@jmlanzaf said:
Bottom line: PayPal is NOT out of line with what CC companies do. [unfortunately] And it would be a waste of time to call AGs etc as it is clearly legal for them to do so.
Essentially, PayPal is keeping the fee for providing the service. And, in fact, they did successfully execute the service.
I never said it was illegal. I said it would likely harm their business with smaller sellers and individuals at least. I see this as a positive for PayPal alternatives that do not charge the fees on refunds, and PayPal could lose its market share if an able competitor steps up to the plate to fill in the gap.
I wasn't thinking of you. Someone else here had suggested calling AGs to complain.
Are there any PayPal alternatives that do not charge fees on refunds? It appears to be standard for CC companies.
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
Goggle "who owns PayPal" and decide for yourself.
eBay does NOT own PayPal. They separated years ago. In fact, their cooperation contract is expiring and eBay bought their own separate payment company in Europe.
I like GC, but this has done nothing to help them other than make it more attractive (maybe) for you to pay them more money to do the work so you don't have to deal with the aggravation.
@giorgio11 said:
I just left Feedback to PayPal. It was along the lines of "I am about this close to kissing both you and eBay goodbye. For years I have refused to take PP F&F for items sold, even when people offer. But keeping your fee for returned items is out and out thievery. Congratulations, I no longer feel any obligation to be honest with PayPal."
One should always be honest with those that they conduct business with. Holding back the fee is not thievery but certainly runs counter to Ebay's virtual requirement to accept returns.
Maybe this will help the new Ebay payment system. Certainly needs to be looked into more closely.
That is your opinion. Keeping money for doing nothing is theft. That is my opinion.
They are NOT keeping money for doing nothing. They process the payment and then they process the return. They are actually providing TWO services. In fact, if you do some research, some CC companies actually charge an ADDITIONAL return fee for the second processing.
Your consistent bashing of sellers of PCGS graded coins that have concerns about their selling partners*, Ebay and Paypal has gotten tiresome and redundant.
PCGS is the best third party grader in the business. As the market accepted leader, the coins trade at prices with tight spreads. Because of this, those that once did well selling through Ebay and Paypal are now challenged with the ever increasing fees and requirements that can quickly eat up a 15-20% spread.
Not much room in a $2000 MS 66 Saint that a dealer pays $1700 for, after the $200 in fees and shipping. Tack on $160 in sales tax on the buyer side.
A return will cost the seller about $80 with the new Paypal terms.
Ebay will soon be a memory.
The beginning of this statement is largely true. It has also been true forever. Coins are a horrible business to be in, especially in an incremental cost model which charges fees per coin A flat cost model - B&M, coin show - can accommodate the thin margins by going to larger volumes. In an incremental cost model like Amazon or eBay, increased volume increases fees proportionally.
The last statement is hyperbolic in a couple of ways:
1. Coins are only a small part of the eBay ecosystem. The fees for selling "normal" items on eBay is miniscule because most are running on 30-40% margins which coins are not.
2. eBay only becomes "a memory" if Amazon also becomes "a memory". This problem is a problem for ALL online ecosystems that have an incremental cost model.
What will happen when PP is totally split from Feebay?
I have that underlying feeling that perhaps Visa or MC or even AX will / could step in and offer a solution????
think about it... everyone gets a ***CC.. similar to Costco. Costco lost the AX CC in Canada by .1 of % to MC.
Just spinning my thoughts..
AX could totally control PP and Feebay and dictate terms.
BTW, WHO pays the CC fees when a buyer pays with a CC to PP?
IMO, Ebay bucks are simply another way to crab more $$ from you, not give you a discount.....at the financial end...
you have to redeem them and u are limited where and how. Just like FF account with airlines or hotels.
I like GC, but this has done nothing to help them other than make it more attractive (maybe) for you to pay them more money to do the work so you don't have to deal with the aggravation.
$1000 or higher hammer and there is no seller fee. Buyer fee of 10% (which the seller of course covers) will cost me about the same as an Ebay transaction would. Advantage of GC is that I can feature a coin for $10 (Ebay promotion cost is astronomical ) and they handle the listing and shipping. And at least as of right now, Ian does not clip you for a fee on returns.
eBay claims that the move to Adyen will have three major benefits:
Lower Costs – according to eBay “most sellers can expect their costs of payments processing to be reduced after they transition to eBay’s intermediated payments model”.
Streamlined process – Sellers will be able to manage payments within the eBay platform, thus eliminating the current situation where sellers manage their sales via eBay and manage payments via Paypal. Sellers can easily track and manage all of their transactions and customer interactions on eBay.
