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U.S. Mint moving from coin silver to .999?
BackroadJunkie
Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
The Apollo 11 and American Legion silver dollars are .999 silver, from 90%.
The 2019 America the Beautiful Quarters Silver Proof Set (19AQ) is listing at .999:
Composition: 99.9% silver
The Mint has been authorized for a couple years now to do 90% or better, it looks like they may have finally made the move. Too bad they didn't do that for the Silver RP set last year... 
Oh, the ATB Quarter Proof Set will go on sale Feb 21.
Edit to add: And the price for the 5 quarter set jumped $3 over last year...
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And the price for the 5 quarter set jumped $3 over last year...
I was just thinking that, more silver, higher costs. I do prefer the purity. Will that have any affect on tarnishing or spotting opposed to having a little mix?
Just more NCLT (Non-Circulating Legal Tender) junk from the US Mint. The .999 fineness will make it easier to calculate the value when it heads for the melting pot.
The Mint should stay at 90%. I have had lots of .999 silver coins milk spot.
Never had a 90% silver commemorative milk spot.
GRANDAM, I had several silver quarter and half dollars in the 1963 proof sets with milk spots.
I've seen milk spots on 90% commems
Is this mean less toning probability with .999?
Did not realize this change... I’m sure the change to the composition of quarters will create some confusion going forward.
probably not. It is, after all, the silver that tones.
Actually more. ASE's tone quickly. Or tarnish. Pretty tarnish is toning. Ugly is tarnish.
.999 will create more monster toner commems which may generate more interest in the coins.
I am hoping that the .999 silver had something to do with the 'curvature' of the Apollo coins. The pure alloy was easier to work with, perhaps?
I am hoping that most dollar commemoratives will maintain the traditional weight and fineness.
I am wondering about what the Apollo coins will actually weigh?
Great - we now have 90% and 99.9% to deal with when calculating the "value" of our modern silver commems. Do they get separated at the refiner, or all thrown in to average out at 95%?
Probably averaged out to 92.5%
Sterling silver!
This change was authorized by the bill that also authorized the Palladium Eagle program. I wrote about it in COINage in the Fall of 2015. If anybody wants a copy of the manuscript only (no artwork) send me an email to my CaptHenway address and I will send you a copy of it when I can.
I prefer the 99.99% pure silver... no reason other than I like purity better than alloy. And yes, the pure silver will tarnish.. and no matter what color is produced, it is still tarnish... and like a rose, with thorns, tarnish is environmental damage...Cheers, RickO
And per the Federal Register, all upgrades from .90 to .999 will increase in price....
United States Mint America the Beautiful Quarters Silver Proof Set.....$36.95 (2018 price $33.95)
United States Mint Silver Proof Set...................$54.95 (2018 price $49.95)
United States Mint Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.......$149.95 (2018 price $144.95)
No fears about the nasty toning, we have the little miracle known as Weimans tarnish remover. Good as new in a matter of seconds.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
As quoted from their package:
"Weiman Silver Wipes clean, polish and protect silver and most metals. These silver wipes are extremely easy to use, just wipe the silver in a circular motion, rinse and buff. The ease of use and ability to clean in detail with the wipe makes it perfect for cleaning jewelry like rings, necklaces, bracelets and watches."
Ahh, wiping in a circular motion and buffing. I am glad they didn't list coins!
Use the liquid not the wipes. Dip and done, will straight grade every time and the best part BLAST WHITE.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Is that the secret dipping solution? No weird drip stains? Dries evenly?
Any bets that someone finds a 2019 ATB silver quarter that is "accidentally" still in 90% Ag and 10% Cu?
It just seems like an error waiting to happen to a lucky someone with a really good scale and a lot of time to break open the new proof sets to check.
2018 silver coin quarter 6.25 grams. 2019 silver quarter 6.343 grams.
Same with the 2019 silver proof dime and Kennedy, but probably less likely.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
The silver coins don’t go into circulation anymore so no need to pay extra to have Cu added in for wear and I’m sure the pure silver is easier on the equipment
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
if a dime were a tenth ounce , I could understand the math and price increases easier, but something tells me a quarter and half wont be quarter and half troy ounces either. And commemorative dollars ? Will they be 5 grams short of a troy ounce ? I think I know the answer. It's just my analytical mind processing the change.
probably not. It is, after all, the silver that tones
It was said that the reason for 3 nines was cost - they can commercially buy regular silver bullion instead of having to have it specially made. But if it's really cheaper to buy, why the cost increase?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Maybe it is because Philly, Denver, and San Francisco have high 8-8,5% sales tax rates. In addition Pennsylvania, Colorado also have additional state income tax 3.07% and 4.6% and California has a progressive state income tax rate of 1 to 13.3% on top of the sales taxes. They are also very expensive cities to live in and the Mint needs to make a profit to cover for the required higher worker's wages and pensions.
