Is this a Proof Peace Dollar?

commoncents05

Taken from the Heritage archives, is this coin, sold in April of 2002. According to the lot description, there was debate (at least in QDB's mind) whether this is indeed a proof or not. It says:

Bowers describes the present circulated example and states: "This may be a circulation strike that escaped the melting pot (or it may be a proof that was spent)."
Judging by the way they graded this coin, PCGS believes in the latter theory. We admit that the amount of wear is extensive enough to preclude a definitive study of the original surface texture. There is, however, no doubt that this coin was struck in high relief, and with a considerable amount of pressure to provide for the considerable remaining central definition. Both sides are extensively worn with rich lavender-charcoal toning and scattered marks from a stint in circulation. An intriguing coin that begs for further study.

Has any "further study" been done? If so, what did it find?

kwmorgan

Looks a heck of a lot like a 1921. I'd guess it was a spent proof, if genuine. I did not know these existed...wow.

Raybo

VF Peace dollar IMHO.

Overdate

QDB's 1993 silver dollar encyclopedia reported more than 35,000 1922 high relief business strikes were made, most of which were melted and not released. So this coin could be a business-strike melt survivor or a spent proof. The mystery probably adds to the coin's appeal.

stevek

Whoever submitted it surely knew what he had.

rld14

I'd say it's probably. Also, who's seen a VF25 21 Peace dollar that's that detailed? The coin appears to be VERY well struck.

illini420

<< <i>I'd say it's probably. Also, who's seen a VF25 21 Peace dollar that's that detailed? The coin appears to be VERY well struck. >>



And it's a nice looking coin overall as well!

PutTogether

I would imagine RWB could answer this definitely for us.

What did that sell for back in 04/02?

frnklnlvr

I didn't know these existed. I thought the only proof was from 1921.

What's the population for this coin?

Edit: What was the winning bid for this?

Coxe

It is well known and definitely not the typical 1922 Peace dollar. The high relief 1922 Peace dollar was documented as mentioned here. Second only to the 1964 as the key rarity for the series and similar in legend to the 1895 Morgan businesss strike. Unlike the Morgan though, the underfollowed Peace dollar is not well known at all among the broader coin community. It is definitely worth checking your otherwise exceedingly common 1922 Peaced ollars for one of these as any found has extremely good future potential. The key feature to pick up on is the number of rays on the reverse between the rock and tail feathers, below the leg feathers.

zeus135

PCGS Pop:

PR25 - 1
PR64 - 2
PR66 - 2

coinkat

It looks as if it is a High relief 1922- I would rather see it in hand, but I tend to believe PCGS got it right

fcloud

I think it should grade higher (at least from the photo). There is a ton of detail in that coin. Some unc coins don't have that much detail!
I'd give it a VF35.

RWB

The coin appears to be a 1922 sandblast proof pattern that was later spent. The description is largely obsolete. You will find new research information in: Renaissance of American Coinage 1916-1921 published in 2005 and A Guide Book of Peace Dollars recently published by Whitman. The easiest diagnostic are the rays above the eagle’s back the last 2 are much longer than on a 1921 coin. A second key is a die defect just above the eagle’s talon near the olive branch – it appears only on this reverse.

This die pair was evidently never used to strike trial pieces.

David W. Lange recently discovered a 1922 HR with reverse of 1921, and evidently struck on a production press. This coin is likely a survivor of the 34,000 + pieces identified in Bob Julian’s research. (this is included in the Peace dollar book).

Hope this helps.

crazyhounddog

WOW! Very cool! No matter what condition! I love that coin, How much???

RWB

$10,637.50 in 2002 according the Heritage's archives.

dcarr

I can't tell for sure from the picture. Does this coin have the extra (fourth) ray below "ONE", like the 1921 and 1935-S (VAMs 3, 4, & 6) ?

crypto79

the 4ray rev from 35 is a little different but yes this is definitely a 1922 HR or med R. What one should look for is the ray extending over the word ONE and the font of the 2's in 1922 is also different. these styles were not used on any other style of peace dollar. It is not a normal 22

Peaceman

Someone on ebay 2 years ago was trying to sell it... couldn't get 5 figures for it a few times...

tombr

Here's a raw 21 I own. It's looks like it's twin.

