Home Sports Talk

Ichiro to announce retirement today

24

Comments

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    actuary noun
    ac·​tu·​ary | \ ˈak-chə-ˌwer-ē , -shə-, -ˌwe-rē-\
    plural actuaries
    Definition of actuary
    1 obsolete : CLERK, REGISTRAR
    2 : a person who calculates insurance and annuity premiums, reserves, and dividends, and after taking
    a three hour nap every afternoon while doing that, wakes up and goes to the sports talk forum and starts
    spouting endless nonsense about how little Joe Morgan was the best hitter of the 1970's.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The topic of who was the "best hitter" for a particular period is an interesting thing to discuss. 'Tis a pity you can't discuss it intelligently. Since you agree with him, why don't you let Craig44 handle this for you and you can go back to putting Cheetos up your nose or whatever it is you do all day.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I forgot how the question was framed but I would take Joe Morgan over anybody else in the 1970’s. He was a great fielder, was constantly on base, hit for power and could steal a base. He made the Reds go. Loved him.

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    Player 1 Player 2

    .268 .366
    .256 .307
    .292 .318
    .290 .350
    .293 .364
    .327 .356
    .320 .331
    .288 .388
    .236 .333
    .250 .318

    O Titles 6 Batting titles

    You guys are smoking some serious Panama Red if you don't think player 2 is a better hitter. Stop peddling your Joe Morgan Cards, no one is buying !!!!! I don't care of OBP WAR or launch angles ...... just stop ....

    lol .............

    Have a good friday !!!!!

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:
    Player 1 Player 2

    .268 .366
    .256 .307
    .292 .318
    .290 .350
    .293 .364
    .327 .356
    .320 .331
    .288 .388
    .236 .333
    .250 .318

    O Titles 6 Batting titles

    You guys are smoking some serious Panama Red if you don't think player 2 is a better hitter. Stop peddling your Joe Morgan Cards, no one is buying !!!!! I don't care of OBP WAR or launch angles ...... just stop ....

    lol .............

    Have a good friday !!!!!

    One of the things that happens with sabermetrics (relevant because Joe Morgan is a sabermetritrician’s dream) is that some babies get thrown out with bath water.

    I mention this mainly because a guy being ‘hot’ or ‘in rhythm’ is often something you can ride in the real sport and yet more and more managers go with exclusively numbers to make lineups.

    Obviously, you can’t know what might happen but I feel like a good day at the plate automatically got you a start the next day; that’s less and less the case now.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,357 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Love it, we got another Brett vs Schmidt conflict and it’s escalating quickly 💥😂

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:
    Player 1 Player 2

    .268 .366
    .256 .307
    .292 .318
    .290 .350
    .293 .364
    .327 .356
    .320 .331
    .288 .388
    .236 .333
    .250 .318

    O Titles 6 Batting titles

    You guys are smoking some serious Panama Red if you don't think player 2 is a better hitter. Stop peddling your Joe Morgan Cards, no one is buying !!!!! I don't care of OBP WAR or launch angles ...... just stop ....

    lol .............

    Have a good friday !!!!!

    Morgan in a land slide. Not even close. A guy who hits a lot of singles is a great singles hitter.

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    i lost a lot of respect for some members in this forum ..... :D:D:D

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    Love it, we got another Brett vs Schmidt conflict and it’s escalating quickly 💥😂

    jajajajajaj

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    Love it, we got another Brett vs Schmidt conflict and it’s escalating quickly 💥😂

    George Brett was the better hitter, not even close.....

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dallasactuary said:

    @craig44 said:
    I believe the question was who was the best hitter of the 60ś and 70ś. I would still say Stargell has it over Morgan for the 70s

    OWar still includes a positional adjustment. so it is not a strait ¨hitting¨ stat. Morgan gets an advantage for playing 2b.
    While Morgan does have slightly more Rbat, he also 1300 more PA during the decade. this advantage also helps his OWar numbers.

    OWar also uses baserunning in the formulas. I do not consider baserunning a ¨hitting¨ skill. this also gives Morgan an advantage.

