of silly. In reality the holder is worth more than the actual card. And now there even more premiums on super nice pwcc or probstein graded cards. I'm not mad, it's just funny if you really think about it and break it down .

A lot of those “NM” cards were ex-ex+.

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@ArchStanton said:
As a rule, I generally don't click on their auctions. I appreciate that their name is always visible in the listings. Saves me time.

what he said

remedylane

@markj111 said:

@remedylane said:
It all comes down to what someone is willing to pay. That's on the particular buyer. Pwcc does have the best of the best. I've overpaid for raw cards and for graded cards. Comes down to wants and how far you are willing to go.

Imo, it's all become a bit overblown. I remember collecting in the 80s and 90s, before professional grading became the norm. If you wanted a value you looked in the book. If you wanted a Roger Staubach rookie for instance, you'd pay $125 for a NM one. Now if it's in a holder you are gonna pay in the thousands. There is a separate set of values, a legit mint raw card and a mint graded card are worth different amounts.

To be honest it's really kind of silly. In reality the holder is worth more than the actual card. And now there even more premiums on super nice pwcc or probstein graded cards. I'm not mad, it's just funny if you really think about it and break it down .

A lot of those “NM” cards were ex-ex+.

I don't disagree with you. But we all had the same grading guidelines in any tuff stuff or Beckett. Same ones used by grading companies today. I think we just saw what we wanted to see back then when it came to grading our cards. Hell, that happens even now with professional grading..

tigerdean

@Rttrffg2012 said:

@stevek said:
There is an old saying in business, "Never underestimate what the American public will pay for convenience."

I think when it comes to internet sellers, words such as reliability, quality, etc, could be added to the above.

Good point
We should all buy things from Walmart: lightbulbs, cleaning supplies, T-shirt’s....but I never go there. It’s out of the way, crowded, disorganized, and full of miserable employees.
I’d rather go to my local stores. They are more money but they are convenient and friendly.

No different than shopping in my town of 10,000 people. I like to keep my money local but if you think I am going to pay you an extra 50% for the same quality item to buy local then you better think again. 10% is no problem, more than 10%, it depends on the item, but 50%, not gonna happen. I guess I like my money enough to put it towards another card rather than to give it away. IMHO, people get tied up in names instead of opening their eyes. I sure didn't expect my initial post to garner this type of rhetoric. I just got to laugh that I am deemed "SAD" and that I am "attacking" and should "emulate". Unreal, I have been on this board a long time and have made several good friends over the past decade and have done numerous sales and purchases but I guess this is why I have only made the number of posts I have in so many years.

1951WheatiesPremium

@tigerdean said:

@Rttrffg2012 said:

@stevek said:
There is an old saying in business, "Never underestimate what the American public will pay for convenience."

I think when it comes to internet sellers, words such as reliability, quality, etc, could be added to the above.

Good point
We should all buy things from Walmart: lightbulbs, cleaning supplies, T-shirt’s....but I never go there. It’s out of the way, crowded, disorganized, and full of miserable employees.
I’d rather go to my local stores. They are more money but they are convenient and friendly.

No different than shopping in my town of 10,000 people. I like to keep my money local but if you think I am going to pay you an extra 50% for the same quality item to buy local then you better think again. 10% is no problem, more than 10%, it depends on the item, but 50%, not gonna happen. I guess I like my money enough to put it towards another card rather than to give it away. IMHO, people get tied up in names instead of opening their eyes. I sure didn't expect my initial post to garner this type of rhetoric. I just got to laugh that I am deemed "SAD" and that I am "attacking" and should "emulate". Unreal, I have been on this board a long time and have made several good friends over the past decade and have done numerous sales and purchases but I guess this is why I have only made the number of posts I have in so many years.

Use the troll filter: once you find a troll, stop reading and go to next entry. Much more enjoyable. Takes less time, too!

tigerdean

@Rttrffg2012 said:
I think the 50% mark up has been embellished in this thread. I would say most cards go for (top end) market value.
Pwcc has high shipping prices.

I account the premium to more eyes being on pwcc items.

Really, embellished? here is a recent example of more than 50%. Maybe slightly better but is this card worth over $600 more, and it isn't even labeled as "HIGH END".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Topps-300-Roberto-Clemente-Pirates-Nm-Mt-PSA-8-5/401720766686?hash=item5d886c70de:g:jtQAAOSwAn9cfJ1y

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Topps-Roberto-Clemente-300-PSA-8-5-NM-MT-PWCC/143162944611?hash=item21552d2c63:g:EfMAAOSw4S1cgYnQ

doubledragon

@tigerdean said:

@Rttrffg2012 said:

@stevek said:
There is an old saying in business, "Never underestimate what the American public will pay for convenience."

I think when it comes to internet sellers, words such as reliability, quality, etc, could be added to the above.

Good point
We should all buy things from Walmart: lightbulbs, cleaning supplies, T-shirt’s....but I never go there. It’s out of the way, crowded, disorganized, and full of miserable employees.
I’d rather go to my local stores. They are more money but they are convenient and friendly.

No different than shopping in my town of 10,000 people. I like to keep my money local but if you think I am going to pay you an extra 50% for the same quality item to buy local then you better think again. 10% is no problem, more than 10%, it depends on the item, but 50%, not gonna happen. I guess I like my money enough to put it towards another card rather than to give it away. IMHO, people get tied up in names instead of opening their eyes. I sure didn't expect my initial post to garner this type of rhetoric. I just got to laugh that I am deemed "SAD" and that I am "attacking" and should "emulate". Unreal, I have been on this board a long time and have made several good friends over the past decade and have done numerous sales and purchases but I guess this is why I have only made the number of posts I have in so many years.

Everybody has different opinions and personally I enjoy hearing them all. I hope you continue to post. This place could use a little excitement sometimes. Last thing we need is a zombie graveyard.

galaxy27

it's the entire presentation. no one does it better. a lot of people throw crap up on ebay without so much as lifting a finger and expect top dollar for it. every month i get antsy waiting for the next PWCC preview to see what's on the horizon, because i know there's a better-than-average chance that a wad of cardboard will bang hard off my eyeballs. then when it's showtime i'm able to compare my virtual opinion to their in-hand opinion, zoom in on the card like i'm scooby dum with a magnifying glass looking for a clue, and if i'm fortunate enough to slam my flag into the top of the mountain, i know there will be zero complications from that point forward. especially in this day and age, all of that is worth something, imo.

have they been infallible? nope. but i try to put myself in their shoes before i lob stones like a hand grenade. if i had to police a rabid cult following like that, i'd invariably make mistakes too. hell i'd be bellied up to the bar on a nightly basis if i had to deal with unscrupulous types as often as they do. but that comes with the eBay territory. very few places to hide where you will be completely immune from duplicity.

and if it still seems nonsensical, consign some aesthetically pleasing cards or pristine unopened material with them sometime. once the perceived insanity works in your favor, then i assure you -- your vantage point will be altered.

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@Rttrffg2012 said:
I think the 50% mark up has been embellished in this thread. I would say most cards go for (top end) market value.
Pwcc has high shipping prices.

I account the premium to more eyes being on pwcc items.

300 percent hike on that manny sanguillen 1969 last night lmao

softparade

Doesn't look like they auction any unopened?