I don't believe auction houses or their fees have anything to do with new collectors coming into the hobby or not.
Unfortunately, we've been going to a mostly cashless society in the last couple of decades which means less exposure to cash, particularly coins. This is even more true for younger folks. Hard for new collectors to get into older coins when they rarely see or touch the current coins.
But there are still new folks coming to this hobby, most likely because of their interest in history and the exposure to the hobby from family and friends.
You would think on a place like Facebook you'd have more younger folks interested in coins... there are some, but not as many as I would have thought.
Of those, 97% are men, 3% women. Not that surprising I guess. Only about 9% of my followers are under 35... thought it would be more. For comparison, 42% of my followers are over 55.
@Zoins said:
I think auction house commissions are just confusing to new people. It takes a while to understand how things like juice and hammer actually work.
When someone says a seller is getting 95%, 100% or 104% of hammer, I think it's much simpler to just say the seller is getting 76%, 80% or 83.2%, assuming a 20% BP. Of course, 100% sounds a lot more than 80%, which may be a reason for the language.
what confuses me is why auction houses need to go so far to obfuscate the cost.
Auction house commissions are confusing and Seller's commissions are not always posted. A few years back my experience was 17.5% to the seller AND 17.5% to the buyer. If I buy an expensive coin from Heritage they currently offer 0% seller's commission only on that specific coin.
If their commission was 10% a decades ago there is no reason it couldn't be 5% now. Its much less work now that we have this newfangled internet thing
Coin collecting and stamp collecting are deemed to be old man hobbies. They always have been. Why did we become collectors? Some came to it on their own, but for most of us, there was some older person who either created the spark of interest, or saw it and nurtured it.
The only way to have another generation of collectors is to nurture the interest when they are young. My kids (9 and 8 years old) got Ikes from the tooth fairy. They each have a Morgan and Peace Dollar. They have started Indian Head Cent collections that have grown thanks to the generosity of members here. In short, if we want a new generation of collectors, we need to recruit and nurture them. It starts with our kids. We have collections that will either be passed down or sold when we die. We can teach our kids about the coins and what makes them special enough to us to collect (or at least the value so they don't get ripped off when they sell). There may be small sparks of interest that can be helped into becoming a fire. When we share what is special to us with our kids, it helps to create more of a connection with our kids. Bottom line, if we want a new generation of collectors to sell or pass our collections to, it is up to us to help create it.
In regard to the cashless society scenario. What will be put in those tip jars we all see at the movie theater concession stand,Dunkin Donuts counter, Chinese food restaurants, etc. They are all looking for tips for take out orders. I never understood these tip jars being placed at the take out area of a business, or at the movie theater.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
In regard to the cashless society scenario. What will be put in those tip jars we all see at the movie theater concession stand,Dunkin Donuts counter, Chinese food restaurants, etc. They are all looking for tips for take out orders. I never understood these tip jars being placed at the take out area of a business, or at the movie theater.
This poor world isn't going to last long enough to go cashless if things don't change.
I have found coins in commerce, on the ground and in coinstar machines, and purchased coins from coin shops, antique shops, ebay, BST, coin shows, gun shows, the U.S. Mint and acquaintances. I do not purchase from large auction houses. This discussion about new collectors grows tiresome. There are plenty of new collectors and even young collectors. It seems aging eyes - and focus on old methods - fail to see them. The hobby is not dying, it is evolving. Cheers, RickO
Have fun with your coins. I read that a lot and I seeing that many posters here are doing exactly that. I was really speaking to those who consider coins as an investment and I was addressing my remarks to those collectors.
_The costs are too high, the point of collecting is too vague. _
I watch guys at work that make $55,000 to $100,000 per year and they are 23 years old to 40 year old. They play online poker for money and they bet sports parlays of $100 and up. Their interests have morphed from games to gaming. aka Gambling.
I've talked to a couple of promoters, and their view is that younger people want an experience when they attend an expo / convention / show. Given that, they will participate. For example, the comic cons are packed. A small one in Ft Lauderdale drew a sellout crowd of 60,000. An upcoming comic con in Miami is priced as follows (minimum $30. / day entry): https://purchase.growtix.com/eh/Florida_Supercon_2019
I'm not a great marketer so I do not have an answer to making coin shows interactive, but the promoter that figures it out will grow not only his show but the hobby in general as others follow. Many of the other issues within the hobby will solve themselves over time with an increased collector base.
I can only tell my personal experience for getting into coin collecting during my teens, which I am now 36.
My grandparents had been holding on to a coin collection from my great grandfather. I went to visit them one summer and just started asking about everything in their house. Eventually they showed me all the coins and I was enthralled.
Then at 16 I got a job at a local fast food joint and strange coins started coming through the cash register. I would pay for them out of my wages and my parents started talking about my collecting on weekend phone calls to my grandparents.
