Post your 1875-P and 1878-cc trade dollars with chop marks!!

TradesWithChops

Yes, this is a phishing attempt to find out who owns them. I do not own any.

Come on! I know some of you must have them!!!

tradedollarnut

75-P don’t exist IMO. The few slabbed ones are incorrect. Pretty bad when you can clearly see the remnants of a mint mark as on a few of them

TradesWithChops

@tradedollarnut said:
75-P don’t exist IMO. The few slabbed ones are incorrect. Pretty bad when you can clearly see the remnants of a mint mark as on a few of them

agreed. I've seen a few with a partial S clearly visible. ive not personally seen any genuine ones, in-hand nor trueview. rumor has it some exist though.

TradesWithChops

@tradedollarnut said:
75-P don’t exist IMO. The few slabbed ones are incorrect. Pretty bad when you can clearly see the remnants of a mint mark as on a few of them

like this one. https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-chop-mark-cleaned-pcgs-genuine-vf-details-ngc-census-0-0-pcgs-population-0-5-/a/131407-22686.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

^ honestly, this is a disgrace of a grade. About half the mintmark is clearly visible, while the other half is faintly visible inside of the chopmark. I wonder if PCGS would remove this from the population/de-certify/change the database entry to 1875-S?

@HeatherBoyd - Is this something that someone in the grading department might be willing to consider? thank you for your time

MilkmanDan

@tradedollarnut I was in the same camp as you, having never seen a legit 75-P with chops, but a couple years ago while visiting @DDR he showed me one that was unquestionably legit. It was XF-ish if I remember correctly, with maybe a little cleaning but it’s the only one I’ve seen that wasn’t from SF.

ChopmarkedTrades

With regard to the title of the post, [FILE NOT FOUND]. Hope to change that one day, though.

@OriginalDan said:
@tradedollarnut I was in the same camp as you, having never seen a legit 75-P with chops, but a couple years ago while visiting @DDR he showed me one that was unquestionably legit. It was XF-ish if I remember correctly, with maybe a little cleaning but it’s the only one I’ve seen that wasn’t from SF.

I've seen the same coin, in a PCGS Details holder. Chop was a little unusual, but it was passed around a table of Trade Dollar collectors and passed muster on die characteristics.

ricko

I do not have those particular TD's....but look forward to some pictures... Cheers, RickO

Unknown

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TradesWithChops

@Realone said:
That's reassuring. Kind of like when a TPG checks out a trade. Or when a noted T$1 collector believes he has a 1875-P chop and it ain't.;)

people make mistakes. however, I do trust the words of trade dollar experts who spend a lot of time looking at a coin they are very interested in versus the quick grade of someone who couldn't care less and views these coins as simply damage like some notable TPG graders with personas on these boards.

DDR

Sorry I am late to chime in, I've been traveling. But now that I am back home on the computer...

Yes, I own the 75-P in question. It was passed around the table at the Trade Dollar Summit about two years ago and the unanimous agreement was that it was legit. It was clearly a 75-P, all the diagnostics checked out, and it was clearly chopped. I have two others, where there is not unanimous agreement. And I have seen a couple of other ones that may or may not be legit.

I am certain that chopmarked 75-Ps exist. In addition to holding one in my hand, chopmarked Trade Dollars exist for every date/mintmark, including all of the P mints; it would be odd of none existed for only the 75-P. In addition, PCGS has certified four 75-Ps (and five 78-CCs). Other grading services have certified chopmarked 75-P Trade Dollars, although I know there is some duplication. I doubt that all grading services are 100 percent wrong all the time on the 75-P.

Unfortunately, I do not have the coin with me at this time, so I cannot post a photo. It is in a SDB that is not easily accessible. I will get mine TrueViewed at some point and will post it for discussion if there is interest.

In the mean time, let me see if I can post my two chopmarked 78-CCs.

DDR

This one I purchased raw on eBay almost 20 years ago. Back in the day you could do such things. I purchased it from a dealer in California, who said he purchased it indirectly from China, via Japan.

DDR

This is one of my favorites, it has a great look. I purchased it from TDN as part of his chopmarked set. I have since combined our two sets.

DDR

I'd estimate there are about 12-15 chopmarked 78-CC Trade Dollars out there; at most maybe half that many 75-Ps.

AUandAG

I posted mine so many times....not again!

bob

TradesWithChops

@DDR said:
I'd estimate there are about 12-15 chopmarked 78-CC Trade Dollars out there; at most maybe half that many 75-Ps.

There it is! We have a biter on the post. I hope more will post some! Those are great coins DDR. While most of us can hardly find these coins to even look at, DDR has two of them! Putting us all to shame!

tradedollarnut

I can state for an absolute fact that two of the PCGS coins and one of the ngc are bad

TradesWithChops

@tradedollarnut said:
I can state for an absolute fact that two of the PCGS coins and one of the ngc are bad

Do you mean two of the straight graded ones? I posted a details coin above that is clearly bad - with the S plainly visible. Unbelievable that PCGS could get it so wrong.