    The problem with using WPA is that it is dependent on how many ¨clutch¨ opportunities a player has. ¨it doesnt tell you how well a player performs, it tells you how important their performance was.¨
    Using WPA as a player comparison is like choosing Terry Pendelton over Bonds in the 91 MVP because writers viewed Pendelton as ¨Clutchier¨. Bonds was the better player, but Pendelton was put in more important situations. as Morgan was a member of the machine, it seems as though he would have been in more important situations over the decade than Stargell. using WPA is similar to using RBI as a metric. it is situational and not even across the board.

    Morgan is being given credit for position, baserunning and situation. I still say Stargell was better in the 70s

    Part of being the best hitter for a long period of time is playing for that long period of time. You are using the fact that Morgan was more durable than Stargell as evidence that Stargell was better, and I think that's just wrong. If we are ignoring total contributions (including all the zeros for missed games) and just looking at averages for the games that were played then Schmidt was probably the best hitter of the 1970's, even though he missed several years entirely. Morgan's contributions on offense exceeded those of Stargell for the decade of the 1970's. If you are defining "best hitter" differently than that, then maybe we're both right.

    All of your points are well taken with regard to the individual measurements you discussed, but that's why I listed all of them. You can nitpick OWar, Rbat and WPA individually, but claiming victory while losing all three is unlikely. In any event, Offensive Win Shares don't have any positional adjustment, and Morgan's lead there is about the same as it is in WPA. This tells me that the hypothetical problems with WPA don't apply in this specific case. And even throwing out OWar and Rbat, we still have Morgan winning two important cumulative measures and Stargell none. What is it that Stargell wins (cumulatively) that is better evidence than Win Shares and WPA? Or, again, are you defining "best" other than cumulatively? If the latter, how sure are you that Stargell was better than Schmidt, or Dick Allen?

    You've got Darin agreeing with you. That's a more reliable indicator that you've missed something than any stat could ever be.

    I think both players have a large enough body of work in the decade to have a fair comparison, but the metrics you quoted are really advanced counting stats of a sort. You could almost look at this comparison as somewhat similar to a Koufax vs Sutton comparison. Morgan did compile more OWar, WPA, Batter runs etc, but he did it over 1300 more PA. Would you consider Sutton a better strikeout pitcher than Koufax because he recorded more strikeouts? Or course not. He just had twice as many innings to do it. We have enough of a body of work for koufax to determine that he was a better strikeout artist than sutton, he just didn't pitch as long. one could make the same exercise with Cobb and rose and many other players. Similarly, we have a big enough body of work for stargell in the 70's.

    Now, I am only considering what both players did as hitters, ie, in the batters box. I am not using total offensive production (baserunning) as the conversation had moved toward the greatest hitter of the 70's. I consider baserunning a different skill set from hitting. That is why I discounted Owar a long with the positional adjustment.

    WPA is far to situationally dependent to be a good comparison tool. somewhat like using RBI

    I just be honest, I am not nearly as versed in win shares as most other metrics. I have not read James book so I really can't comment too much as to that.

    I also have not really looked too deeply into Schmidt of Allen as it pertains to this discussion. I am sure Allen wouldn't have a large enough body of work to compare with the others though.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    @perkdog said:
    Love it, we got another Brett vs Schmidt conflict and it’s escalating quickly 💥😂

    George Brett was the better hitter, not even close.....

    Why doesn't this surprise me.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Player 1 Player 2

    0.293 0.314
    0.238 0.289
    0.270 0.282
    0.253 0.271
    0.280 0.300
    0.283 0.305
    0.234 0.284
    0.275 0.289
    0.260 0.252
    0.276 0.321

    You guys are smoking some serious Panama Red if you don't think player 2 is a better hitter. Stop peddling your Johnny Bench cards, no one is buying !!!!! I don't care of OBP WAR or launch angles ...... just stop .... Dave Cash was better!!!!!

    lol .............

    Have a good friday !!!!!

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019 5:24PM

    We already know the BA.