Greater Buyer Reach – Adyen lets consumers pay in 150 currencies, hence eBay believes sellers will be able to reach more buyers.
On the buyer side, the experience should also improve as Adyen will let them checkout within eBay, rather than being directed to PayPal before completing a purchase.
@amwldcoin said:
I've often wondered how ebay could force sellers to only accept paypal. My knowledge on the subject is this is an illegal "restriction of business trade". I have been hoping a few bigger sellers would get together and legally challenge ebay about this. I have lost many sales from people who will not use paypal(message me asking if I will accept a check and then unable to purchase). In the past it worked OK as they could buy the item without paying instantly and I was fine waiting for their check to arrive in the mail. Now ebay pretty much requires instant payment on all but a few users. I have never required instant payment myself.
@cameonut2011 said:
I will not buy without a return privilege nor will I sell under the new rule and accept PayPal. There are alternatives to PayPal. I think the new rules will harm PayPal's market share especially with retailers.
They don't force sellers to "only" accept paypal. What they do seem to force is for sellers to accept an "acceptable" form of electronic payment. So, sellers that have their own processing agreements with VISA, or similar, can use those. I've seen it.
I think, at least at one time, they were forcing Paypal as an option, but a few years ago, I forget the seller, I was looking at an item and the seller wouldn't accept paypal but did accept VISA/MC and maybe something else. It was an actual coin shop, according to the listing. Been a few years though.
I like GC, but this has done nothing to help them other than make it more attractive (maybe) for you to pay them more money to do the work so you don't have to deal with the aggravation.
$1000 or higher hammer and there is no seller fee. Buyer fee of 10% (which the seller of course covers) will cost me about the same as an Ebay transaction would. Advantage of GC is that I can feature a coin for $10 (Ebay promotion cost is astronomical ) and they handle the listing and shipping. And at least as of right now, Ian does not clip you for a fee on returns.
Yes, that's true. Now do the math for a $950 coin with a 10% buyers fee, a 5% sellers fee and a $5 set up fee. And for a $50 coin, that's 25% in fees.
Again, nothing wrong with GC but not everything belongs on GC just like not everything belongs on eBay...or Heritage or Stack's or BST
I like GC, but this has done nothing to help them other than make it more attractive (maybe) for you to pay them more money to do the work so you don't have to deal with the aggravation.
$1000 or higher hammer and there is no seller fee. Buyer fee of 10% (which the seller of course covers) will cost me about the same as an Ebay transaction would. Advantage of GC is that I can feature a coin for $10 (Ebay promotion cost is astronomical ) and they handle the listing and shipping. And at least as of right now, Ian does not clip you for a fee on returns.
Yes, that's true. Now do the math for a $950 coin with a 10% buyers fee, a 5% sellers fee and a $5 set up fee. And for a $50 coin, that's 25% in fees.
Again, nothing wrong with GC but not everything belongs on GC just like not everything belongs on eBay...or Heritage or Stack's or BST
@amwldcoin said:
I've often wondered how ebay could force sellers to only accept paypal. My knowledge on the subject is this is an illegal "restriction of business trade". I have been hoping a few bigger sellers would get together and legally challenge ebay about this. I have lost many sales from people who will not use paypal(message me asking if I will accept a check and then unable to purchase). In the past it worked OK as they could buy the item without paying instantly and I was fine waiting for their check to arrive in the mail. Now ebay pretty much requires instant payment on all but a few users. I have never required instant payment myself.
@cameonut2011 said:
I will not buy without a return privilege nor will I sell under the new rule and accept PayPal. There are alternatives to PayPal. I think the new rules will harm PayPal's market share especially with retailers.
They don't force sellers to "only" accept paypal. What they do seem to force is for sellers to accept an "acceptable" form of electronic payment. So, sellers that have their own processing agreements with VISA, or similar, can use those. I've seen it.
I think, at least at one time, they were forcing Paypal as an option, but a few years ago, I forget the seller, I was looking at an item and the seller wouldn't accept paypal but did accept VISA/MC and maybe something else. It was an actual coin shop, according to the listing. Been a few years though.
@amwldcoin said:
I've often wondered how ebay could force sellers to only accept paypal. My knowledge on the subject is this is an illegal "restriction of business trade". I have been hoping a few bigger sellers would get together and legally challenge ebay about this. I have lost many sales from people who will not use paypal(message me asking if I will accept a check and then unable to purchase). In the past it worked OK as they could buy the item without paying instantly and I was fine waiting for their check to arrive in the mail. Now ebay pretty much requires instant payment on all but a few users. I have never required instant payment myself.
