Has anyone noticed there seems to be a big money grab going on in online business services? Looks to me like they feel they are worth as much as the big auction houses earn. The big difference is they have nothing but a bunch of computers humming away making them money!
Forget all the work sellers have to put into a listing,shipping,finding and investing in items to sell. Maybe we should all just quit for awhile...let them feel the pain they place on us, then maybe they will rethink their greedy approach.
The one thing that burns me hard....are those sellers...I'm sure a few are here(actually I know)...that are feeding the ebay greedy promote your item program! If that isn't a money grab I don't know what is.
What ebay sellers need to push for is net neutrality. Ebay used to be that way....not any longer by a very big Looooonnnngggggg shot.
@YQQ said:
Does GTC mean : **Good till Cancelled? **
if so, when can one cancel a listing? will it stay there for ever if it does not sell?
You can cancel it anytime you want - there is a cancel listing page, put in item number and listing closed
There are some sellers that go to shows on weekends and if it sells there, it is no longer available.
Sometimes sellers close because there is a typo or they missed something in listing
@Outhaul said:
I will not sell on eBay . The BS&T is your friend as are B&M and local shows.
You could file a charge back from BST and the same thing would happen if you allow paypal
That may well be true, but I see a fairer representation of a coin on the BS&T than on eBay.
This is clearly an exaggeration or outright lie given the number of professional dealers on ebay. Is there some crap listings? Sure. But there are plenty of high end dealers also
This is my opinion whether you like it or not. I have dealt with far more bad dealers than good on eBay. If you disagree, that's fine. Resorting to name calling is childish and does nothing to further the discussion.
I didn't call you a name. But I've been on BST, the idea that all coins on BST are "fairer representations" than eBay is demonstrably untrue. But you are entitled to your opinion. For example, I don't believe in gravity no matter how you demonstrate it.
I had to call PayPal anyway about another matter so I asked the guy about this keeping the fee on a refund policy,,,,, the guy said the best thing to do is to get as many people as possible to file a complaint and that would be the only way to possibly get PayPal to rethink this. I filed. I didn't have to do anything. The operator filed my complaint.
I would suggest as many people as possible need to do this.
I get very few returns but I had a guy return a $925 coin a few months back. If they had kept the fee of +/- $27 plus my costs of paying for the return you can pretty much kiss any profit good bye,,,,,,, or at least a big part of it.
In a decade we will talk about Ebay in the same context as K-Mart, Montgomery Ward and Radio Shack.
When business students ask the instructor what happened to the company that once did everything right...the answer will be that they then did everything wrong.
@GRANDAM said:
I had to call PayPal anyway about another matter so I asked the guy about this keeping the fee on a refund policy,,,,, the guy said the best thing to do is to get as many people as possible to file a complaint and that would be the only way to possibly get PayPal to rethink this. I filed. I didn't have to do anything. The operator filed my complaint.
I would suggest as many people as possible need to do this.
I get very few returns but I had a guy return a $925 coin a few months back. If they had kept the fee of +/- $27 plus my costs of paying for the return you can pretty much kiss any profit good bye,,,,,,, or at least a big part of it.
PayPal = 888-221-1161 or 402-935-2050
$3000 coin was returned a couple of months ago, so on top of eating the cost of registered mail and return shipping, tack on a cool $90 to paypal.
Yes, it is just a cost of doing business. [Which is why people on this board who are always criticizing dealer business models should try and run a coin business first...]
Yes, it is just a cost of doing business. [Which is why people on this board who are always criticizing dealer business models should try and run a coin business first...]
Coins are a hobby. So don't make it a business.
LOL. It is if you are in the coin business. But you are correct about collectors. Keep it a hobby.
I wonder if ebay pushing free returns has caused an uptick in returns. Perhaps before this ebay move PayPal did this as a courtesy even though it cost them. Now that returns have increased maybe they have no choice to stay profitable with their ebay business.
Thoughts?
PS ebay is going to have to do 1 of several things or I believe it will cost them business!
They are going to have to either back off the free returns or allow restocking fees again or both.