    Let's take a look at some other hitting numbers and factors;

    1970 Carew played in 51 games and had 100 Total bases Morgan played in 144 games had 217 TB. Carew better for 51 games, Morgan for 93 games.
    1970 Morgan

    1971Morgan has higher OPS and more TB.
    1971 Morgan

    1972 Morgan has MUCH higher OPS and more TB.
    1972 Morgan

    1973 Morgan has higher OPS and more TB.
    1973 Morgan

    1974 First year Carew really challenges. Numbers are close, Morgan scored 21 more runs with a slightly lower OB%.
    1974 Morgan but very close.

    1975 Another close year. Morgan scores more runs and has a higher OB% wins MVP, Carew actually hits a few HR.
    1975 Morgan but very close.

    1976 Morgan has MUCH higher OPS and 8 less TB, wins another MVP has a .576 SLG.
    1976 Morgan

    1977 Carew has Much higher OPS and many more TB. Carew wins MVP
    1977 Carew

    1978 Carew has higher OPS and many more TB.
    1978 Carew

    1979 Carew has higher OPS and a few less TB.
    1979 Carew

    Do we count BB here? Not really hitting the ball of course. To me, a walk to early in the order hitters IS as good as a single, or if not, VERY close. But no, it's not striking the ball with the bat, it is equal VALUE though. ;-) REMEMBER a lot of Carew's singles were bunts and flares into short left field, so they were not really any better than a BB.

    For the decade Morgan walked about 109 times a year to Carew's 59.

    HR was Morgan by a landslide 17 a year to 6.

    From 1970-76 Morgan was the better hitter, after that he faded, and Carew was better. The best you can do for Carew is throw out 1970, say 74 and 75are too close to call, and then Joe still wins 4-3.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dallas doesn't even understand the question. The question was best hitter.
    Once a hitter gets on base, he becomes a runner. Dallas still has him down as a hitter at that point.

    At least I comprehend the question and can differentiate between a hitter and a runner.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    Dallas doesn't even understand the question. The question was best hitter.
    Once a hitter gets on base, he becomes a runner. Dallas still has him down as a hitter at that point.

    At least I comprehend the question and can differentiate between a hitter and a runner.

    Oh, this sounds like fun. List the things someone doesn't comprehend. Let me do you:

    Baseball
    Spelling
    Arithmetic
    Why Cheetos won't come out the other nostril

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dallasactuary said:

    @Darin said:

    Why Cheetos won't come out the other nostril

    In my case its because of a deviated septum

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    Now calculating insurance and annuity premiums and falling asleep at work, that's where Dallas has me beat.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion.

    This made me laugh.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    We already know the BA.

    Let's take a look at some other hitting numbers and factors;

    1970 Carew played in 51 games and had 100 Total bases Morgan played in 144 games had 217 TB. Carew better for 51 games, Morgan for 93 games.
    1970 Morgan

    1971Morgan has higher OPS and more TB.
    1971 Morgan

    1972 Morgan has MUCH higher OPS and more TB.
    1972 Morgan

    1973 Morgan has higher OPS and more TB.
    1973 Morgan

    1974 First year Carew really challenges. Numbers are close, Morgan scored 21 more runs with a slightly lower OB%.
    1974 Morgan but very close.

    1975 Another close year. Morgan scores more runs and has a higher OB% wins MVP, Carew actually hits a few HR.
    1975 Morgan but very close.

    1976 Morgan has MUCH higher OPS and 8 less TB, wins another MVP has a .576 SLG.
    1976 Morgan

    1977 Carew has Much higher OPS and many more TB. Carew wins MVP
    1977 Carew

    1978 Carew has higher OPS and many more TB.
    1978 Carew

    1979 Carew has higher OPS and a few less TB.
    1979 Carew

    Do we count BB here? Not really hitting the ball of course. To me, a walk to early in the order hitters IS as good as a single, or if not, VERY close. But no, it's not striking the ball with the bat, it is equal VALUE though. ;-) REMEMBER a lot of Carew's singles were bunts and flares into short left field, so they were not really any better than a BB.

    For the decade Morgan walked about 109 times a year to Carew's 59.

    HR was Morgan by a landslide 17 a year to 6.

