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Newly found branch mint proof specimen?? TAKE A LOOK!

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  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,465 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    @JBK

    Aw shucks.... ur gonna make me blush :D

    Thank You! :)

    You certainly earned your keep - I'll start giving all your posts a like or agree so that you get your 5th star sooner than later (not that it makes any difference having 5 stars). I'd give you one of mine but I don't know how I earned them so I might not get it back. :p

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    $1.14 and FREE SHIPPING from China!

    I wonder if anyone has proposed to the government that the best way to defeat the Chinese threat is to buy $1 items from Aliexpress and let the Chinese government go bankrupt on the shipping subsidy!

    Maybe the Chinese government negotiated a great deal USPS, and it is the USPS providing a shipping subsidy.

    I got this great card protector after waiting 6 weeks, but it was worth it.

    https://ebay.com/itm/Retro-1881-E-Pluribus-Unum-Nackter-weiblicher-Schütze-Silberdollar-1-Silbermü/113470528652?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now if I can only remember what I learned.

    Not being facetious.

    I did learn something that should have been obvious.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019 10:41AM

    Just realized insider2 has posted something related exactly to this as I was going through some of my old responses looking for a coin I've posted before.
    I'll add it here as a reference link.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12231358/#Comment_12231358

    @Insider2 said:
    Image provided by the ANA's Numismatist magazine. The anonymous writer claims that the doubling resulted from a laser used to make the counterfeit die.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • maplemanmapleman Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019 2:04PM

    Shape of o in god seems off to this non expert.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019 11:09AM

    Would be better if this pile of felgerkarb thread were locked and left up for educational purposes rather than poofed.
    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,465 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yspsales said:
    Now if I can only remember what I learned.

    Not being facetious.

    I did learn something that should have been obvious.

    Yes, there is a lot to digest. I think I will book mark the thread and refer back to it occasionally.

    One thing that sticks in my mind is the reminder that on dies which had a mintmark added separately (all older dies), identical doubling on everything (incl MM) should not occur.

    Also, a “perfect strike” does not necessarily prove authenticity.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    $1.14 and FREE SHIPPING from China!

    I wonder if anyone has proposed to the government that the best way to defeat the Chinese threat is to buy $1 items from Aliexpress and let the Chinese government go bankrupt on the shipping subsidy!

    Maybe the Chinese government negotiated a great deal USPS, and it is the USPS providing a shipping subsidy.

    I got this great card protector after waiting 6 weeks, but it was worth it.

    International postal rates are determined by UPU. So, no, it is the Chinese government unless the distributor ships from a U.S. address.

    upu.int/en/activities/transport/basic-rate-and-internal-air-conveyance-rates.html

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    $1.14 and FREE SHIPPING from China!

    I wonder if anyone has proposed to the government that the best way to defeat the Chinese threat is to buy $1 items from Aliexpress and let the Chinese government go bankrupt on the shipping subsidy!

    Maybe the Chinese government negotiated a great deal USPS, and it is the USPS providing a shipping subsidy.

    I got this great card protector after waiting 6 weeks, but it was worth it.

    https://ebay.com/itm/Retro-1881-E-Pluribus-Unum-Nackter-weiblicher-Schütze-Silberdollar-1-Silbermü/113470528652?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

    ooo...Chinese hobo dollars!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Just realized insider2 has posted something related exactly to this as I was going through some of my old responses looking for a coin I've posted before.
    I'll add it here as a reference link.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12231358/#Comment_12231358

    @Insider2 said:
    Image provided by the ANA's Numismatist magazine. The anonymous writer claims that the doubling resulted from a laser used to make the counterfeit die.

    Excellent catch!

    Yes, this coin coupled with the @insider2 coin sort of prove two things:
    1. The Chinese dies are laser cut (hence the stria on the 1887-S)
    2. The Chinese need better vibration isolation in their workshops because the laser raster is creating doubled dies!!!

    AND we also can get ready because:
    3. Chinese counterfeiters accidentally create doubled dies which are going to start to get posted to this board by the hundreds!

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nope. Nicely detailed, but not struck on a medal press (SF didn't have one), not properly polished for a proof (SF used lime to resurface dies and never polishing rouge), not a proof.

    But- remains a nice coin.

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019 11:56AM

    @JBK said:

    Also, a “perfect strike” does not necessarily prove authenticity.

    Ain't that the truth!

    Not sure what stretch of logic got him to, "It doesn't look like any other Morgan I've ever seen....therefore it must be real!!" :frowning:

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @Barucci911 said:
    This guy will be giving me a full refund plus “emotional distress $$$” 😂😂

    you mean, giving the forum emotional distress money!

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Nope. Nicely detailed, but not struck on a medal press (SF didn't have one), not properly polished for a proof (SF used lime to resurface dies and never polishing rouge), not a proof.

    But- remains a nice coin.

    Oh. this is embarrassing.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,792 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019 12:36PM

    AT.