I wonder if ebay pushing free returns has caused an uptick in returns. Perhaps before this ebay move PayPal did this as a courtesy even though it cost them. Now that returns have increased maybe they have no choice to stay profitable with their ebay business.
Thoughts?
PS ebay is going to have to do 1 of several things or I believe it will cost them business!
They are going to have to either back off the free returns or allow restocking fees again or both.
They will not back of of free returns or allow restocking fees for two reasons:
1. eBay can't control the returns or restocking fee because CC chargebacks overrule any eBay policy anyway.
2. All major e-tailers have free returns.
What they could do is suspend repeat returners themselves, which is what other e-tailers also do.
My thoughts are that when eBay started it was geared towards collectors buying and selling things toward their hobby. As it grew, they started pushing bigger ticket items ... vehicles, real estate, business equipment. Around the year 2000, they decided they liked Amazon model of internet storefront. The people using eBay this way, made decent money because they could calculate costs , margins and minimum price accordingly. eBay fees are still cheaper than a storefront in a shopping mall. I remember checking Mall of America years ago and their lease included 15% of your gross receipts. I still get things on eBay drop shipped from Amazon prime, WalMart, Target, and HomeDepot . I then check and usualy can get it cheaper from that source directly.
Now as eBay continues to try to compete with Amazon, they still have to follow them with same day shipping and free returns. I expect in the future they will come out with something like eBay Prime (subscription) for buyers and have free shipping but do away with ebay bucks.
I am missing the point, why use Paypal as a buyer or a seller? I am not a seller and use Paypal to pay almost immediately for an item. I know that many auction sites will give a buyer's a discount if paid by a check or money order. So what is the advantage for a seller to use it? Quick cash? Help, I need somebody...
@WAYNEAS said:
I am missing the point, why use Paypal as a buyer or a seller? I am not a seller and use Paypal to pay almost immediately for an item. I know that many auction sites will give a buyer's a discount if paid by a check or money order. So what is the advantage for a seller to use it? Quick cash? Help, I need somebody...
All the same advantages of credit cards. Off the top of my head:
1. Fraud protection
2. Instant processing
3. Customer financing if they want it
4. Customer confidence [I would never pay cash or check to an eBay seller unless it was Apmex or another behemoth.]
If paypal steals 3% on a return, that is the only word for it because when an item is returned the buyer and seller more or less agree to cancel the transaction follow legal action. So how is it that paypal is able to interfere with a cancelled contract like a loanshark seizing control of a quick 3%? On what basis? No bank could play that stunt.
I would recommend after they take the 3%, state all your grievances with a state AG/Consumer agency filing. Next course is to have your lawyer write a letter to paypal. Go on social media and air your grievances. Since this is across the country federal politicians could also exert their leverage.
Ways around using the "quick, efficient" paypal, is to use an e-check like a notable member did with me; arrives in email and gets deposited without transaction costs, cheap alternative.
@logger7 said:
If paypal steals 3% on a return, that is the only word for it because when an item is returned the buyer and seller more or less agree to cancel the transaction follow legal action. So how is it that paypal is able to interfere with a cancelled contract like a loanshark seizing control of a quick 3%? On what basis? No bank could play that stunt.
I would recommend after they take the 3%, state all your grievances with a state AG/Consumer agency filing. Next course is to have your lawyer write a letter to paypal. Go on social media and air your grievances. Since this is across the country federal politicians could also exert their leverage.
Actually, credit card companies do the same thing it turns out. Google it. I did. I was surprised because as a buyer I've never seen it, but the retailers have been eating reversal fees for decades.
@jcocoin said:
The thing I've noticed happening to me recently is a buyer buys a coin, pays right away, then within an hour or so (Sometimes within 15 minutes) asks for the sale to be cancelled. Sounds like I will now be out the Paypal fee on these. Is this happening to anyone else?
Yes this has been happening to me lately too.
Last couple of months 5 times.
This had not happened before.
I wonder if ebay pushing free returns has caused an uptick in returns. Perhaps before this ebay move PayPal did this as a courtesy even though it cost them. Now that returns have increased maybe they have no choice to stay profitable with their ebay business.