    From 1970-76 Morgan was the better hitter, after that he faded, and Carew was better. The best you can do for Carew is throw out 1970, say 74 and 75are too close to call, and then Joe still wins 4-3.

    more total bases ? LMAO

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019 10:02PM

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    You will need to dethrone the “raining” forum champ Dimeman before I’m convinced

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    more total bases ? LMAO

    It's already obvious that you prefer a guy who would bat .330 for 50 games with all singles than a guy who hit .329 over 150 games with 25 home runs.

    You would probably pick a guy who hit .300 and had only 10 AB for the year over a guy who had 600 Ab and batted .299.

    To you a single is as good as a home run, so who cares about those extra bases?

    That's why I led off the post with "we already know the BA"

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2019 12:26AM

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    Brags about spelling, misspells literally the first word in the post. :)

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    Brags about spelling, misspells literally the first word in the post. :)

    Yeah but who has the bigger..........biceps?

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    more total bases ? LMAO

    It's already obvious that you prefer a guy who would bat .330 for 50 games with all singles than a guy who hit .329 over 150 games with 25 home runs.

    You would probably pick a guy who hit .300 and had only 10 AB for the year over a guy who had 600 Ab and batted .299.

    To you a single is as good as a home run, so who cares about those extra bases?

    That's why I led off the post with "we already know the BA"

    .329 ? Your guy batted over .300 only 2 times in the ten years we are talking about..... !!! LMAO

    Flirting with the mendoza line, but tell me how he is a better hitter because his mom fed him more rice and beans...

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    more total bases ? LMAO

    It's already obvious that you prefer a guy who would bat .330 for 50 games with all singles than a guy who hit .329 over 150 games with 25 home runs.

    You would probably pick a guy who hit .300 and had only 10 AB for the year over a guy who had 600 Ab and batted .299.

    To you a single is as good as a home run, so who cares about those extra bases?

    That's why I led off the post with "we already know the BA"

    with ten at bats he would not be eligible for 6 batting titles.... in the decade

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    more total bases ? LMAO

    It's already obvious that you prefer a guy who would bat .330 for 50 games with all singles than a guy who hit .329 over 150 games with 25 home runs.

    You would probably pick a guy who hit .300 and had only 10 AB for the year over a guy who had 600 Ab and batted .299.

    To you a single is as good as a home run, so who cares about those extra bases?

    That's why I led off the post with "we already know the BA"

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Taking the 9 year period from 1971-79 (Carew only played in 51 games in 1970)

    Rod Carew .407 OB% Joe Morgan .406

    Joe Morgan SLG% .461 Rod Carew .449

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2019 2:32PM

    Yes Morgan is a better hitter (as he inhales Panama Red)

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

    Are you crazy? Surely you must be joking when you say carew was a better hitter than allen in 72. It's not even close. I don't think carew beats allen in any metric that matters that year.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

    Are you crazy? Surely you must be joking when you say carew was a better hitter than allen in 72. It's not even close. I don't think carew beats allen in any metric that matters that year.

    the batting average metric (inhales the Panama Red y'all are smoking)

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I said any metric that matters.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    a single is NEVER better than a homerun, we are talking about best hitter.....not who can hit it the farthest....

    Seems to me the guy who can hit the ball the farthest and gets more "better" hits should make up for a guy who gets more "not as good" hits.

    You keep bringing up batting titles, and those are nice, but Carew got on base at almost the exact same rate as Morgan and Morgan had a lot higher SLG.

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

    The attorney appears to be in over his head here, LOL..



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    Brags about spelling, misspells literally the first word in the post. :)

    Same thing Dallas got on me about, not a misspelling but perhaps lacking an apostrophe in the right place.
    Which of course is not the same as misspelling a word.
    Trust me, the game is afoot. All of you who post here will misspell a word before I will.
    And you're (you are) welcome to go back and try to find a word I actually did misspell.
    I'm thinking you'll (you will) have to go back a fair period of time to find one.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:

    @Tabe said:

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    Brags about spelling, misspells literally the first word in the post. :)

    Same thing Dallas got on me about, not a misspelling but perhaps lacking an apostrophe in the right place.
    Which of course is not the same as misspelling a word.
    Trust me, the game is afoot. All of you who post here will misspell a word before I will.
    And you're (you are) welcome to go back and try to find a word I actually did misspell.
    I'm thinking you'll (you will) have to go back a fair period of time to find one.

