Take a look at this clump
crazyhounddog
Posts: 13,979 ✭✭✭✭✭
A new high tech material has been born. This clump is a combination of plastic coin flips and paper envelopes fused together by extreme heat. Yep they were in my safe in a cigar box. The cigar box nor any other paper items burned in this intense fire but did get desiderated . I would just LOVE to remove these coins from this entombed mess but it's impenetrable. It has been soaking in acetone for about a week but it's a no go. I bought some 18 gage diagonal cutters that work but I can only get so close to the coins without damaging them as you can imagine. I have a bunch just like this one including my entire Dan Carr collection.
I figured I'd show you all this cause it is pretty interesting and frustrating too.
Here's some pics.
Happy hunting, Joe
Comments
Wow, that's a real mess. Have no clue how to help. No advice.
Be well,
bob
Would you happen to know the type of plastic? Some plastics may be resistant to acetone but there might be other potential solvents that can help.
Joe - unless this plastic junk is fused to the coins you should be able to break it away from the coin.
I wouldn't know where to begin, sorry.
Heat would soften it but then you'd have to worry about AT.
Wow... Were they toned like that beforehand?
I wonder if you put them in the freezer for a few hours and then snip them if they would shatter away from the coin?
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I should have read more carefully:
Check out the chart. NaOH might work (active ingredient of MS70) is one of them that mylar doesn't have much resistance too. I wouldn't want to get it on the coin, but with controlled manipulation, it might allow you to get it into a more manageable clunk:
http://stenbacka.swg.kotisivustot.fi/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/07/mylar_a_kemialliset_ominaisuudet.pdf
Yes they were toned beforehand.
All Mylar
That's some great information but I don't any acid laying around and I'd be afraid of the stuff. I'm a chicken butt.
I don't blame you for being cautious. Maybe you could reach out to PCGS/NCS and see if they would cut you a bulk deal in removing the excess plastic. I'm sure they have seen this type of thing before.
LN2 perhaps?
The shards could abrade the coin upon removal.
Send all your coins in a box with beef jerky to @Justacommeman and his dog she will remove all the acrylic in a few seconds
I have got some lose from some of the other clumps but this one and the other are really in there. I know for sure I have some nice coins in these too. Most were about to be sent in for grading.
A hair dryer may be hot enough to soften the plastic without causing too much heat or promoting more toning.
You could also try a heat gun from Harbor Freight but it could be too hot.
Amazing! Gotta give the mint some credit for the durability and quality of their coins. I'm happy that you have the resolve to plug away trying to salvage your prized possessions. Most would have given up in despair. You are truly a strong individual and you can depend on your friends here to keep rooting for you.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Just a thought but since heat caused this could you somehow reheat enough to remove them gently? Maybe a heat gun. As far as AT if they didn't change from the intense heat of the fire would they change much if you used a heat gun or worse propane torch just to loosen the grip of the resin?
A Dremel tool goes through acrylic like butter... I've used a Dremel instead of a router many times.
PCGS has already done so much for me I couldn't be more grateful. They are all the greatest people and I owe them so much. They have taken my melted collection to fix and has been working with me to make this a gift to be remembered for the rest of my life. All of you here has made this horrible event a lot better for my family and I mean it when I say I love you all. Everyday bring new challenges but we are up for it. We are a tough clan.
Much love to you all
Joe and Family
Try getting Insider 2 information.
I recommend letting him see those coins in hand.
I am also afraid to use anymore heat. Maybe as a last resort I might try it. Many coin underneath these so cutting into it blindly is something I'm not up for. But thank you for the ideas my brother.
Maybe an icepick and just go crazy
I would find the least valuable coin and try boiling it in hot water to see if it softens the plastic so it can be removed.
If it does I would then rinse with water and then soak in the acetone and blow dry with a hair dryer.
Did a quick search and found this
https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_can_you_dissolve_Polyethylene_terephthalate_Is_there_any_solvent_which_can_easily_dissolve_the_PET
Looks like mylar(PET) is very chemically resistant which is why you are having trouble getting the coins out with acetone. It also has a melting temperature of around 500F so I don't think you will get anywhere trying to melt it
Collector, occasional seller
Good luck with everything, Joe!!!
U.S. Type Set
You might need to brush up on your organic chemistry for this one
Same forum: https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_do_you_dissolve_polyethyelene_terephthalate_PET
Collector, occasional seller
Don't know if it would work, but have you tried freezing the clumps?
It a project and is ongoing. I will more than like give a few of these ideas here a try.
Thanks a bunch
That is certainly a challenge.... Are you friends with anyone at one of the California Universities? Perhaps their chemical department could provide some help.... Cheers, RickO
Think about thermal cycling. Experiment with a small piece first. Wear Person Protective Equipment ( safety goggles, thick gloves and lab coat or coveralls)
Liquid nitrogen would be best, or dry ice slurry, for a long time, followed by immersion in boiling water. The plastic may shatter.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Thanks I might give some of these ideas a try.