    Reminds me, did the OP weigh the coin? Silver-plated copper would be easy to distinguish. I thought that all the tests had been run.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,465 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TradesWithChops said:

    @RogerB said:
    Nope. Nicely detailed, but not struck on a medal press (SF didn't have one), not properly polished for a proof (SF used lime to resurface dies and never polishing rouge), not a proof.

    But- remains a nice coin.

    Oh. this is embarrassing.

    Now that you have all quoted him he can't just edit it out of existence! :/:D

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another amazing journey down the wormhole with another alt.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    AT.

    Reminds me, did the OP weigh the coin? Silver-plated copper would be easy to distinguish. I thought that all the tests had been run.

    Yes he weighed it. But those are actually struck in silver...which is why they aren't $1.14 like the cheap ones.

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Makes me want to buy a few counterfeit Morgans just for educational purposes.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    @yspsales said:
    Makes me want to buy a few counterfeit Morgans just for educational purposes.

    dont do it. dont feed the hand that may single handedly take down the industry.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,833 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there an apple badge for the teacher? :D

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, I'm amazed by the expertise here. No doubt about that.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • FranklinHalfAddictFranklinHalfAddict Posts: 670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019 1:50PM

    @AUandAG said:
    Looks messed with and AT to my eyes. Rims are not proper for a proof specimen.

    bob

    Agreed. Whether it’s genuine or not, the toning is artificial.

    Didn’t read full thread before posting.
    I now see it is confirmed fake.

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have I read this thread before??? :p

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2019 8:49AM

    "...is that the Morgan I have shown has the strongest strike out of any Morgan I’ve seen"

    I agree.

    You said this several times and that's why I agreed with the others that it had to be fake. The detail on the hair above the ear and breast feathers on the reverse were sharper than and UNLIKE any proof that I have seen. It didn't look like anything that I've seen, and I've seen many, many of these dollars, too. That's exactly what makes it very suspicious.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • SeatedTonersSeatedToners Posts: 392 ✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    I am coming to the party late, sorry. I do not like the engraving on the hair, eyes, etc. The "lesser" details are missing and the simple bits (eg hair strands) are more deeply incised into the die. I think this gives the mistaken impression that it is well struck, not to mention the more modern means counterfeiters have of producing their version of the original coins.
    This is the part of just not looking right....

    Totally agree with this about the hair looking off. Especially the curls of hair closest to the neck. Morgan’s aren’t my series, but the hair just looked off to me.

  • kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    I have learned a lot by observing threads like this one where it turns out to be fake. Today I learned that there is such a thing as "laser doubling".

    I'm curious - if eBay intervenes on behalf of the OP and gets them a refund, do they have to return the "coin"?

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Barucci911 said:
    Here are some more pics, natural sunlight. Gonna try and have this really photographed professionally soon.


    e

    o

    Obviously fake.
    It's your money to waste though.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kbbpll said:
    I have learned a lot by observing threads like this one where it turns out to be fake. Today I learned that there is such a thing as "laser doubling".

    I'm curious - if eBay intervenes on behalf of the OP and gets them a refund, do they have to return the "coin"?

    If they didn't, wouldn't it be stealing?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kbbpll said:
    I have learned a lot by observing threads like this one where it turns out to be fake. Today I learned that there is such a thing as "laser doubling".

    I'm curious - if eBay intervenes on behalf of the OP and gets them a refund, do they have to return the "coin"?

    Usually. You don't get the money and the item.

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it is a counterfeit, ebay will refund, and normally, you do not ship it back.

    In some ways, that is great, others it just feeds the bear. Also, the person selling the fake is not going to pay for a $9 return label on a $2 fake. It is just the cost of doing business, losing a few along the way.

  • kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    I was curious because you would be returning a known counterfeit to a known seller of counterfeits. Sort of like "aiding and abetting" a future crime.

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a great thread! Appreciate the enthusiasm of the OP. I thought I cherried a MPL Lincoln... and I was a bit older than 19!

    Also really appreciate those who (gently) educated the OP.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kbbpll said:
    I was curious because you would be returning a known counterfeit to a known seller of counterfeits. Sort of like "aiding and abetting" a future crime.

    If the seller is intentionally selling counterfeits (accidents happen), he can get 100 new ones from Aliexpress.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2019 3:41PM

    Is that Chinese? Nice workmanship. Could be Gallery Mint :p

    Hair and breast feather detail incredible. As in unbelievable.

    I'll take a 33-S Walker any day :#

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:
    Is that Chinese? Nice workmanship. Could be Gallery Mint :p

    Hair and breast feather detail incredible. As in unbelievable.

    I'll take a 33-S Walker any day :#

    Did we ever look for 33-S walkers on AliExpress?

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ilikemonsters said:
    @Hemispherical Wow, where did you find so many Branch Mint Proofs?!?!

    From the new branch Mint -> Shanghai

  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭

    Well, if there is one thing I learned here today, its that Ali Baba and his 40 Thieves are alive and very busy.

    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • Occam’s Razor.

    "A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes"--Hugh Downs
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    200!

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