Thoughts?
PS ebay is going to have to do 1 of several things or I believe it will cost them business!
They are going to have to either back off the free returns or allow restocking fees again or both.
Very good post.
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
@jmlanzaf said:
This is interesting. According to this, CC have been keeping the fees on refunded transactions. So, PayPal is just falling into line.
\
A few points:
Quora is not an authoritative website and anyone can post anything, including for topics that they know nothing about.
The fees would be governed by your contract with the payment processor company. These are subject to variations.
Counterpoint. If you do the research, Quora is correct on this as you can find the terms and conditions for multiple payment processors. Some of which actually charge a refund fee IN ADDITION to keeping the original transaction fee.
Bottom line: PayPal is NOT out of line with what CC companies do. [unfortunately] And it would be a waste of time to call AGs etc as it is clearly legal for them to do so.
Essentially, PayPal is keeping the fee for providing the service. And, in fact, they did successfully execute the service.
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
A few years ago ebay sellers were paying as little as 1.9% with paypal which was very high volume, I think I had 2.2%, now we are up to 3% with new rules on the horizon. I'm glad I am doing a lot less.
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
True, but it is a business of percentages. If one runs a no return auction, buyer can try to force a charge back (a recent thread had Paypal back up the seller in > @jmlanzaf said:
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
Buyer can always file a chargeback. It may or may not be successful.
Either way,this will change the fabric of Ebay at least a bit. Sellers have been prodded by a stick to extend free shipping (both ways), next day service and now a 3% additional hit for all of that trouble.
Once little more than a nuisance of modest cost to the seller, return of a $1000 coin will now be a $40-50 hit. There will certainly be push back of some sort...at the least we will be seeing a lot more threads from disgruntled sellers.
@jcocoin said:
The thing I've noticed happening to me recently is a buyer buys a coin, pays right away, then within an hour or so (Sometimes within 15 minutes) asks for the sale to be cancelled. Sounds like I will now be out the Paypal fee on these. Is this happening to anyone else?
Happened to me maybe 4-5 times in the last year or two. They buy an item, pay via PayPal, then immediately request cancellation and refund (which is mandatory per eBay rules). So, you're initially out $0.30 in PayPal because of how they do refunds and then must relist your item. Not a huge deal. But then a few weeks later, you get an email from PayPal saying that that buyer's echeck payment was bad and hopefully that email also says that they will be taking the loss and you won't be losing anything more out of your account.
This new rule about losing all of the PayPal fee may have me looking to find another way to take payment than PayPal. Not sure that works too well for eBay though... for now, I guess I'll just email PayPal and eBay and tell them their new policy sucks. If enough do that maybe it will get reversed.
Just mark the coins shipped once you see they paid which ends that.
No issue marking them shipped a few hours before they actually are mailed out.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
True, but it is a business of percentages. If one runs a no return auction, buyer can try to force a charge back (a recent thread had Paypal back up the seller in > @jmlanzaf said:
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
Buyer can always file a chargeback. It may or may not be successful.
Either way,this will change the fabric of Ebay at least a bit. Sellers have been prodded by a stick to extend free shipping (both ways), next day service and now a 3% additional hit for all of that trouble.
Once little more than a nuisance of modest cost to the seller, return of a $1000 coin will now be a $40-50 hit. There will certainly be push back of some sort...at the least we will be seeing a lot more threads from disgruntled sellers.
Why are you blaming ebay for PayPal changing policy?
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
True, but it is a business of percentages. If one runs a no return auction, buyer can try to force a charge back (a recent thread had Paypal back up the seller in > @jmlanzaf said:
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
Buyer can always file a chargeback. It may or may not be successful.
Either way,this will change the fabric of Ebay at least a bit. Sellers have been prodded by a stick to extend free shipping (both ways), next day service and now a 3% additional hit for all of that trouble.
Once little more than a nuisance of modest cost to the seller, return of a $1000 coin will now be a $40-50 hit. There will certainly be push back of some sort...at the least we will be seeing a lot more threads from disgruntled sellers.
