Admittedly, I did not read every single suggestion above. All are trying to help.
I did read some of the internet links to pages that suggest solvents to dissolve PET. Even as a chemical engineer, I would not attempt to use any of those methods at home. Most of those chemicals are nasty, toxic, and need proper ventilation hoods and safety equipment. This is a classic case of "do not try this at home".
On the other hand, the first thing that came to my mind was using thermocycling to loosen (hopefully) the coin from the grasp of the polymer. Liquid nitrogen is not normally available to the general public, but dry ice is. (I can get it at my local supermarket of all places!)
I also like the diagonal cutter but I'd "aim" the point of the cutter toward the coin. This might cause a crack up to the coin and free it (much like cracking a coin out of a slab). This might not be a good strategy if the lump is not brittle. Edge nippers might be a better tool.
Perhaps a combination of techniques might work. Cool down the lump with dry ice in hopes the lump turns brittle enough for the diagonal cutter to be more effective.
Good luck, let us know what works.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
I would also like to thank @wildidea for sending me some Dan Carr replacements after the fire. It was a very generous gift so I’d like to mention this here.
Thank you my coin brother ❤️
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I’ll for sure keep you all posted. I’m hoping to employ some hydraulic to this problem. Maybe on edge in a press to losin it up. Or to twist it some.
Thanks a bunch for all of these great suggestions and I will for sure keep you posted on the results. Hey now! If your in the area come on up and we’ll make a party out of it😉
Happy hunting, Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I WOULD NOT TOUCH THE LUMP. ANYTHING, ANYTHING YOU TRY MIGHT DAMAGE THE COINS. SEND IN TO NCS AND LET THEM USE THEIR DECADES OF EXPERIENCE TO DO THE REMOVAL.
Hi Joe. Good meeting you at Fun.
You need the plastic to crack in one direction without getting any tools close to the coins. You could drill tiny holes to control the direction of the crack. Just a thought.
Have any dentist friends? A high speed handpiece is MUCH easier to control than a dremel. The dental handpiece doesn’t walk or jump like a dremel. I’m a veterinarian and have used both tools. I think the high speed handpiece with a cutting bur would work great
If you have a dermatology friend, I bet they have a Liquid nitrogen gun in their office. That way, the sprays can be directed exactly where you want them.
@erwindoc said:
If you have a dermatology friend, I bet they have a Liquid nitrogen gun in their office. That way, the sprays can be directed exactly where you want them.
Don't they have DIY over the counter wart/mole removal kits to freeze off tissue? If so, I wonder if these could be used if it came down to it.
@crazyhounddog said:
I would also like to thank @wildidea for sending me some Dan Carr replacements after the fire. It was a very generous gift so I’d like to mention this here.
Thank you my coin brother ❤️
I’ll speak up and say it wasn’t me, someone else, we had a chat on a PM about it.
I think there are some good suggestions here. The thought of using different chemicals to dissolve the Mylar makes be a bit concerned for the coins, particularly copper. I think that heat will be your friend here for pulling things apart. The freezing cold to break it apart is also interesting. I would be real cautious about using a press, that force might transverse through the Mylar shell to the coin causing unwanted force.
Good luck, please let us know what worked... and also what did not work.
My son got some coins cheap due to be encased in various plastics like Lucite that could not be removed. We tried boiling, freezing, etc. Finally, I got some LN2, soaked them for a bit, pulled them out with tongs, and put them in a vise, and slowly tightened the vise. The plastic had become brittle, and between clamping it down, and the plastic expanding as it warmed, all of them shattered. The only hard part was putting some soft cloths under the jaws in case the coins dropped.
Also, for $1 a coin, he bought like 200 old Roman coins, most all heavily encrusted. We finally hit on putting them in the oven (broiler section) for about 5 minutes, and then dumping them into ice water. After about the 4 - 5 time, the crusts started shattering, and most all the coins had virtually no crud on them when we were doing, and a nasty file of crud in the bottom of the water pan. In the broiler, we could here the crud cracking, as the coins versus crud had different thermal coefficients of expansion.
Joe
Time for a little controlled experamentation. Take a piece of the plastic, and a common coin similar to the ones embedded. Place them on a cookie sheet in the oven, heat to 200 monitor the results. Looking for maleable plastic. If not soft, increase heat by 25 degrees repeat until plastic becomes malleable. Just a suggestion
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
These are all pretty good suggestions and I sure do appreciate the time you all have spent helping me out. Just as soon as my world starts tuning slower I’ll for sure try these great ideas out.
Thanks a bunch, Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@erwindoc said:
If you have a dermatology friend, I bet they have a Liquid nitrogen gun in their office. That way, the sprays can be directed exactly where you want them.
Don't they have DIY over the counter wart/mole removal kits to freeze off tissue? If so, I wonder if these could be used if it came down to it.