At 17 they decided to pass down the coin collection to me, maybe because they had a feeling I wouldn't just go and cash everything in. To this day I still have each of those coins and I have been slowly adding to it.
If you want young people to take interest you need to expose them to these coins, and possibly give them some pieces to hold onto. It is amazing what looking at an old coin on a Sunday night before bed can morph into. This is especially true these days cause I almost always see people pay for things with a card. Hard to hook those retail teenagers like I was when all they get is debit/credit.
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
@Davideo said:
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
@Davideo said:
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
...said no one ever
Thanks for this post! I never thought about who was President during my coins but I should. I just looked up John Tyler and found out that he was such an unpopular President that his own party disowned him. His claim to fame seems to be setting up acceptance of Texas into the Union.
Here's a coin from 1842 which I didn't avoid because of President John Tyler.
@Davideo said:
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
...said no one ever
Thanks for this post! I never thought about who was President during my coins but I should. I just looked up John Tyler and found out that he was such an unpopular President that his own party disowned him. His claim to fame seems to be setting up acceptance of Texas into the Union.
Here's a coin from 1842 which I didn't avoid because of President John Tyler.
@Davideo said:
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
...said no one ever
Why Rutherford B. Hays? His supporters stole the 1876 presidential election. Samuel J. Tilden should have been elected.
I agree with you on Tyler. He was an old Jeffersonian re-tred who opposed a central bank to the nation’s detriment and supported slavery.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
At a recent show I saw a sharp young vest pocket trader about 11 or 12 working the bourse flow doing deals / flipping stuff the whole 2 days. He had his own special briefcase and was carrying green sheet. I think he had more on the ball than most of them coming in the door. There are interested younger players out there. He came to my table and offered some PMG 67 silver Cert at a really good price whidch he flipped quickly with another dealer plus inquired on a PCGS MS66 CAC Oregon in my case. So he’s doing both coins and currency which is about what it takes these days to move the ball.
I don’t do business with auc houses that have high fees. In bidding, I will subtract any fee from what I would normally bid like on eBay (no buyer fee). I can’t imagine getting whacked by really high juice both ways and wonder why those auc still even in business. I am sure they hate eBay lol. Get an eBay store or try GC.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
I wonder how many of these 'new collectors" are really just collectors or just looking for a short term financial gain flip. Nothing wrong with the flip aspect though, it allows dealers to move product.
I think most new collectors end up paying tuition for a while....
I know I did, Fortunately for me I had a couple of great dealers and along with limited funds, the tuition compared to what I learned was minimal. After forty years, I am still here and learning more every day.
@Davideo said:
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
...said no one ever
Thanks for this post! I never thought about who was President during my coins but I should. I just looked up John Tyler and found out that he was such an unpopular President that his own party disowned him. His claim to fame seems to be setting up acceptance of Texas into the Union.
Here's a coin from 1842 which I didn't avoid because of President John Tyler.
Have a friends son in law trying to decide on crypto currency or coin collecting. Putting together a package of coins I don't need and info on how to buy and where to look. Emphasize grading is everything. Hope he listens.
Comments
I don't believe auction houses or their fees have anything to do with new collectors coming into the hobby or not.
Unfortunately, we've been going to a mostly cashless society in the last couple of decades which means less exposure to cash, particularly coins. This is even more true for younger folks. Hard for new collectors to get into older coins when they rarely see or touch the current coins.
But there are still new folks coming to this hobby, most likely because of their interest in history and the exposure to the hobby from family and friends.
You would think on a place like Facebook you'd have more younger folks interested in coins... there are some, but not as many as I would have thought.
I took a look and I have just over 5600 followers on my Michael Kittle Rare Coins Facebook Page
Of those, 97% are men, 3% women. Not that surprising I guess. Only about 9% of my followers are under 35... thought it would be more. For comparison, 42% of my followers are over 55.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
If their commission was 10% a decades ago there is no reason it couldn't be 5% now. Its much less work now that we have this newfangled internet thing
Coin collecting and stamp collecting are deemed to be old man hobbies. They always have been. Why did we become collectors? Some came to it on their own, but for most of us, there was some older person who either created the spark of interest, or saw it and nurtured it.
The only way to have another generation of collectors is to nurture the interest when they are young. My kids (9 and 8 years old) got Ikes from the tooth fairy. They each have a Morgan and Peace Dollar. They have started Indian Head Cent collections that have grown thanks to the generosity of members here. In short, if we want a new generation of collectors, we need to recruit and nurture them. It starts with our kids. We have collections that will either be passed down or sold when we die. We can teach our kids about the coins and what makes them special enough to us to collect (or at least the value so they don't get ripped off when they sell). There may be small sparks of interest that can be helped into becoming a fire. When we share what is special to us with our kids, it helps to create more of a connection with our kids. Bottom line, if we want a new generation of collectors to sell or pass our collections to, it is up to us to help create it.
