Spiel, Marke Tokens, Kettle Tokens. Gaming Tokens and Gold Rush Tokens information inside

coinsarefun

@carabonnair said:

Qur-9, but seems to be a zinc alloy, rather than steel (it is not attracted to a magnet), uniface.
This one is after 1916, since it imitates the flying eagle on the back of the quarter (and same diameter). I didn't know it was listed in Rulau's American Game Counter list (TAMS Journal 1972) until I looked it up last night. On the Newman Numismatic Portal https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/525692
![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/ox/h

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I may have some information for you soon. I’m still recovering from whatever this horrible sinus infection./stomache flue. I’ll post soon.

carabonnair

@coinsarefun said:

I may have some information for you soon. I’m still recovering from whatever this horrible sinus infection./stomache flue. I’ll post soon.

Thanks - get well soon.

ZoidMeister

Looking for information on this one . . . . .

Z
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coinsarefun

@ZoidMeister said:
Looking for information on this one . . . . .

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Im not close my book to show info. But its said to be made for jewelry
I’m fairly certain yours is like mine.

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coinsarefun

@coinsarefun said:

@carabonnair said:

Qur-9, but seems to be a zinc alloy, rather than steel (it is not attracted to a magnet), uniface.
This one is after 1916, since it imitates the flying eagle on the back of the quarter (and same diameter). I didn't know it was listed in Rulau's American Game Counter list (TAMS Journal 1972) until I looked it up last night. On the Newman Numismatic Portal https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/525692

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I may have some information for you soon. I’m still recovering from whatever this horrible sinus infection./stomache flue. I’ll post soon.

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I looked through both of my books and this is not in it. Sorry I can't tell you anything other than what you found so far.

coinsarefun

I've been meaning to post a few I picked up recently.

1850’s BRONZE REPUBLICA ARGENTINA LIB. UNITED STATES $10D 27mm. NGC MS 64
Super nice luster and pl fields
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This is the first I've collected or seen for that matter that I'm fairly certain is not a newer strike.
It's so hard that there is not enough written out there, even with several known publications by Fauver.

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1850’s BRASS REPUBLICA ARGENTINA LIB. UNITED STATES $10D 27mm RAW

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This 4th Argentina $10D I own is also brass. I bought this one because I thought it was the "counterfeit" ones
that are being produced, simply because it was so "shiny" looking. After studying and comparing it to the others it has the same obverse die crack as the last two I bought. The one brass that is raw and the copper that is graded.
Both posted above.
I am starting to think these are not necessarily counterfeit. However I'm thinking someone got ahold of or bought
the dies and struck them long ago.

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And, this is the first 2 1/2D I've come across. I don't think Ive even seen any at auction. Must be missing
it as it is known but also very rare.

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ZoidMeister

@coinsarefun said:

@ZoidMeister said:
Looking for information on this one . . . . .

Z
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Im not close my book to show info. But its said to be made for jewelry
I’m fairly certain yours is like mine.

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Very interesting piece as well. Yours has the COPY obliterated, but in a much more attractive manner.

I can still see the "Y" underlying the scratches in the one I picked up. I am getting more convinced that these are vintage pieces. Still looking for more info on them. If I find something, I'll post it here.

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coinsarefun

I wanted to post my newest pickup several weeks back.
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1856 Brass In Uniate Fortitudo City Hall New York NGC MS64DPL
This one reminds me so much of our patterns simply because of its deep toning colors
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1850's New York Theodor Bollenhagen & Co. NGC MS65
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This last one is not really in the gaming tokens area but since the company was into making all things for magic they use to use and alter the gaming tokens, which I thought was interesting. as they made their own.

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1879 New York Martinka & Co. NGC MS63

coinsarefun

I forgot to add this last one...its small but mighty. and I've not seen a New York City Hall mule with a Spiel Marke before.
19mm brass City Hall, New York. Spiel Marke NGC MS66

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coinsarefun

This was posted several month back, maybe a year. I finally sent it in to be graded.
18mm UNDATED GILT CHRISTO DUCE VERBO LUCE SPIEL MARKE. NGC MS 65

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CaptHenway

@ZoidMeister said:
Looking for information on this one . . . . .

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While I was at Coin World (1973-1978) we received a press release and a picture of one of these from some guy who said that he had copyrighted this Kellogg design (note the copyright symbol at the lower reverse), and that from then on Coin World and the Redbook and every other numismatic would have to pay him a royalty every time we printed any picture of a Kellogg $20, either an original or one of these copies which by the way he was going to be selling. They would be available loose or in bezels on chains. We laughed at him.