If they move the mints to Carson City there is no state income tax, and cost of living is cheaper. It is also closer to Idaho silver mines and the Sunshine Mint where silver blanks are made, and Nevada is the #1 gold producing state saving shipping costs for blanks.
Plus I liked the CC coins more anyway. And of course most of the above is tongue-in-cheek.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
The Mint does not charge a sales tax on their item. Therefore moving their location is a moot issue.
So same diameter, but not as thick?
Very interesting
Are the weights changing as well or just the finenesses? If no weight change than the ASW goes up,
Back to trying to answer the real question of why the price increases coming for 2019.
According to the Mint directive they are supposed to break even or make money on the Numismatic side of the business. They make plenty of money on seigniorage from circulating coins ( except for cents and nickels) and on other bullion items, but I believe we are mostly interested in the Numismatic side of their business.
The recent 2018 US Mint Annual report (fiscal years end in Sept) indicates that they lost money in 2018 in the Numismatic part of the business. It is also a real big drop in net income since 2015. This is directly from their report.
NUMISMATIC
(….dollars in millions ) 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 % Change 2017 to 2018
Net Income & Seigniorage $(15.3) $19.2 $34.5 $66.8 $50.8 (179.7%)
Numismatic Net Margin (5.2%) 5.0% 8.4% 14.7% 10.1% (204.0%)
This is the explanation message from the Mint's Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Kristie McNally:
"FY 2018 demand for Numismatic products decreased 14.4 percent to 3.3 million units in FY 2018. Numismatic revenues decreased 24.4 percent to $293.1 million. Numismatics experienced a net loss of $15.3 million (before protection expenses), which is a 179.7 percent decrease compared to last year. As a result, numismatic net margin decreased to (5.2) percent compared to 5.0 percent last year. Although the performance of the Mint’s numismatic products was lower than prior years, the program had successes from the sale of its commemorative coins which incorporate surcharges for the recipient organizations which are selected by Congress."
So bottom line, they are tasked with cutting costs, improving efficiency, and if necessary raising prices, so they do not actually lose money on this side of the business. And interestingly they actually also lost money on the platinum and palladium bullion coins, too.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
As high as their markup is it's hard to believe they were not profitable on sell outs like the palladium.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
In the bullion areas (they are not in the numismatic category) the 2017 Palladium bullion coin lost money, the proof palladium data was not completed in the 2018 annual report as it came out in Sept which is on the cutoff for financials. Have to wait till the end of the year to see the numismatic proof results if they split it out.
Palladium bullion coin 2017 sales 15,000, revenue $14.6M, cost of goods sold $15.6M, selling and G&A expense $0.3M, net income $(1.3)M, or as a percentage margin negative 8.9% on the coin. Edited to say the 2018 platinum bullion did have data and lost 3.3M. Keep in mind platinum was over $1,000 when the Mint bought blanks and it steadily dropped to $800, so they got hit with the price drop. That is part of why their cost was high.
in 2019 if they have been buying palladium at 1300 to 1500 the same thing could happen if the price drops when they sell the coins..
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
From all available data right now, the silver commem weights will stay the same. The quarters, interestingly, is moving from 6.250g to 6.343g. I haven't calculated what the increase of weight of silver vs. copper, but that 930mg could be increase in weight because silver is heavier than copper. This assumes they kept the thickness the same.
Where did you see that, please?
Are you talking to me? Haven't you read in any of the other threads that I don't like homework?
Don't know exactly what "that" means, so here's all of it. (The links go to the specific Mint web pages.)
Commemoratives:
2018 WWI: Composition: 90% silver, 10% copper, Diameter: 1.500 inches, 38.10 mm, Weight: 26.730 grams
2018 BCA Silver: Composition: 90% Silver, 10% Copper, Diameter: 1.500 inches, Weight: 26.730 grams
Apollo 11 Silver: Composition: 99.9% Silver, Diameter: 1.500 inches, Weight: 26.730 grams
American Legion Silver: Composition: 99.9% Silver, Diameter: 1.500 inches, Weight: 26.730 grams
Quarters:
2018 silver proof quarter set: Composition: 90% Silver, 10% Copper, Weight: 6.250 grams, Diameter: 0.955 inch (24.26 mm)
2019 silver proof quarter set: Composition: 99.9% silver, Weight: 6.343 grams, Diameter: 0.955 inch (24.26 mm)
On second thought, since the quarter has to be a specific size, the weight difference probably is the difference in weight between copper and silver.
Yes, that, thank you.
Curious that the dollars are retaining their old weight (if they are) while the quarters are getting heavier (if they are). (Never trust anything the Mint says.)
Perhaps the quarters are getting heavier to maintain their previous thickness so they do not rattle in the existing plastic shells, since .999 silver is denser than, and therefore thinner than, .900 fine silver.
TD