RWB

An opinion:

The 1922 HR pattern version was probably the best looking of all the variations on the Peace dollar composition. Engraver George Morgan judiciously sharpened and better defined the original. This resulted in the coin having both the post neoclassical boldness with clarity of presentation. (Holding one of these in your hand is much like holding one of the EHR $20 by Saint-Gaudens – the design has a “presence” of its own that is lost in lower relief.)

If Morgan had known how to properly use the reducing lathe, he could have reduced the obverse relief without disturbing overall appearance, and without turning the reverse into mush.

As it turned out, deFrancisci had to make a new low relief set of models and these lost the definition and clarity of presentation originally indented. It is disappointing that Jim Fraser did not push to have new reductions from Morgan’s 1922 HR done by Medallic Art, but I presume everyone was fed-up with the project by the end of January.

crypto79

<< <i>Someone on ebay 2 years ago was trying to sell it... couldn't get 5 figures for it a few times... >>


don't know who do you? I would love to find that in a dealers case

crypto79

close but look above the N in ONE. you will notice that the length of the ray is different then any other known peace dollar except the 22 proof

Rampage

Yep, looks like the high relief to me. Seems that I've seen this coin posted on the forum some time in the past, no?

Rampage

<< <i>Yep, looks like the high relief to me. Seems that I've seen this coin posted on the forum some time in the past, no? >>



I probably did, back in 2002 when someone posted it here-maybe. I know I've seen it here before...Neat coin...

sinin1

I think I read 3 obverse dies and 10 reverse dies for the 35K minted

so what diagnostices differentiate a circulated coin from the regular 51.8 million?

Rampage

<< <i>I think I read 3 obverse dies and 10 reverse dies for the 35K minted

so what diagnostices differentiate a circulated coin from the regular 51.8 million? >>



One I know of and use regularly when looking at circulated Peace dollars is the number of rays between the stone and the tale feathers. There is additional ray there, similar to the 1921.

mrfred

I concur with the evolving opinion here -- it looks like a circulated proof. Fascinating.

p.s. Tom: I was about to go get a raw circulated HR 1921 from my collection in about the same condition. You beat me to it!

RWB

There are two high relief 1922 versions to look for:

1. 1922 HR pattern with new 1922 reverse. (Long rays above eagle, rounded lettering, etc. as on photo at top of post.) These were struck as sandblast proofs for treasury official review. Not struck as trial pieces. Approximately 10-12 struck.
2. 1922 HR trial pieces. 1922 HR obverse paired with 1921 reverse (Short rays above eagle, flat lettering, etc. as seen on normal 1921 dollars. Strike will be consistent with 1921 and noticeably weaker than the 1922 pattern.) Currently unique - VF

sinin1

I see some with 6 rays between stone and feathers and some with 7
I see some with the top 5 arrows above the eagle about the same size and some with choppy
one the right I see some with the 2nd arrow lower than the first and some a little higher than the first
I see see some with a lone arrow extending from the N of ONE and some that do not extend


Stack's had one offered in 11/08 that NGC calls high relief satin proof
I think the pattern guys gave it Judd 2109
I love the reverse detail but the obverse is somewhat mushy



Stack's 11/08 auction

I read that Lange discovered a 1922 witha 1921 reverse

how many 1921 dies were used?

crypto79

<< <i>I see some with 6 rays between stone and feathers and some with 7
I see some with the top 5 arrows above the eagle about the same size and some with choppy
one the right I see some with the 2nd arrow lower than the first and some a little higher than the first
I see see some with a lone arrow extending from the N of ONE and some that do not extend


Stack's had one offered in 11/08 that NGC calls high relief satin proof
I think the pattern guys gave it Judd 2109
I love the reverse detail but the obverse is somewhat mushy



Stack's 11/08 auction

I read that Lange discovered a 1922 witha 1921 reverse

how many 1921 dies were used? >>

The one you have pictured is the Rev of 21

RWB

That’s the discovery coin. The “mush” is because it was probably struck on a production press and thus has the same soft or missing detail as the 1921’s.

RWB

Since discovering the real story of the 1921 -1922 HR coins, I have not figured out why Morgan didn't reduce relief in the central obverse area. He knew within minutes of production start on Dec 28 that this was the primary problem - and so did de Francisci, who was there for the "first strikes."