His stock must have been remaindered out to some crook as I have seen several of them over the years with the word COPY removed in some way.

coinsarefun

@CaptHenway said:

While I was at Coin World (1973-1978) we received a press release and a picture of one of these from some guy who said that he had copyrighted this Kellogg design (note the copyright symbol at the lower reverse), and that from then on Coin World and the Redbook and every other numismatic would have to pay him a royalty every time we printed any picture of a Kellogg $20, either an original or one of these copies which by the way he was going to be selling. They would be available loose or in bezels on chains. We laughed at him.

His stock must have been remaindered out to some crook as I have seen several of them over the years with the word COPY removed in some way.

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But, but.....he told me I would get all the residuals........geez..

ZoidMeister

@CaptHenway said:

@ZoidMeister said:
Looking for information on this one . . . . .

Z
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While I was at Coin World (1973-1978) we received a press release and a picture of one of these from some guy who said that he had copyrighted this Kellogg design (note the copyright symbol at the lower reverse), and that from then on Coin World and the Redbook and every other numismatic would have to pay him a royalty every time we printed any picture of a Kellogg $20, either an original or one of these copies which by the way he was going to be selling. They would be available loose or in bezels on chains. We laughed at him.

His stock must have been remaindered out to some crook as I have seen several of them over the years with the word COPY removed in some way.

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Well, that's a hail of a "provenance" fer this piece doncha know?

I'mma gonna have to write that down and record it for posterity.

I don't owe you a royalty fur the story, do I?

Z

ZoidMeister

@CaptHenway ,

I do very much appreciate your recounting of the history of this piece. It really adds to the "mystique" of it. Just when you think you've heard everything . . .

Like my Momma used to say, "It don't take all kinds, we've just GOT 'all kinds' . . . . some we could do without. "

Z

coinsarefun

I did pick up a few piece from Dennis and they are below

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And another New York City Hall Theodor Bollenhagen Merchant Trade Token.
I think this is my firth such one but look at that die clash going one......you can see the suns ry one her head on the obverse

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ZoidMeister

Not quite as "nice" as my "little sister" collects, but I had to pick up SOMETHING so she wouldn't disown me . . . . . .

I don't know a whole lot about this one, but I'm sure I'll get edjamacated. I need more books . . . . .

I probably need to take better photos too . . . .

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coinsarefun

Oh. Hhhh big brother @ZoidMeister you did very well, even if you didn’t know. You did awesome!
They are not super rare however, to find and nice almost unc if not low mintages state is very well.
There are a few different varieties, not many but I’ll post the page that explains them here later

coinsarefun

I did find an Argentina $5D and it’s rarer Than the regular one.
Thanks to a dealer friend of mine. It’s an Arg-2b Rarity 8.
But…….talk about spots and active verdigris. So I will soak it for a few years
and see how it turns out. This is the first time I’ve even seen one.
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ZoidMeister

Steph,

I've made some interesting observations on the 1854 Kellogg & Co. gaming counters I posted earlier.

It appears there were two different strikes / restrikes of these from the two different die pairs that I have observed.

The earlier strikes seem to be those with the word COPY obliterated on them. Your example, mine, and one other on TokenCatalog are all from this die pair.

On the obverse, the identification of the two different die pairs can be made from the size of the date and position of the head, the detail of the "stars", and the lettering in the headband.
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On the reverse the differences are much easier to see. On what appears to be the "newer" piece, the engraving of the eagle is smaller and more "cartoonish", the rays above the eagle are more prominent, and the "©" symbol is larger.

On the "older" strike with the COPY obliterated the eagle looks more stately, the rays are lighter, and the "©" symbol is much smaller.
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I thought you might like to see these differences.

I still don't know much about their date of creation or origin other than what @CaptHenway posted earlier. My haphazard research continues . . . . . .

Z

coinsarefun

That’s interesting @ZoidMeister i just got these books in today. I bought the first one years back but thought I better
start reading more…….holy cow there’s a ton of information.
It’s unfortunate but I think Benjamin Fauver will never get the notoriety he deserves. He collected thousands of these tokens
and catalogue them…….that’s mind boggling to me.

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Geez, forgot to add…. I’m going to see if they are listed

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ZoidMeister

Hey Sis,

I picked up a couple of intriguing pieces I ran across.