The OTC is not nearly as cold as the liquid nitrogen. LN2 is nearly -300 and the OTC stuff is just a shade below freezing.
Joe, I have nothing scientifically to add here regarding chemical, heat, cold, mechanical, etc.
Freeing the plastic entrapped beauties is the next order of business. I think maybe we need to go back a few decades and remember the Ella Fitzgerald commercial from the 70's where she breaks a wine glass with her voice (reminds me of my mother in law).
Sadly Ella is no longer with us, but you're in California and great voices abound. I think if you dunk it, heat it, freeze it and smack it, THEN have an Ella wannabe belt out the highest pitch she can for at least 36 seconds, it might just do the trick. If this doesn't work then I'm out of ideas my friend. What I do know is the you'll figure it out.
Glad to help, I hope anyway ...BTW, I can have my mother-in-law on a plane on Thursday....
Bill
@erwindoc said:
If you have a dermatology friend, I bet they have a Liquid nitrogen gun in their office. That way, the sprays can be directed exactly where you want them.
Don't they have DIY over the counter wart/mole removal kits to freeze off tissue? If so, I wonder if these could be used if it came down to it.
The OTC is not nearly as cold as the liquid nitrogen. LN2 is nearly -300 and the OTC stuff is just a shade below freezing.
I should have thought that post through before I made it. No one is going to give the average Joe off of the street liquid nitrogen.
As others have suggested cooling your plastic blobs with liquid nitrogen would embrittle the plastic and breaking it would be the best way to release the coins. I have some uncirculated rolls in Meghrig plastic tubes that became impossible to remove. I scored the tubes along the long dimension and then put them in my freezer (-5 F.) overnight. I then put them in a plastic bag and dropped the cold mass on the floor. The plastic of the tubes shattered enabled me to extract the coins undamaged. You may want to reduce the size of your blobs by sawing or grinding before freezing. Heat would not be a good idea and any chemical that would dissolve the plastic would certainly damage the coins.
I not saying this will work on your “lump” and only try this if the “plastic” is ridged.
I once had to get an incased Ike 1972 Type 2 out of a melted piece of Lucite. It was an Ike Dollar novelty paperweight and this one happened to be a 1972 Type 2. I found it at a yard sale and it was clear that someone had tried to “liberate” it before me. After several attempts, some of which were mentioned by other posters, I used a method that has worked to “breakout” slabbed coins.
I wrapped the entire plastic piece in a terrycloth face towel and placed it in a bench vice so the coin was not near the metal edges. The top part was in the vice teeth but the coin was sticking out beyond the teeth. See simulated image below without towel wrap.
I tightened the vice slowly until I heard the first stress crackle. Then I left it for 5 minutes and turned it an about an eighth of a turn every five minutes three more times. Each time the stress fractures cascaded and small stress cracking sounds continued during the intervals. After the fourth turn, I waited a few minutes and then took it out of the vice to check. The fractures had reached the coin. I set it back in the vice turned it until I heard the crackles again and then tapped the top of the plastic with a tack hammer. The plastic shattered and separated into several large pieces and the coin was free.
Do not know if this will work for you and there is some “crack out” danger of abrading but the cloth wrap helps. The crystalline structure of the polymers in your plastic has been subjected to heat so the fracture pattern may be “triangular sharding” rather than “planar checking”. In your “chunk”, shards may be better and may take less pressure to facilitate sliding along the fissure points. There are no chemicals involved and you can stop at any point that does not “feel” right.
By the way, the image above is the PCGS submission results of the actual coin from this “vice” method.
Sorry that you have this problem and hope you find a way…..
It's going to be a great project when I can get the time to play.
I like the nitrogen idea and might give it a shot.
Thanks a again for all of the helpful ideas and taking your time to respond.
Happy hunting, Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@OldIndianNutKase said:
As others have suggested cooling your plastic blobs with liquid nitrogen would embrittle the plastic and breaking it would be the best way to release the coins. I have some uncirculated rolls in Meghrig plastic tubes that became impossible to remove. I scored the tubes along the long dimension and then put them in my freezer (-5 F.) overnight. I then put them in a plastic bag and dropped the cold mass on the floor. The plastic of the tubes shattered enabled me to extract the coins undamaged. You may want to reduce the size of your blobs by sawing or grinding before freezing. Heat would not be a good idea and any chemical that would dissolve the plastic would certainly damage the coins.
Hope this works for you.
OINK
Dropping coins on the floor with brittle shards of plastic sounds like a bad idea. You might as well spend whatever was in the rolls. Also what about condensation on the coins? I hope it wasn't copper.
There's probably an answer here but to decipher the chart looks tricky. Also, some of the chems that could dissolve the plastics could damage the coins. I'd send them in to be conserved, if that's possible.