There were only 11 people left in the circle of trust , and they were at the last supper.
In regard to the cashless society scenario. What will be put in those tip jars we all see at the movie theater concession stand,Dunkin Donuts counter, Chinese food restaurants, etc. They are all looking for tips for take out orders. I never understood these tip jars being placed at the take out area of a business, or at the movie theater.
We can’t even get rid of the cent or the rag buck, what makes you think we can go completely cashless? Not happening.
This poor world isn't going to last long enough to go cashless if things don't change.
I have found coins in commerce, on the ground and in coinstar machines, and purchased coins from coin shops, antique shops, ebay, BST, coin shows, gun shows, the U.S. Mint and acquaintances. I do not purchase from large auction houses. This discussion about new collectors grows tiresome. There are plenty of new collectors and even young collectors. It seems aging eyes - and focus on old methods - fail to see them. The hobby is not dying, it is evolving. Cheers, RickO
Have fun with your coins. I read that a lot and I seeing that many posters here are doing exactly that. I was really speaking to those who consider coins as an investment and I was addressing my remarks to those collectors.
_The costs are too high, the point of collecting is too vague. _
I watch guys at work that make $55,000 to $100,000 per year and they are 23 years old to 40 year old. They play online poker for money and they bet sports parlays of $100 and up. Their interests have morphed from games to gaming. aka Gambling.
I've talked to a couple of promoters, and their view is that younger people want an experience when they attend an expo / convention / show. Given that, they will participate. For example, the comic cons are packed. A small one in Ft Lauderdale drew a sellout crowd of 60,000. An upcoming comic con in Miami is priced as follows (minimum $30. / day entry):
https://purchase.growtix.com/eh/Florida_Supercon_2019
I'm not a great marketer so I do not have an answer to making coin shows interactive, but the promoter that figures it out will grow not only his show but the hobby in general as others follow. Many of the other issues within the hobby will solve themselves over time with an increased collector base.
I can only tell my personal experience for getting into coin collecting during my teens, which I am now 36.
My grandparents had been holding on to a coin collection from my great grandfather. I went to visit them one summer and just started asking about everything in their house. Eventually they showed me all the coins and I was enthralled.
Then at 16 I got a job at a local fast food joint and strange coins started coming through the cash register. I would pay for them out of my wages and my parents started talking about my collecting on weekend phone calls to my grandparents.
At 17 they decided to pass down the coin collection to me, maybe because they had a feeling I wouldn't just go and cash everything in. To this day I still have each of those coins and I have been slowly adding to it.
If you want young people to take interest you need to expose them to these coins, and possibly give them some pieces to hold onto. It is amazing what looking at an old coin on a Sunday night before bed can morph into. This is especially true these days cause I almost always see people pay for things with a card. Hard to hook those retail teenagers like I was when all they get is debit/credit.
I was going to a buy an 1842 quarter, but I don't like President John Tyler and the politics of that generation, so I passed. I like to target Rutherford B. Hayes era coins, much more agreeable.
...said no one ever
What the heck did he do to offend you?
Thanks for this post! I never thought about who was President during my coins but I should. I just looked up John Tyler and found out that he was such an unpopular President that his own party disowned him. His claim to fame seems to be setting up acceptance of Texas into the Union.
Here's a coin from 1842 which I didn't avoid because of President John Tyler.
You should have seen his twitter feed
Why Rutherford B. Hays? His supporters stole the 1876 presidential election. Samuel J. Tilden should have been elected.
I agree with you on Tyler. He was an old Jeffersonian re-tred who opposed a central bank to the nation’s detriment and supported slavery.
At a recent show I saw a sharp young vest pocket trader about 11 or 12 working the bourse flow doing deals / flipping stuff the whole 2 days. He had his own special briefcase and was carrying green sheet. I think he had more on the ball than most of them coming in the door. There are interested younger players out there. He came to my table and offered some PMG 67 silver Cert at a really good price whidch he flipped quickly with another dealer plus inquired on a PCGS MS66 CAC Oregon in my case. So he’s doing both coins and currency which is about what it takes these days to move the ball.
I don’t do business with auc houses that have high fees. In bidding, I will subtract any fee from what I would normally bid like on eBay (no buyer fee). I can’t imagine getting whacked by really high juice both ways and wonder why those auc still even in business. I am sure they hate eBay lol. Get an eBay store or try GC.
I know I did, Fortunately for me I had a couple of great dealers and along with limited funds, the tuition compared to what I learned was minimal. After forty years, I am still here and learning more every day.
Nice coin!
Have a friends son in law trying to decide on crypto currency or coin collecting. Putting together a package of coins I don't need and info on how to buy and where to look. Emphasize grading is everything. Hope he listens.