Why are you blaming ebay for PayPal changing policy?
I just left Feedback to PayPal. It was along the lines of "I am about this close to kissing both you and eBay goodbye. For years I have refused to take PP F&F for items sold, even when people offer. But keeping your fee for returned items is out and out thievery. Congratulations, I no longer feel any obligation to be honest with PayPal."
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
True, but it is a business of percentages. If one runs a no return auction, buyer can try to force a charge back (a recent thread had Paypal back up the seller in > @jmlanzaf said:
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
Buyer can always file a chargeback. It may or may not be successful.
Either way,this will change the fabric of Ebay at least a bit. Sellers have been prodded by a stick to extend free shipping (both ways), next day service and now a 3% additional hit for all of that trouble.
Once little more than a nuisance of modest cost to the seller, return of a $1000 coin will now be a $40-50 hit. There will certainly be push back of some sort...at the least we will be seeing a lot more threads from disgruntled sellers.
Why are you blaming ebay for PayPal changing policy?
I am not blaming Ebay for Paypal's action. Though they are separate entities now it is difficult to do business on Ebay without receiving payments through Paypal.
This will affect Ebay greatly. They have not fully absorbed the impact of taxation on sales and adding a deal killer charge on returns will chase a number more off the site. It will probably still work for the sellers with 50 margins, but sellers of PCGS holdered coins will find other avenues.
@giorgio11 said:
I just left Feedback to PayPal. It was along the lines of "I am about this close to kissing both you and eBay goodbye. For years I have refused to take PP F&F for items sold, even when people offer. But keeping your fee for returned items is out and out thievery. Congratulations, I no longer feel any obligation to be honest with PayPal."
One should always be honest with those that they conduct business with. Holding back the fee is not thievery but certainly runs counter to Ebay's virtual requirement to accept returns.
Maybe this will help the new Ebay payment system. Certainly needs to be looked into more closely.
No matter who is to blame, I have to agree online sales are being attacked from many fronts. The costs to sell online have gone up tremendously in the last few years.
Roughly 2 years ago it costs $1.61 to ship a 4 ounce package with tracking, now it's as high as $3.09.
Paypal fees for me went from 2.2% to 2.9%.
Top Rated seller discount went from 20% to 10% and requires free returns to keep it now.
Minor increase in FVF fees(I believe .4%?)
The cost for me to maintain the same number of listings static cost went up around $200 per month.
Sales tax being enforced will drive away buyers.
And now add to the list 2.9% on returns.
@amwldcoin said:
No matter who is to blame, I have to agree online sales are being attacked from many fronts. The costs to sell online have gone up tremendously in the last few years.
Roughly 2 years ago it costs $1.61 to ship a 4 ounce package with tracking, now it's as high as $3.09.
Paypal fees for me went from 2.2% to 2.9%.
Top Rated seller discount went from 20% to 10% and requires free returns to keep it now.
Minor increase in FVF fees(I believe .4%?)
The cost for me to maintain the same number of listings static cost went up around $200 per month.
Sales tax being enforced will drive away buyers.
And now add to the list 2.9% on returns.
@amwldcoin said:
No matter who is to blame, I have to agree online sales are being attacked from many fronts. The costs to sell online have gone up tremendously in the last few years.
Roughly 2 years ago it costs $1.61 to ship a 4 ounce package with tracking, now it's as high as $3.09.
Paypal fees for me went from 2.2% to 2.9%.
Top Rated seller discount went from 20% to 10% and requires free returns to keep it now.
Minor increase in FVF fees(I believe .4%?)
The cost for me to maintain the same number of listings static cost went up around $200 per month.
Sales tax being enforced will drive away buyers.
And now add to the list 2.9% on returns.
@amwldcoin said:
No matter who is to blame, I have to agree online sales are being attacked from many fronts. The costs to sell online have gone up tremendously in the last few years.
Roughly 2 years ago it costs $1.61 to ship a 4 ounce package with tracking, now it's as high as $3.09.