Comments
Admittedly, I did not read every single suggestion above. All are trying to help.
I did read some of the internet links to pages that suggest solvents to dissolve PET. Even as a chemical engineer, I would not attempt to use any of those methods at home. Most of those chemicals are nasty, toxic, and need proper ventilation hoods and safety equipment. This is a classic case of "do not try this at home".
On the other hand, the first thing that came to my mind was using thermocycling to loosen (hopefully) the coin from the grasp of the polymer. Liquid nitrogen is not normally available to the general public, but dry ice is. (I can get it at my local supermarket of all places!)
I also like the diagonal cutter but I'd "aim" the point of the cutter toward the coin. This might cause a crack up to the coin and free it (much like cracking a coin out of a slab). This might not be a good strategy if the lump is not brittle. Edge nippers might be a better tool.
Perhaps a combination of techniques might work. Cool down the lump with dry ice in hopes the lump turns brittle enough for the diagonal cutter to be more effective.
Good luck, let us know what works.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Yes, the "hot knife through butter" scenario. That could work.
I would also like to thank @wildidea for sending me some Dan Carr replacements after the fire. It was a very generous gift so I’d like to mention this here.
Thank you my coin brother ❤️
Boil in water and twist. Wear gloves.
Indeed and to see. Good luck.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
I’ll for sure keep you all posted. I’m hoping to employ some hydraulic to this problem. Maybe on edge in a press to losin it up. Or to twist it some.
Thanks a bunch for all of these great suggestions and I will for sure keep you posted on the results. Hey now! If your in the area come on up and we’ll make a party out of it😉
Happy hunting, Joe
I would break it apart like I break slabs
I WOULD NOT TOUCH THE LUMP. ANYTHING, ANYTHING YOU TRY MIGHT DAMAGE THE COINS. SEND IN TO NCS AND LET THEM USE THEIR DECADES OF EXPERIENCE TO DO THE REMOVAL.
Best, SH
Hi Joe. Good meeting you at Fun.
You need the plastic to crack in one direction without getting any tools close to the coins. You could drill tiny holes to control the direction of the crack. Just a thought.
Have any dentist friends? A high speed handpiece is MUCH easier to control than a dremel. The dental handpiece doesn’t walk or jump like a dremel. I’m a veterinarian and have used both tools. I think the high speed handpiece with a cutting bur would work great
Good luck @crazyhounddog .... let us know how you resolve it
It breaks my heart seeing those beauties buried in melted plastic.
If you have a dermatology friend, I bet they have a Liquid nitrogen gun in their office. That way, the sprays can be directed exactly where you want them.
Don't they have DIY over the counter wart/mole removal kits to freeze off tissue? If so, I wonder if these could be used if it came down to it.
Buy some 95% BU copper cents and some junk silver war nickels and experiment.
Just a footnote to let you all know I’ll be doing a series of give aways here in the near future.
It should be some fun😉
Good luck with that clump; it's sure turned out to be a challenge for you. Anybody suggest the use of dynamite yet?
I’ll speak up and say it wasn’t me, someone else, we had a chat on a PM about it.
Joe,
Perhaps the grading companies can come up with a new holder to hold the clumps. Name it The Best Fire Collection.
I'd be a buyer buddy!
I think there are some good suggestions here. The thought of using different chemicals to dissolve the Mylar makes be a bit concerned for the coins, particularly copper. I think that heat will be your friend here for pulling things apart. The freezing cold to break it apart is also interesting. I would be real cautious about using a press, that force might transverse through the Mylar shell to the coin causing unwanted force.
Good luck, please let us know what worked... and also what did not work.
My son got some coins cheap due to be encased in various plastics like Lucite that could not be removed. We tried boiling, freezing, etc. Finally, I got some LN2, soaked them for a bit, pulled them out with tongs, and put them in a vise, and slowly tightened the vise. The plastic had become brittle, and between clamping it down, and the plastic expanding as it warmed, all of them shattered. The only hard part was putting some soft cloths under the jaws in case the coins dropped.
Also, for $1 a coin, he bought like 200 old Roman coins, most all heavily encrusted. We finally hit on putting them in the oven (broiler section) for about 5 minutes, and then dumping them into ice water. After about the 4 - 5 time, the crusts started shattering, and most all the coins had virtually no crud on them when we were doing, and a nasty file of crud in the bottom of the water pan. In the broiler, we could here the crud cracking, as the coins versus crud had different thermal coefficients of expansion.
I stumbled on this. could be something to consider.
https://www.southernlabware.com/bactizapper-sterilizer.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_c3Qoo7I4AIVhkGGCh0xQAxuEAQYASABEgJm6fD_BwE
Wow, that's a real mess. Have no clue how to help. No advice.
