Legality of 19th century large cent electrotypes
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
Questions about the contemporary legality of 19th century electrotypes of large cents and half cents has occasionally come up on this and other message boards. The following extracts from RG104 E-235 vol 015, pages 415 and 427, and the Coinage Act of 1873 reference, might clarify (or obfuscate) the discussion.
Page 415
Page 427
Act of 1873, Section 62 text:
**Coinage Act of 1873. Sec. 62. **
"That if, any person or persons shall falsely make, forge, or counterfeit, or cause or procure to be falsely made, forged, or counterfeited, or willingly aid or assist in falsely making, forging, or counterfeiting, any coin in the resemblance or similitude of any of the minor coinage which has been, or hereafter may be, coined at the mints of the United States; or shall pass, utter, publish, or sell, or bring into the United States from any foreign place, or have in his possession any such false, forged, or counterfeited coin, with intent to defraud any body politic or corporation, or any person or persons whatsoever, every person so offending shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by fine not exceeding one thousand dollars and by imprisonment and confinement at hard labor not exceeding three years."
Comments
Were any people convicted of felonies?
Newspapers often contained articles about counterfeit coins and the capture and conviction of perpetrators. But I've seen nothing about coin collector electrotypes. Hobby publications suggest they were accepted as legitimate educational items but not bought and sold as real coins.
I would like to see PCGS or NGC certify them / They are very collectable and some great examples
What's a good way to get these certified? Does there need to be an influential collector with a large number of these?
Not a large cent, but PCGS did certify this one:
Have a marvelous Birch Cent / 1793 half cent/ 1804 large cent/ 1796 half cent/
Try contacting our hosts? I've always wondered what convinced them to start slabbing chop marked Trade Dollars. Perhaps something similar can happen here?
Yeah, never understood "authenticating" mutilated coins.
Though the Mint did make electrotypes in the mid-19th Century, I strongly suspect that whoever answered the letters in 1878 did not understand the question.
I've not seen the original letter. Could be in E-1 or E-229 (box 3 of 17 covers this date range).
I would think that - at least now - electrotype of a coin would be as much forgery as any other method.... Though as I understand it.. the crime comes in passing the fake as real. If made and so labeled for display, that might be accepted. Cheers, RickO
I think the key word is "intent." Making an electrotype for the purpose of collecting a rare, unaffordable piece is not the same as intending to defraud someone into paying foe a copy, thinking it is the real McCoy.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Perhaps a case could be made for the argument that “intent” can protect the maker of a counterfeit from prosecution without making the coin not a counterfeit. Let’s say that I win the Powerball and decide to give my wife a necklace with an 1849 $20 in it. Money is no object and a credible copy is made for me. It goes into a bezel on necklace and she wears it every day.
Eventually we die. Is the coin not still a counterfeit?
Under modern US law "intent to defraud" is implicit in making a thing look like a coin, In the 1873 section the interpretation might have been a little different, although Secret Service cases from that era and courts routinely reject the "I didn't intend" argument. The rejection appears to be based on the perpetrator making more than one item, or in uttering it in commerce.
To me, Linderman's initial reaction is consistent with the above interpretation.
Maybe there's an expert on 19th century US law out there.
There are tons of electrotypes listed in the 19th auction sale catalogs.
The reason that PCGS started assigning numerical grades to chopmarked Trade Dollars was due to the influence of a very well known collector who personally valued them and made a push for them to be slabbed as they are today, the tradedollarnut himself.
Maybe this beautiful coin can be slabbed -- only minor damage -- probably from pork chop marks....!