@cameonut2011 said:
I will not buy without a return privilege nor will I sell under the new rule and accept PayPal. There are alternatives to PayPal. I think the new rules will harm PayPal's market share especially with retailers.
They don't force sellers to "only" accept paypal. What they do seem to force is for sellers to accept an "acceptable" form of electronic payment. So, sellers that have their own processing agreements with VISA, or similar, can use those. I've seen it.
I think, at least at one time, they were forcing Paypal as an option, but a few years ago, I forget the seller, I was looking at an item and the seller wouldn't accept paypal but did accept VISA/MC and maybe something else. It was an actual coin shop, according to the listing. Been a few years though.
You can accept them, but who would want to?
Bounced checks. Fake money orders. And people refusing to bid because they think you are running the scam
@amwldcoin said:
I've often wondered how ebay could force sellers to only accept paypal. My knowledge on the subject is this is an illegal "restriction of business trade". I have been hoping a few bigger sellers would get together and legally challenge ebay about this. I have lost many sales from people who will not use paypal(message me asking if I will accept a check and then unable to purchase). In the past it worked OK as they could buy the item without paying instantly and I was fine waiting for their check to arrive in the mail. Now ebay pretty much requires instant payment on all but a few users. I have never required instant payment myself.
@cameonut2011 said:
I will not buy without a return privilege nor will I sell under the new rule and accept PayPal. There are alternatives to PayPal. I think the new rules will harm PayPal's market share especially with retailers.
They don't force sellers to "only" accept paypal. What they do seem to force is for sellers to accept an "acceptable" form of electronic payment. So, sellers that have their own processing agreements with VISA, or similar, can use those. I've seen it.
I think, at least at one time, they were forcing Paypal as an option, but a few years ago, I forget the seller, I was looking at an item and the seller wouldn't accept paypal but did accept VISA/MC and maybe something else. It was an actual coin shop, according to the listing. Been a few years though.
You can accept them, but who would want to?
Bounced checks. Fake money orders. And people refusing to bid because they think you are running the scam
You could accept Postal Money Orders only and cash them at the Post Office before shipping. If you list it as an option, but also allow PayPal or other comparable options, I'm not sure I would agree that people would view your listing as a scam.
Believe me...unless I am missing something you can not except checks or money orders. The only way is to break eBay's rules and exchange personal information. Ebay pretty much requires instant payment on any listings these days. I have lost several sales due to this! The BTW, maybe I am lucky but in all my years and thousands of checks later I have yet to receive a bad check!
Bounced checks. Fake money orders. And people refusing to bid because they think you are running the scam
You could accept Postal Money Orders only and cash them at the Post Office before shipping. If you list it as an option, but also allow PayPal or other comparable options, I'm not sure I would agree that people would view your listing as a scam.
I would. I'll set up a poll. Someone selling a coin who only wants a payment that cannot be reversed...hmmm...
@amwldcoin said:
I've often wondered how ebay could force sellers to only accept paypal. My knowledge on the subject is this is an illegal "restriction of business trade". I have been hoping a few bigger sellers would get together and legally challenge ebay about this. I have lost many sales from people who will not use paypal(message me asking if I will accept a check and then unable to purchase). In the past it worked OK as they could buy the item without paying instantly and I was fine waiting for their check to arrive in the mail. Now ebay pretty much requires instant payment on all but a few users. I have never required instant payment myself.
@cameonut2011 said:
I will not buy without a return privilege nor will I sell under the new rule and accept PayPal. There are alternatives to PayPal. I think the new rules will harm PayPal's market share especially with retailers.
They don't force sellers to "only" accept paypal. What they do seem to force is for sellers to accept an "acceptable" form of electronic payment. So, sellers that have their own processing agreements with VISA, or similar, can use those. I've seen it.
I think, at least at one time, they were forcing Paypal as an option, but a few years ago, I forget the seller, I was looking at an item and the seller wouldn't accept paypal but did accept VISA/MC and maybe something else. It was an actual coin shop, according to the listing. Been a few years though.
You can accept them, but who would want to?
Bounced checks. Fake money orders. And people refusing to bid because they think you are running the scam
Never had a check or MO problem. I held everything for 7 business days and made that clear to the purchaser. It was nice to save $100 on a pricey coin. Same was true of the Paypal Echeck which topped out at a $5 fee. Icahn couldn't have that so that option disappeared.
Another factor I don't think I saw on this thread is the balance transfers used to fund a purchase. No cost to Paypal for that yet they will still sting you on a return.
I believe you missed the whole point! I welcome paypal. I am contacted asking if I will accept a check or money order and I say yes. Then they are unable to purchase it unless we take the transaction off of ebay and I just end the listing. I have been able to do that with the folks who know how to google as my contact info isn't hard to find.