Paypal fees for me went from 2.2% to 2.9%.
Top Rated seller discount went from 20% to 10% and requires free returns to keep it now.
Minor increase in FVF fees(I believe .4%?)
The cost for me to maintain the same number of listings static cost went up around $200 per month.
Sales tax being enforced will drive away buyers.
And now add to the list 2.9% on returns.
Certainly looks like a recipe for disaster to me!
Plus the $28 a month for the store fee.
Got it. The $200 per month threw me off. Do you have an anchor store?
@giorgio11 said:
I just left Feedback to PayPal. It was along the lines of "I am about this close to kissing both you and eBay goodbye. For years I have refused to take PP F&F for items sold, even when people offer. But keeping your fee for returned items is out and out thievery. Congratulations, I no longer feel any obligation to be honest with PayPal."
One should always be honest with those that they conduct business with. Holding back the fee is not thievery but certainly runs counter to Ebay's virtual requirement to accept returns.
Maybe this will help the new Ebay payment system. Certainly needs to be looked into more closely.
That is your opinion. Keeping money for doing nothing is theft. That is my opinion.
@giorgio11 said:
I just left Feedback to PayPal. It was along the lines of "I am about this close to kissing both you and eBay goodbye. For years I have refused to take PP F&F for items sold, even when people offer. But keeping your fee for returned items is out and out thievery. Congratulations, I no longer feel any obligation to be honest with PayPal."
One should always be honest with those that they conduct business with. Holding back the fee is not thievery but certainly runs counter to Ebay's virtual requirement to accept returns.
Maybe this will help the new Ebay payment system. Certainly needs to be looked into more closely.
That is your opinion. Keeping money for doing nothing is theft. That is my opinion.
We can debate the term as we wish. Either way the move is detrimental to online sellers, particularly to those utilizing a struggling Ebay.
On the other hand, the long penalized brick and mortar store still surviving may benefit. Guess every sword has two edges.
Your consistent bashing of sellers of PCGS graded coins that have concerns about their selling partners*, Ebay and Paypal has gotten tiresome and redundant.
PCGS is the best third party grader in the business. As the market accepted leader, the coins trade at prices with tight spreads. Because of this, those that once did well selling through Ebay and Paypal are now challenged with the ever increasing fees and requirements that can quickly eat up a 15-20% spread.
Not much room in a $2000 MS 66 Saint that a dealer pays $1700 for, after the $200 in fees and shipping. Tack on $160 in sales tax on the buyer side.
A return will cost the seller about $80 with the new Paypal terms.
Did before not now. I sat dead in the middle...pay listing fees on 1500-2000 over the middle store or pay for the new crazy 10,000 listing anchor store. So I just cut back on the number of listings I have. Now with the GTC I'm cutting back even more.
@amwldcoin said:
No matter who is to blame, I have to agree online sales are being attacked from many fronts. The costs to sell online have gone up tremendously in the last few years.
Roughly 2 years ago it costs $1.61 to ship a 4 ounce package with tracking, now it's as high as $3.09.
Paypal fees for me went from 2.2% to 2.9%.
Top Rated seller discount went from 20% to 10% and requires free returns to keep it now.
Minor increase in FVF fees(I believe .4%?)
The cost for me to maintain the same number of listings static cost went up around $200 per month.
Sales tax being enforced will drive away buyers.
And now add to the list 2.9% on returns.
Certainly looks like a recipe for disaster to me!
Plus the $28 a month for the store fee.
Got it. The $200 per month threw me off. Do you have an anchor store?
@jmlanzaf said:
Bottom line: PayPal is NOT out of line with what CC companies do. [unfortunately] And it would be a waste of time to call AGs etc as it is clearly legal for them to do so.
Essentially, PayPal is keeping the fee for providing the service. And, in fact, they did successfully execute the service.
I never said it was illegal. I said it would likely harm their business with smaller sellers and individuals at least. I see this as a positive for PayPal alternatives that do not charge the fees on refunds, and PayPal could lose its market share if an able competitor steps up to the plate to fill in the gap.