I'm also waiting for my copy of the first book you posted to come in so I can do my own "research."

I think you have a couple of these . . . . .

Z
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coinsarefun

@ZoidMeister These are very neat.....haven't seen these yet

coinsarefun

@coinsarefun said:
I did find an Argentina $5D and it’s rarer Than the regular one.
Thanks to a dealer friend of mine. It’s an Arg-2b Rarity 8.
But…….talk about spots and active verdigris. So I will soak it for a few years
and see how it turns out. This is the first time I’ve even seen one.
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I found ANOTHER $5D......when it rains it pours, I guess. This one is much better shape but not the rarer version.
But still super nice looking, small rim bump as most have. So this will complete my Argentinian set of US gaming tokens

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ZoidMeister

@coinsarefun said:

@coinsarefun said:
I did find an Argentina $5D and it’s rarer Than the regular one.
Thanks to a dealer friend of mine. It’s an Arg-2b Rarity 8.
But…….talk about spots and active verdigris. So I will soak it for a few years
and see how it turns out. This is the first time I’ve even seen one.
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I found ANOTHER $5D......when it rains it pours, I guess. This one is much better shape but not the rarer version.
But still super nice looking, small rim bump as most have. So this will complete my Argentinian set of US gaming tokens

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I should have a few more to run past you next week. They're more common English and German counters.

I'm wondering if that "L" beneath the eagle indicates Lauer?

Z

ZoidMeister

@coinsarefun

Steph,

The pieces I wanted to show you have arrived and I've got photos taken. I'm pretty happy with the condition of this first one. I know it's pretty common, but it's condition is fantastic methinks . . . . . .

Z
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ZoidMeister

Here are a couple others that "spoke to me" . . . . .
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coinsarefun

@ZoidMeister said:

@coinsarefun said:

@coinsarefun said:
I did find an Argentina $5D and it’s rarer Than the regular one.
Thanks to a dealer friend of mine. It’s an Arg-2b Rarity 8.
But…….talk about spots and active verdigris. So I will soak it for a few years
and see how it turns out. This is the first time I’ve even seen one.
.

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I found ANOTHER $5D......when it rains it pours, I guess. This one is much better shape but not the rarer version.
But still super nice looking, small rim bump as most have. So this will complete my Argentinian set of US gaming tokens

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I should have a few more to run past you next week. They're more common English and German counters.

I'm wondering if that "L" beneath the eagle indicates Lauer?

Z

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Where? I don’t see an L under my Eagle? I don’t think they know for sure who made them but it must be
Lauer

coinsarefun

The first one is in great shape and love the toning.

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@ZoidMeister said:
Here are a couple others that "spoke to me" . . . . .
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This second one is so tiny of love these. I'm going to be submitting one like this but much much later cracked up
die but yours appears to be better grade then mine........love these little things. It's amazing to see that these got so much use in gambling. Very few are truly Unc.
or mint state.

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coinsarefun

I thought yours was the same as mine but the reverses are different.

I wish I had a better example of the larger one as its pretty neat to see all 3 sizes.

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@ZoidMeister said:
Here are a couple others that "spoke to me" . . . . .
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ZoidMeister

@coinsarefun said:

I should have a few more to run past you next week. They're more common English and German counters.

I'm wondering if that "L" beneath the eagle indicates Lauer?

Z

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Where? I don’t see an L under my Eagle? I don’t think they know for sure who made them but it must be
Lauer

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I was talking about MY piece. See below . . . . .

The bird actually looks more like a dying duck than an eagle, but the seller called it an eagle, so there's that.

The "L" is circled in red.

Z
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coinsarefun

Oh…….sorry about your duck dying mid flight but yes I think that’s what the L stands for.
I’m not sure if I have this piece in my books. I’ll take a look.

Btw,I forgot to tell you………I love the lathe marks in your Hanover piece. I don’t know why but I
am attracted to those types.

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@ZoidMeister said:

@coinsarefun said:

I should have a few more to run past you next week. They're more common English and German counters.

I'm wondering if that "L" beneath the eagle indicates Lauer?

Z

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Where? I don’t see an L under my Eagle? I don’t think they know for sure who made them but it must be
Lauer

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I was talking about MY piece. See below . . . . .

The bird actually looks more like a dying duck than an eagle, but the seller called it an eagle, so there's that.

The "L" is circled in red.

Z
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ZoidMeister

@coinsarefun said:
Oh…….sorry about your duck dying mid flight but yes I think that’s what the L stands for.
I’m not sure if I have this piece in my books. I’ll take a look.