As for the straight graded ones, I have seen a legit 75-P, but the chopmark is bad - it's a lattice counterstamp, not a chinese chop mark. This is the only 1 of the 4 straight graded that I've seen in-hand. There is a trueview of a 2nd of the 4, which is very damaged over the mintmark spot, with SF die characteristics. Are these the "two known bad" that you are referencing?

A 3rd of the 4 is what DDR must have mentioned above, where there was not unanimous approval. I suspect that to be his primary set coin that was passed around at the Summit (which I did not attend because I didnt know anyone yet).

au55 (no details about this one, but the xf40's are showing up as #1 in the registries).
2x xf40 - (ddr - not unanimous at summit), and second one is a lattice chop.
vf25 - (ddr - not unanimous at summit).

Insider2

@TradesWithChops said:

@Realone said:
That's reassuring. Kind of like when a TPG checks out a trade. Or when a noted T$1 collector believes he has a 1875-P chop and it ain't.;)

people make mistakes. however, I do trust the words of trade dollar experts who spend a lot of time looking at a coin they are very interested in versus the quick grade of someone who couldn't care less and views these coins as simply damage like some notable TPG graders with personas on these boards.

Chops ARE DAMAGE! A historical, collectible, and interesting form of PMD. AFAIK, the popularity of these coins has finally forced the TPGS's to straight grade them.

Insider2

@tradedollarnut said:
I can state for an absolute fact that two of the PCGS coins and one of the ngc are bad

Bad as in Counterfeit or Bad as in an overlooked mintmark?

TradesWithChops

@Insider2 said:

@TradesWithChops said:

@Realone said:
That's reassuring. Kind of like when a TPG checks out a trade. Or when a noted T$1 collector believes he has a 1875-P chop and it ain't.;)

people make mistakes. however, I do trust the words of trade dollar experts who spend a lot of time looking at a coin they are very interested in versus the quick grade of someone who couldn't care less and views these coins as simply damage like some notable TPG graders with personas on these boards.

Chops ARE DAMAGE! A historical, collectible, and interesting form of PMD. AFAIK, the popularity of these coins has finally forced the TPGS's to straight grade them.

Annnnd theres the grader I was referencing - Hi!

Insider2

Look, I love T$. I own several that are chopped including the S/CC. I have NEVER considered any of them to be damaged coins, but -

THEY ARE!

It is very simple, true, and undeniable that chopped T$ are desirable, collectible, historical, interesting, and DAMAGED.

PS I got the TPGS I work for at the moment to start straight grading chopped T$ shortly after I was hired!!

TradesWithChops

@Insider2 said:
Look, I love T$. I own several that are chopped including the S/CC. I have NEVER considered any of them to be damaged coins, but -

THEY ARE!

It is very simple, true, and undeniable that chopped T$ are desirable, collectible, historical, interesting, and DAMAGED.

PS I got the TPGS I work for at the moment to start straight grading chopped T$ shortly after I was hired!!

I'll retort to my 1st grade comeback - "Your face is a damaged coin"

TradesWithChops

@TradesWithChops said:

@tradedollarnut said:
I can state for an absolute fact that two of the PCGS coins and one of the ngc are bad

Do you mean two of the straight graded ones? I posted a details coin above that is clearly bad - with the S plainly visible. Unbelievable that PCGS could get it so wrong.

As for the straight graded ones, I have seen a legit 75-P, but the chopmark is bad - it's a lattice counterstamp, not a chinese chop mark. This is the only 1 of the 4 straight graded that I've seen in-hand. There is a trueview of a 2nd of the 4, which is very damaged over the mintmark spot, with SF die characteristics. Are these the "two known bad" that you are referencing?

A 3rd of the 4 is what DDR must have mentioned above, where there was not unanimous approval. I suspect that to be his primary set coin that was passed around at the Summit (which I did not attend because I didnt know anyone yet).

au55 (no details about this one, but the xf40's are showing up as #1 in the registries).
2x xf40 - (ddr - not unanimous at summit), and second one is a lattice chop.
vf25 - (ddr - not unanimous at summit).

^^^^ Id like to explore this more. Why would there be an au55 on the population list, and the top population according to the registry is xf40?

There appears to be a typo in the condition census... it says au55, but the other list says vf30. I suspect it is actually vf30

ChopmarkedTrades

@Insider2 said:

@TradesWithChops said:

@Realone said:
That's reassuring. Kind of like when a TPG checks out a trade. Or when a noted T$1 collector believes he has a 1875-P chop and it ain't.;)

people make mistakes. however, I do trust the words of trade dollar experts who spend a lot of time looking at a coin they are very interested in versus the quick grade of someone who couldn't care less and views these coins as simply damage like some notable TPG graders with personas on these boards.

Chops ARE DAMAGE! A historical, collectible, and interesting form of PMD. AFAIK, the popularity of these coins has finally forced the TPGS's to straight grade them.

Yes, they are damaged in the context you're describing, in the same vein as a Houck's Panacea counterstamp, Brasher evaluation mark, Planter's Bank stamp, or any government countermark. Chop collectors just value a coin's circulation history as much as the circumstances behind its mintage.