Be well,
bob
Joe
Time for a little controlled experamentation. Take a piece of the plastic, and a common coin similar to the ones embedded. Place them on a cookie sheet in the oven, heat to 200 monitor the results. Looking for maleable plastic. If not soft, increase heat by 25 degrees repeat until plastic becomes malleable. Just a suggestion
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
These are all pretty good suggestions and I sure do appreciate the time you all have spent helping me out. Just as soon as my world starts tuning slower I’ll for sure try these great ideas out.
Thanks a bunch, Joe
The OTC is not nearly as cold as the liquid nitrogen. LN2 is nearly -300 and the OTC stuff is just a shade below freezing.
Joe, I have nothing scientifically to add here regarding chemical, heat, cold, mechanical, etc.
Freeing the plastic entrapped beauties is the next order of business. I think maybe we need to go back a few decades and remember the Ella Fitzgerald commercial from the 70's where she breaks a wine glass with her voice (reminds me of my mother in law).
Sadly Ella is no longer with us, but you're in California and great voices abound. I think if you dunk it, heat it, freeze it and smack it, THEN have an Ella wannabe belt out the highest pitch she can for at least 36 seconds, it might just do the trick. If this doesn't work then I'm out of ideas my friend. What I do know is the you'll figure it out.
Glad to help, I hope anyway ...BTW, I can have my mother-in-law on a plane on Thursday....
Bill
I should have thought that post through before I made it. No one is going to give the average Joe off of the street liquid nitrogen.
This is similar to what I was thinking. You can just cut around the coin using the localized heat from the soldering iron or even a wood burner.
As others have suggested cooling your plastic blobs with liquid nitrogen would embrittle the plastic and breaking it would be the best way to release the coins. I have some uncirculated rolls in Meghrig plastic tubes that became impossible to remove. I scored the tubes along the long dimension and then put them in my freezer (-5 F.) overnight. I then put them in a plastic bag and dropped the cold mass on the floor. The plastic of the tubes shattered enabled me to extract the coins undamaged. You may want to reduce the size of your blobs by sawing or grinding before freezing. Heat would not be a good idea and any chemical that would dissolve the plastic would certainly damage the coins.
Hope this works for you.
OINK
I not saying this will work on your “lump” and only try this if the “plastic” is ridged.
I once had to get an incased Ike 1972 Type 2 out of a melted piece of Lucite. It was an Ike Dollar novelty paperweight and this one happened to be a 1972 Type 2. I found it at a yard sale and it was clear that someone had tried to “liberate” it before me. After several attempts, some of which were mentioned by other posters, I used a method that has worked to “breakout” slabbed coins.
I wrapped the entire plastic piece in a terrycloth face towel and placed it in a bench vice so the coin was not near the metal edges. The top part was in the vice teeth but the coin was sticking out beyond the teeth. See simulated image below without towel wrap.
I tightened the vice slowly until I heard the first stress crackle. Then I left it for 5 minutes and turned it an about an eighth of a turn every five minutes three more times. Each time the stress fractures cascaded and small stress cracking sounds continued during the intervals. After the fourth turn, I waited a few minutes and then took it out of the vice to check. The fractures had reached the coin. I set it back in the vice turned it until I heard the crackles again and then tapped the top of the plastic with a tack hammer. The plastic shattered and separated into several large pieces and the coin was free.
Do not know if this will work for you and there is some “crack out” danger of abrading but the cloth wrap helps. The crystalline structure of the polymers in your plastic has been subjected to heat so the fracture pattern may be “triangular sharding” rather than “planar checking”. In your “chunk”, shards may be better and may take less pressure to facilitate sliding along the fissure points. There are no chemicals involved and you can stop at any point that does not “feel” right.
By the way, the image above is the PCGS submission results of the actual coin from this “vice” method.
Sorry that you have this problem and hope you find a way…..
It's going to be a great project when I can get the time to play.
I like the nitrogen idea and might give it a shot.
Thanks a again for all of the helpful ideas and taking your time to respond.
Happy hunting, Joe
Here's a pretty fire coin recovery I'd like to show.
Here's another one from a glob.
@crazyhound .... did you notice if the toning might've been more intensified after fire?
Turn big lumps into small, 1-coin lumps ... slowly and carefully.
Then crack with nippers as you would open a slab.
@Paradisefound
Maybe just a tad.
Dropping coins on the floor with brittle shards of plastic sounds like a bad idea. You might as well spend whatever was in the rolls. Also what about condensation on the coins? I hope it wasn't copper.
There's probably an answer here but to decipher the chart looks tricky. Also, some of the chems that could dissolve the plastics could damage the coins. I'd send them in to be conserved, if that's possible.
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-acid-not-dissolve-plastic-What-does