If PayPal keeps borrowing from eBay's play book, it might find itself in a similar position.
Could be. They always seemed to be the smarter half of the corporation when they were together. Certainly the customer service was much more competent.
Your consistent bashing of sellers of PCGS graded coins that have concerns about their selling partners*, Ebay and Paypal has gotten tiresome and redundant.
PCGS is the best third party grader in the business. As the market accepted leader, the coins trade at prices with tight spreads. Because of this, those that once did well selling through Ebay and Paypal are now challenged with the ever increasing fees and requirements that can quickly eat up a 15-20% spread.
Not much room in a $2000 MS 66 Saint that a dealer pays $1700 for, after the $200 in fees and shipping. Tack on $160 in sales tax on the buyer side.
A return will cost the seller about $80 with the new Paypal terms.
Ebay will soon be a memory.
The eBay Bucks have to come from somewhere.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Comments
Is it possible **NOT **to accept payment by CC or check via Paypal?
meaning a buyer has to pay from an existing PP balance.
Has anyone noticed there seems to be a big money grab going on in online business services? Looks to me like they feel they are worth as much as the big auction houses earn. The big difference is they have nothing but a bunch of computers humming away making them money!
Forget all the work sellers have to put into a listing,shipping,finding and investing in items to sell. Maybe we should all just quit for awhile...let them feel the pain they place on us, then maybe they will rethink their greedy approach.
The one thing that burns me hard....are those sellers...I'm sure a few are here(actually I know)...that are feeding the ebay greedy promote your item program! If that isn't a money grab I don't know what is.
What ebay sellers need to push for is net neutrality. Ebay used to be that way....not any longer by a very big Looooonnnngggggg shot.
Does GTC mean : **Good till Cancelled? **
if so, when can one cancel a listing? will it stay there for ever if it does not sell?
You can cancel it anytime you want - there is a cancel listing page, put in item number and listing closed
There are some sellers that go to shows on weekends and if it sells there, it is no longer available.
Sometimes sellers close because there is a typo or they missed something in listing
Well that settles it... Bitcoin from here on out.
Collector, occasional seller
I didn't call you a name. But I've been on BST, the idea that all coins on BST are "fairer representations" than eBay is demonstrably untrue. But you are entitled to your opinion. For example, I don't believe in gravity no matter how you demonstrate it.
This is interesting. According to this, CC have been keeping the fees on refunded transactions. So, PayPal is just falling into line.
https://quora.com/How-are-credit-card-processing-fees-handled-upon-a-product-return
I had to call PayPal anyway about another matter so I asked the guy about this keeping the fee on a refund policy,,,,, the guy said the best thing to do is to get as many people as possible to file a complaint and that would be the only way to possibly get PayPal to rethink this. I filed. I didn't have to do anything. The operator filed my complaint.
I would suggest as many people as possible need to do this.
I get very few returns but I had a guy return a $925 coin a few months back. If they had kept the fee of +/- $27 plus my costs of paying for the return you can pretty much kiss any profit good bye,,,,,,, or at least a big part of it.
PayPal = 888-221-1161 or 402-935-2050
Icahn spinoff bites Ebay hard in the rear.
In a decade we will talk about Ebay in the same context as K-Mart, Montgomery Ward and Radio Shack.
When business students ask the instructor what happened to the company that once did everything right...the answer will be that they then did everything wrong.
Don’t know what a Platftum is so I’m guessing it not true.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
$3000 coin was returned a couple of months ago, so on top of eating the cost of registered mail and return shipping, tack on a cool $90 to paypal.
No mas
I finally received the email on 1 of my accounts. Reading all the other stuff I think PayPal is about to shoot themselves in the foot.
Coins are a hobby. So don't make it a business.
LOL. It is if you are in the coin business. But you are correct about collectors. Keep it a hobby.
Been pondering on this a bit.
I wonder if ebay pushing free returns has caused an uptick in returns. Perhaps before this ebay move PayPal did this as a courtesy even though it cost them. Now that returns have increased maybe they have no choice to stay profitable with their ebay business.
Thoughts?