Bounced checks. Fake money orders. And people refusing to bid because they think you are running the scam
You could accept Postal Money Orders only and cash them at the Post Office before shipping. If you list it as an option, but also allow PayPal or other comparable options, I'm not sure I would agree that people would view your listing as a scam.
I would. I'll set up a poll. Someone selling a coin who only wants a payment that cannot be reversed...hmmm...
"All returns purchased through paypal will be charged a 2.9% restocking fee. This is necessary because paypal no longer refunds their initial paypal transaction fee to sellers on returned items. The restocking fee will be deducted from any refund we provide. Refunds will be paid out only upon return of original, undamaged merchandise."
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
It will be interesting to see if you can be successful! I would wager at this point ebay is going to side with the buyer. That could change if there is a mass exodus of sellers though. Sellers! It's time to unite!
"All returns purchased through paypal will be charged a 2.9% restocking fee. This is necessary because paypal no longer refunds their initial paypal transaction fee to sellers on returned items. The restocking fee will be deducted from any refund we provide. Refunds will be paid out only upon return of original, undamaged merchandise."
@amwldcoin said:
It will be interesting to see if you can be successful! I would wager at this point ebay is going to side with the buyer. That could change if there is a mass exodus of sellers though. Sellers! It's time to unite!
"All returns purchased through paypal will be charged a 2.9% restocking fee. This is necessary because paypal no longer refunds their initial paypal transaction fee to sellers on returned items. The restocking fee will be deducted from any refund we provide. Refunds will be paid out only upon return of original, undamaged merchandise."
They can't enforce a "restocking fee", that has been shown in a lot of cases.
Because paypal does something that will not hold up under legal scrutiny does not justify a "post hoc propter hoc" or "look at what you made me do" action.
I got a mailing on a class action against master card and visa today, that is in process, should be interesting, many businesses must be getting this. Something about excess processing fees.
@amwldcoin said:
It will be interesting to see if you can be successful! I would wager at this point ebay is going to side with the buyer. That could change if there is a mass exodus of sellers though. Sellers! It's time to unite!
"All returns purchased through paypal will be charged a 2.9% restocking fee. This is necessary because paypal no longer refunds their initial paypal transaction fee to sellers on returned items. The restocking fee will be deducted from any refund we provide. Refunds will be paid out only upon return of original, undamaged merchandise."
They can't enforce a "restocking fee", that has been shown in a lot of cases.
Because paypal does something that will not hold up under legal scrutiny does not justify a "post hoc propter hoc" or "look at what you made me do" action.
I got a mailing on a class action against master card and visa today, that is in process, should be interesting, many businesses must be getting this. Something about excess processing fees.
PayPals action holds up under legal scrutiny. It is standard practice in payment processing.
Comments
I wasn't thinking of you. Someone else here had suggested calling AGs to complain.
Are there any PayPal alternatives that do not charge fees on refunds? It appears to be standard for CC companies.
>
eBay does NOT own PayPal. They separated years ago. In fact, their cooperation contract is expiring and eBay bought their own separate payment company in Europe.
You might want to check your facts.
I like GC, but this has done nothing to help them other than make it more attractive (maybe) for you to pay them more money to do the work so you don't have to deal with the aggravation.
They are NOT keeping money for doing nothing. They process the payment and then they process the return. They are actually providing TWO services. In fact, if you do some research, some CC companies actually charge an ADDITIONAL return fee for the second processing.
The beginning of this statement is largely true. It has also been true forever. Coins are a horrible business to be in, especially in an incremental cost model which charges fees per coin A flat cost model - B&M, coin show - can accommodate the thin margins by going to larger volumes. In an incremental cost model like Amazon or eBay, increased volume increases fees proportionally.
The last statement is hyperbolic in a couple of ways:
1. Coins are only a small part of the eBay ecosystem. The fees for selling "normal" items on eBay is miniscule because most are running on 30-40% margins which coins are not.
2. eBay only becomes "a memory" if Amazon also becomes "a memory". This problem is a problem for ALL online ecosystems that have an incremental cost model.
What will happen when PP is totally split from Feebay?
I have that underlying feeling that perhaps Visa or MC or even AX will / could step in and offer a solution????
think about it... everyone gets a ***CC.. similar to Costco. Costco lost the AX CC in Canada by .1 of % to MC.
Just spinning my thoughts..
AX could totally control PP and Feebay and dictate terms.
BTW, WHO pays the CC fees when a buyer pays with a CC to PP?