    Since you brought it up you spelled Witten wrong. But I let it go o:):D

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mark,

    Justacommeman Posts: 18,558 ✭✭✭✭✭ April 14, 2019 1:41PM
    And the bettter with the 85K bet? The smartest guy in the room

    bettor- one who bets.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mark- two post's in a row.

    Justacommeman Posts: 18,558 ✭✭✭✭✭ April 14, 2019 1:46PM
    Tiger ain’t done yet and neither I’m I :D

    I'm hoping no explanation needed on your mistake above.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. Awesome spelling thread.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:
    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

    The moment when everyone finally had to accept that lawyer05 knows nothing about baseball.

    Allen's 1972 season was epic; probably the best hitting season of the decade. There may be a few folks here from Chicago, or diehard baseball fans old enough to remember 1972, but my guess is that most of you would be hard pressed to name a single other position player on that team, or a pitcher other than Wilbur Wood. Overall, the Sox hit 7% worse than league average, and pitched only 2% better than league average. And yet they finished twenty games over .500 and in second place to the dynastic A's.

    Allen's OPS+ of 199 was the highest of the decade, but with men on base it ballooned to 245; with the bases loaded it was 341. As amazing as his stats were that year, I don't think they even begin to do justice to the impact Allen had. Replace Allen with a league average hitter and the Sox in all likelihood finish below .500, or 10+ games worse than they actually did. It was one of a small handful of modern seasons that can be called Ruthian.

    And consider the A's team that held off the Sox down the stretch to win the West by 5.5 games. That team had 3 HOFers in key roles (plus Cepeda who barely played), and several others (Campy, Bando, Tenace, Matty Alou, Holtzman, Blue) who got HOF votes.

    The White Sox had not a single position player, other than Allen, who got a single HOF when they retired, nor any that deserved to get one. They had Goose Gossage in the bullpen, but he was a rookie and he was godawful in 1972. The only other man on the team to get any HOF votes was Wood. On paper, The A's should win the West by 10-15 games, easily, and winning by 20 games wouldn't have sounded unreasonable.

    And lest it go unnoticed or unsaid, the other thing the Sox did that year was beat the Twins - with 3 HOFers in key roles plus 2 HOF vote-getters - by 10 games. The degree to which Allen kicked Carew's ass that year can not be overstated.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The thread in which dallasactuary got a grown man to brag about his ability to spell.

    What else would y'all like me to make him do? I'm taking requests.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @darin :D:#

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    Wow. Awesome spelling thread.

    I didn't start it. But when Dallas loses an argument he goes for the personal attack.
    Thinking Joe Morgan was the best hitter of the 70's. Haha. He is good for some entertainment value.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    I didn't start it. But when Dallas loses an argument he goes for the personal attack.
    Thinking Joe Morgan was the best hitter of the 70's. Haha. He is good for some entertainment value.

    Yes, I clearly lost the argument when you played the "6th grade spelling champ" card.

    You honestly don't understand how many people in this thread are laughing at you, or why, do you?

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lawyer05 said:

    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

    I for one simply refuse to believe you. NO ONE believes this NO ONE.> @dallasactuary said:

    @lawyer05 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:
    I'll ask you once more, was Carew a "better" hitter in 1972 than Dick Allen? Carew won the batting title.

    yes

    The moment when everyone finally had to accept that lawyer05 knows nothing about baseball.

    Allen's 1972 season was epic; probably the best hitting season of the decade. There may be a few folks here from Chicago, or diehard baseball fans old enough to remember 1972, but my guess is that most of you would be hard pressed to name a single other position player on that team, or a pitcher other than Wilbur Wood. Overall, the Sox hit 7% worse than league average, and pitched only 2% better than league average. And yet they finished twenty games over .500 and in second place to the dynastic A's.