Send that to me, I bet I could get those out.
I was actually thinking the same thing. I just found my wine opening system in her bed with her all chewed up. It was next to a pile of bones. None appeared to be human. She snatched it from on top of the micro wave. She is literally like the Beast on Sandlot. She is on time out now but is available to Joe 24/7. Heck I’ll ship Cam to Joe. He can keep her.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I agree with ricko, contact one of the local universities and soeak with a chemistry and physics professor about any ideas they to safely remove the mylar without damaging the coins. Of course, if mylar somehow bonds with metal then not likely nothing would work. Best of luck, brother. I remember the IHC, beauty of a coin.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Heat got you into this mess without damaging the toning or coin, heat can get you out of the mess. Just be very careful!
If acetone didn't work, then you are dealing with a type of plastic that may need a stronger organic solvent to dissolve. First of all... be careful..... wear gloves (a respirator if you have one) and work in a well ventilated area (preferably outdoors). Toluene or other cyclic hydrocarbons in that group might give better results. As a last ditch effort... Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) could also work. Please bear in mind, these are not run-of-the-mill solvents and I'm not certain what the effect on your coins will be... caveat emptor!! ...and best of luck!
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When you look closely at the embedded coin does it appear that the melted plastic has adhered to the surface of the coin, or does it appear that the melted plastic is simply laying on/sitting on the surface of the coin?
If the latter, it would seem to me that if (for example the embedded IHC and Jefferson) the portion of the melted plastic that covers the perimeter of one side of the coin (for example the reverse of the IHC and the obverse of the Jefferson) could be removed the coin could be popped out of the remaining portion of the melted plastic.
Sort of like removing a coin from a Whitman, Dansco or LOC slide Album. You remove the slide covering the obverse and you can free the coin by pushing on the reverse side.
Of course, the above would only work if you have only a single layer of coins (for example one coin that was in a single flip that melted, instead of a stack of ten coins each in a separate flip where all ten flips melted resulting in a tower of ten coins surrounded by the mass of ten layers of melted flips).
If treatment by heat, cold and/or chemicals does not do the trick, then perhaps consult with a jewelsmith, locksmith or one who makes custom eyeglasses to see what, if anything he or she can recommend. The cutting, polishing and other tools use by these craftsmen allow for work to be done on a micro scale.
To me the removal of most of the melted plastic that is away from the surfaces of each embedded coin would be the goal of any mechanical fix. Doing this on a micro level would allow for the removal of all but a thin layer of melted plastic. Once most of the melted plastic is removed, whatever thin layer remains around each coin can be dealt with one coin at a time.
By analogy, I suspect that some collectors who have a 1960's proof set embedded in a block of Lucite have tried to remove the coins by various methods, including slicing the Lucite block into smaller, smaller and smaller pieces to the point where five single coins remain that are surrounded by a small quantity of Lucite. Once at that point perhaps a combination of heat, cold or chemicals can be employed to remove the remaining Lucite and free the embedded coins.
Good luck Joe.
Going through your "coin reclamation project" will give you an additional knowledge base in the hobby that will serve you (and others you share the information with) well in the future.
I don’t think solvents will likely help here. Mylar is pretty tough and anything that might react with it might damage the coin. Be cautious regarding noxious fumes with any sort of chemical reaction.
I don't know about freezing but I don’t think high heat will help. Low heat will probably soften the plastic some.
I might consider seeking out a precision laser cutter to help cut through that mess.
I have no idea where you might find such a tool though.
Good luck!
Have you considered selling the lump?
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Maybe with a fine tip soldering iron you can get somewhere.
Collector, occasional seller
Well, all that I can say is good luck.
Sad to see your troubles.
BHNC #203
So I'm thinking a dip in liquid nitrogen and then the big shatter between thick towels.
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Heat up a blade and cut into smaller more manageable pieces. This should get around heat causing more AT issue.
When the coins were hot inside the safe, it was probably a fairly low oxygen environment.
If you heat them up again in the open air, there will be more oxygen in contact with them and the toning could change undesirably.
I've tried freezing plastic to release entombed coins before and I personally didn't have much luck with that (but it wasn't mylar that I was dealing with).
What did work for me was careful cutting, chipping, and prying. As previously mentioned, a "Dremel" (or similar) tool could be of use, but it can be easy to slip with any rotary power tool. A small hand-held hacksaw blade and a pocket knife might be the best option.
PS:
I noted your statement about the "Carr" collection. I would be willing to conserve those pieces for you, if necessary.
I sure appreciate that.
Thank you