IMO, Ebay bucks are simply another way to crab more $$ from you, not give you a discount.....at the financial end...
you have to redeem them and u are limited where and how. Just like FF account with airlines or hotels.
$1000 or higher hammer and there is no seller fee. Buyer fee of 10% (which the seller of course covers) will cost me about the same as an Ebay transaction would. Advantage of GC is that I can feature a coin for $10 (Ebay promotion cost is astronomical ) and they handle the listing and shipping. And at least as of right now, Ian does not clip you for a fee on returns.
Seems like we won't have to deal with Paypal much longer anyways:
https://www.recode.net/2018/1/31/16957212/ebay-adyen-paypal-payments-agreement
eBay claims that the move to Adyen will have three major benefits:
Lower Costs – according to eBay “most sellers can expect their costs of payments processing to be reduced after they transition to eBay’s intermediated payments model”.
Streamlined process – Sellers will be able to manage payments within the eBay platform, thus eliminating the current situation where sellers manage their sales via eBay and manage payments via Paypal. Sellers can easily track and manage all of their transactions and customer interactions on eBay.
Greater Buyer Reach – Adyen lets consumers pay in 150 currencies, hence eBay believes sellers will be able to reach more buyers.
On the buyer side, the experience should also improve as Adyen will let them checkout within eBay, rather than being directed to PayPal before completing a purchase.
Anyone know if Ayden has a good security record?
Won't PayPal get kicked off eBay when eBay brings their new payment processor on-line?
Paypal will be getting the boot in 2021 it seems.
They don't force sellers to "only" accept paypal. What they do seem to force is for sellers to accept an "acceptable" form of electronic payment. So, sellers that have their own processing agreements with VISA, or similar, can use those. I've seen it.
I think, at least at one time, they were forcing Paypal as an option, but a few years ago, I forget the seller, I was looking at an item and the seller wouldn't accept paypal but did accept VISA/MC and maybe something else. It was an actual coin shop, according to the listing. Been a few years though.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Yes, that's true. Now do the math for a $950 coin with a 10% buyers fee, a 5% sellers fee and a $5 set up fee. And for a $50 coin, that's 25% in fees.
Again, nothing wrong with GC but not everything belongs on GC just like not everything belongs on eBay...or Heritage or Stack's or BST
We are in agreement on that.
Where do guys get these coins so cheap you can eat all these fees ? For the most part ebay buyers are bargain hunters.
I would love for you to show me how I can accept checks and Money Orders on ebay!
You can accept them, but who would want to?
Bounced checks. Fake money orders. And people refusing to bid because they think you are running the scam
You could accept Postal Money Orders only and cash them at the Post Office before shipping. If you list it as an option, but also allow PayPal or other comparable options, I'm not sure I would agree that people would view your listing as a scam.
Believe me...unless I am missing something you can not except checks or money orders. The only way is to break eBay's rules and exchange personal information. Ebay pretty much requires instant payment on any listings these days. I have lost several sales due to this! The BTW, maybe I am lucky but in all my years and thousands of checks later I have yet to receive a bad check!
I would. I'll set up a poll. Someone selling a coin who only wants a payment that cannot be reversed...hmmm...
Never had a check or MO problem. I held everything for 7 business days and made that clear to the purchaser. It was nice to save $100 on a pricey coin. Same was true of the Paypal Echeck which topped out at a $5 fee. Icahn couldn't have that so that option disappeared.
Another factor I don't think I saw on this thread is the balance transfers used to fund a purchase. No cost to Paypal for that yet they will still sting you on a return.
I believe you missed the whole point! I welcome paypal. I am contacted asking if I will accept a check or money order and I say yes. Then they are unable to purchase it unless we take the transaction off of ebay and I just end the listing. I have been able to do that with the folks who know how to google as my contact info isn't hard to find.
.
More for the my item description:
"All returns purchased through paypal will be charged a 2.9% restocking fee. This is necessary because paypal no longer refunds their initial paypal transaction fee to sellers on returned items. The restocking fee will be deducted from any refund we provide. Refunds will be paid out only upon return of original, undamaged merchandise."
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
It will be interesting to see if you can be successful! I would wager at this point ebay is going to side with the buyer. That could change if there is a mass exodus of sellers though. Sellers! It's time to unite!
They can't enforce a "restocking fee", that has been shown in a lot of cases.
Because paypal does something that will not hold up under legal scrutiny does not justify a "post hoc propter hoc" or "look at what you made me do" action.
I got a mailing on a class action against master card and visa today, that is in process, should be interesting, many businesses must be getting this. Something about excess processing fees.
PayPals action holds up under legal scrutiny. It is standard practice in payment processing.