PS ebay is going to have to do 1 of several things or I believe it will cost them business!
They are going to have to either back off the free returns or allow restocking fees again or both.
They will not back of of free returns or allow restocking fees for two reasons:
1. eBay can't control the returns or restocking fee because CC chargebacks overrule any eBay policy anyway.
2. All major e-tailers have free returns.
What they could do is suspend repeat returners themselves, which is what other e-tailers also do.
My thoughts are that when eBay started it was geared towards collectors buying and selling things toward their hobby. As it grew, they started pushing bigger ticket items ... vehicles, real estate, business equipment. Around the year 2000, they decided they liked Amazon model of internet storefront. The people using eBay this way, made decent money because they could calculate costs , margins and minimum price accordingly. eBay fees are still cheaper than a storefront in a shopping mall. I remember checking Mall of America years ago and their lease included 15% of your gross receipts. I still get things on eBay drop shipped from Amazon prime, WalMart, Target, and HomeDepot . I then check and usualy can get it cheaper from that source directly.
Now as eBay continues to try to compete with Amazon, they still have to follow them with same day shipping and free returns. I expect in the future they will come out with something like eBay Prime (subscription) for buyers and have free shipping but do away with ebay bucks.
I am missing the point, why use Paypal as a buyer or a seller? I am not a seller and use Paypal to pay almost immediately for an item. I know that many auction sites will give a buyer's a discount if paid by a check or money order. So what is the advantage for a seller to use it? Quick cash? Help, I need somebody...
Kennedys are my quest...
All the same advantages of credit cards. Off the top of my head:
1. Fraud protection
2. Instant processing
3. Customer financing if they want it
4. Customer confidence [I would never pay cash or check to an eBay seller unless it was Apmex or another behemoth.]
If paypal steals 3% on a return, that is the only word for it because when an item is returned the buyer and seller more or less agree to cancel the transaction follow legal action. So how is it that paypal is able to interfere with a cancelled contract like a loanshark seizing control of a quick 3%? On what basis? No bank could play that stunt.
I would recommend after they take the 3%, state all your grievances with a state AG/Consumer agency filing. Next course is to have your lawyer write a letter to paypal. Go on social media and air your grievances. Since this is across the country federal politicians could also exert their leverage.
Ways around using the "quick, efficient" paypal, is to use an e-check like a notable member did with me; arrives in email and gets deposited without transaction costs, cheap alternative.
Actually, credit card companies do the same thing it turns out. Google it. I did. I was surprised because as a buyer I've never seen it, but the retailers have been eating reversal fees for decades.
Yes this has been happening to me lately too.
Last couple of months 5 times.
This had not happened before.
A few points:
Very good post.
I processed a medium sized return two weeks ago. Ebay gave me the option of deducting a percentage of my choice from the refund. Never recall seeing that before.
They must be getting ahead of the paypal change of terms. Perhaps we can now list a restock fee of some sort.
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Counterpoint. If you do the research, Quora is correct on this as you can find the terms and conditions for multiple payment processors. Some of which actually charge a refund fee IN ADDITION to keeping the original transaction fee.
Bottom line: PayPal is NOT out of line with what CC companies do. [unfortunately] And it would be a waste of time to call AGs etc as it is clearly legal for them to do so.
Essentially, PayPal is keeping the fee for providing the service. And, in fact, they did successfully execute the service.
Except, of course, the buyer has to be willing to accept that or they will simply file a chargeback.
A few years ago ebay sellers were paying as little as 1.9% with paypal which was very high volume, I think I had 2.2%, now we are up to 3% with new rules on the horizon. I'm glad I am doing a lot less.
True, but it is a business of percentages. If one runs a no return auction, buyer can try to force a charge back (a recent thread had Paypal back up the seller in > @jmlanzaf said:
Buyer can always file a chargeback. It may or may not be successful.
Either way,this will change the fabric of Ebay at least a bit. Sellers have been prodded by a stick to extend free shipping (both ways), next day service and now a 3% additional hit for all of that trouble.