Btw,I forgot to tell you………I love the lathe marks in your Hanover piece. I don’t know why but I
am attracted to those types.

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Steph,

Last arrival from this week and for tonight.

I just have to make little sister proud.

This is the largest one I've found. It has a couple dark spots but otherwise I think it's condition is good.

Z
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ZoidMeister

ZoidMeister

I need better photos of this one.

Z
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Zoins

@coinsarefun said:
I did find an Argentina $5D and it’s rarer Than the regular one.
Thanks to a dealer friend of mine. It’s an Arg-2b Rarity 8.
But…….talk about spots and active verdigris. So I will soak it for a few years
and see how it turns out. This is the first time I’ve even seen one.

Wow! That is really rare! Congrats for picking it up

If you are going to soak it a few years, may be get a TrueView first so it's in CoinFacts, then soak it and resubmit?

Zoins

It seems I haven't posted one of my favorites in this thread.

Indian Head Cent Spiel Mark Token - by Ludwig Christian Lauer

I'm a fan of these tokens because they both show a US coin design and name the minter.

coinsarefun

@Zoins said:
It seems I haven't posted one of my favorites in this thread:

Indian Head Cent Spiel Mark Token - by Ludwig Christian Lauer

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That is a super nice Indian head. Most are crudely done this one is beautiful!

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I already have it soaking so I’ll see how it is after 6 months or so.

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Since I finished the Argentina set of course I had to make a wallpaper of them….lol

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Zoins

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:
It seems I haven't posted one of my favorites in this thread:

Indian Head Cent Spiel Mark Token - by Ludwig Christian Lauer

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That is a super nice Indian head. Most are crudely done this one is beautiful!

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I already have it soaking so I’ll see how it is after 6 months or so.

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Since I finished the Argentina set of course I had to make a wallpaper of them….lol

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Congrats on completing a beautiful set Stef!

The collage looks beautiful!

All you need is an AI algorithm to remove those NGC prongs!

coinsarefun

1830-1879 Imitation $10D by L. Chr. Lauer Imitation Gold US Liberty 10 Dollars 13mm.
This is so small it’s detail is amazing and it has a reeded edge.

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Just so you can get a feel for how small this is

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coinsarefun

I've had this one for several years now and may have even posted it before but thought to try and get better pic's and
attach information on it hear so I don't forget......lol

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According to TAMS
AMERICAN GAME COUNTERS
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by Russell Rulau and George J. Fuld

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ZoidMeister

Very cool 😎.

Z

@coinsarefun said:
I've had this one for several years now and may have even posted it before but thought to try and get better pic's and
attach information on it hear so I don't forget......lol

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According to TAMS
AMERICAN GAME COUNTERS
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by Russell Rulau and George J. Fuld

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coinsarefun

Now I have a 2 1/2 gold imitation by Laurer.
It would make for a spectacular minute type set with gold but I think he’s getting to
popular and prices are starting to go up where it’s not feasible.

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coinsarefun

Now, to me this is super interesting ! I have not researched to find the year that Lauer created this Spiel but looking close it echoes the
1879 New York Martinka & Co. NGC MS63 merchant token I bought a while back

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This is the Spiel I picked up recently
Spiel Marke Counter Token Cable Car/ mundus vult decipi discipiatur
Phrase, means "The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived.
I am aware and did read that this shop once was owned by Houdi and he had a double
Obverse made of this token……..Martinka token ….I assume this token is put out by the merchant. Which was him at one time.

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For giggles I photoshop each coin to show the size differences, simply because on or the other
came out blurry.

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Jzyskowski1

Just got this medal. I am doing a medal series . Various types and dates.

Someone found this and shared it 😉

Jzyskowski1

Others have suggested it’s a retirement metal. 25 years. Just seems odd being in the middle of WW2 and not the best location in Europe.
The search continues 👍🏼

coinsarefun

I have not see this before, keep us posted as to what you find out

Jzyskowski1

Not sure where these belong but I’m collecting them too 😉( it’s a new addition)

coinsarefun

Another new and super interesting find.
This is a cast copy of 22mm 1849-DATED BRASS GOLD MINER COUNTER.
The real one is mine also. I’ve never seen another cast/counterfeit of this particular gaming token.

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Jzyskowski1

It showed up today and is truly magnificent ! 😉

Jzyskowski1

Ah ha ! A clue is revealed. This guy did a lot of work 👍🏼