    Allen's OPS+ of 199 was the highest of the decade, but with men on base it ballooned to 245; with the bases loaded it was 341. As amazing as his stats were that year, I don't think they even begin to do justice to the impact Allen had. Replace Allen with a league average hitter and the Sox in all likelihood finish below .500, or 10+ games worse than they actually did. It was one of a small handful of modern seasons that can be called Ruthian.

    And consider the A's team that held off the Sox down the stretch to win the West by 5.5 games. That team had 3 HOFers in key roles (plus Cepeda who barely played), and several others (Campy, Bando, Tenace, Matty Alou, Holtzman, Blue) who got HOF votes.

    The White Sox had not a single position player, other than Allen, who got a single HOF when they retired, nor any that deserved to get one. They had Goose Gossage in the bullpen, but he was a rookie and he was godawful in 1972. The only other man on the team to get any HOF votes was Wood. On paper, The A's should win the West by 10-15 games, easily, and winning by 20 games wouldn't have sounded unreasonable.

    And lest it go unnoticed or unsaid, the other thing the Sox did that year was beat the Twins - with 3 HOFers in key roles plus 2 HOF vote-getters - by 10 games. The degree to which Allen kicked Carew's ass that year can not be overstated.

    I have a baseball book around here somewhere; "Cult Baseball Players : The Greats, the Flakes, the Weird, and the Wonderful" in it Jim Kaat talks about Dick Allen. Says he was a truly great hitter.

    Book is a GREAT read!!!

    The Twins had pretty good pitching that year, but Killebrew was at the end, Oliva was hurt and the "greatest hitter" of the 1970's couldn't manage even 1 HR. He out hit Killebrew by 87 percentage points and only scored 8 more runs. Killebrew could barely run at this point.

    Carew=over rated.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    The Twins had pretty good pitching that year, but Killebrew was at the end, ....

    Killebrew was indeed a shadow of his former self in 1972, but he was still the best hitter on the Twins that year.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:

    @Tabe said:

    @Darin said:
    Its the spelling comment that gets to me. I was a 6th grade spelling champion. Sure, I've lost
    a little game since then, but I can still bring it when I have to.
    Amethyst, Porcupine, Unilateral, Embellish, Disingenuous, Antebellum, Obelisk, Nomenclature(actually got this one wrong but spellcheck had my back).
    LIke I say, I would put my skills at spelling up against anyone on this board,

    Brags about spelling, misspells literally the first word in the post. :)

    Same thing Dallas got on me about, not a misspelling but perhaps lacking an apostrophe in the right place.
    Which of course is not the same as misspelling a word.
    Trust me, the game is afoot. All of you who post here will misspell a word before I will.
    And you're (you are) welcome to go back and try to find a word I actually did misspell.
    I'm thinking you'll (you will) have to go back a fair period of time to find one.

    The writing world is divided on the topic of whether that was a spelling error or one of grammar. Since there is no unity on this issue, I will concede. Still, a 6th grade spelling champion should know the proper placement of the apostrophe. :)

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:
    The writing world is divided on the topic of whether that was a spelling error or one of grammar. Since there is no unity on this issue, I will concede. Still, a 6th grade spelling champion should know the proper placement of the apostrophe. :)

    I can picture Darin in sixth grade, standing at the front of the room, and being asked to spell "it's".

    "Use it in a sentence", Darin requests.

    "It's the spelling comment that gets to me" the teacher responds.

    With the victory he will remember as long as he lives in sight, Darin proclaims "I T S".

    "I'm sorry, Darin, that's incorrect; you forgot the apostrophe."

    "Stop spouting nonsense, that's not a spelling mistake."

    "Go to the principal's office right now!"

    "You started it."

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019 5:58AM

    @dallasactuary said:

    @JoeBanzai said:
    The Twins had pretty good pitching that year, but Killebrew was at the end, ....

    Killebrew was indeed a shadow of his former self in 1972, but he was still the best hitter on the Twins that year.

    His last good year. Too bad Calvin Griffith was in such a hurry to replace him. Killebrew should have been given a shot at 600 HRs.

    20 years later they found a good 1st baseman.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Sign In or Register to comment.