Once little more than a nuisance of modest cost to the seller, return of a $1000 coin will now be a $40-50 hit. There will certainly be push back of some sort...at the least we will be seeing a lot more threads from disgruntled sellers.
Just mark the coins shipped once you see they paid which ends that.
No issue marking them shipped a few hours before they actually are mailed out.
Why are you blaming ebay for PayPal changing policy?
Goggle "who owns PayPal" and decide for yourself.
Kennedys are my quest...
I just left Feedback to PayPal. It was along the lines of "I am about this close to kissing both you and eBay goodbye. For years I have refused to take PP F&F for items sold, even when people offer. But keeping your fee for returned items is out and out thievery. Congratulations, I no longer feel any obligation to be honest with PayPal."
So many ridiculous statements in this thread. like "For years I have refused to take PP "
Do I like the new policy, of course not. But I would also never shoot myself in the foot.
A few here seem to hate paypal and ebay so much that it hurts their business, that is if they even have a real business.
Move on, move forward, work to make your business the best it can be.
I am not blaming Ebay for Paypal's action. Though they are separate entities now it is difficult to do business on Ebay without receiving payments through Paypal.
This will affect Ebay greatly. They have not fully absorbed the impact of taxation on sales and adding a deal killer charge on returns will chase a number more off the site. It will probably still work for the sellers with 50 margins, but sellers of PCGS holdered coins will find other avenues.
Great Collection just got way more attractive.
You are truly an idiot!!
One should always be honest with those that they conduct business with. Holding back the fee is not thievery but certainly runs counter to Ebay's virtual requirement to accept returns.
Maybe this will help the new Ebay payment system. Certainly needs to be looked into more closely.
No matter who is to blame, I have to agree online sales are being attacked from many fronts. The costs to sell online have gone up tremendously in the last few years.
Roughly 2 years ago it costs $1.61 to ship a 4 ounce package with tracking, now it's as high as $3.09.
Paypal fees for me went from 2.2% to 2.9%.
Top Rated seller discount went from 20% to 10% and requires free returns to keep it now.
Minor increase in FVF fees(I believe .4%?)
The cost for me to maintain the same number of listings static cost went up around $200 per month.
Sales tax being enforced will drive away buyers.
And now add to the list 2.9% on returns.
Certainly looks like a recipe for disaster to me!
Plus the $28 a month for the store fee.
x
That's where the $200 I mentioned comes in.
Got it. The $200 per month threw me off. Do you have an anchor store?
That is your opinion. Keeping money for doing nothing is theft. That is my opinion.
We can debate the term as we wish. Either way the move is detrimental to online sellers, particularly to those utilizing a struggling Ebay.
On the other hand, the long penalized brick and mortar store still surviving may benefit. Guess every sword has two edges.
Your consistent bashing of sellers of PCGS graded coins that have concerns about their selling partners*, Ebay and Paypal has gotten tiresome and redundant.
PCGS is the best third party grader in the business. As the market accepted leader, the coins trade at prices with tight spreads. Because of this, those that once did well selling through Ebay and Paypal are now challenged with the ever increasing fees and requirements that can quickly eat up a 15-20% spread.
Not much room in a $2000 MS 66 Saint that a dealer pays $1700 for, after the $200 in fees and shipping. Tack on $160 in sales tax on the buyer side.
A return will cost the seller about $80 with the new Paypal terms.
Ebay will soon be a memory.
Did before not now. I sat dead in the middle...pay listing fees on 1500-2000 over the middle store or pay for the new crazy 10,000 listing anchor store. So I just cut back on the number of listings I have. Now with the GTC I'm cutting back even more.
I never said it was illegal. I said it would likely harm their business with smaller sellers and individuals at least. I see this as a positive for PayPal alternatives that do not charge the fees on refunds, and PayPal could lose its market share if an able competitor steps up to the plate to fill in the gap.
If PayPal keeps borrowing from eBay's play book, it might find itself in a similar position.
Could be. They always seemed to be the smarter half of the corporation when they were together. Certainly the customer service was much more competent.
The eBay Bucks have to come from somewhere.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.