Unbelievable How can this continue to happen, Don't dealers read what's happening in the industry
habaraca
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Looks like the same scam putting stuff in a BOX.................
https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2019/01/thieves-take-gold-coins-worth-10k-from-portage-shop.html
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Even more remarkable is that the reporter got it right:
"The American Eagle gold coins have a retail value of $1,250 to $1,300 each, Hocevar said. The one-ounce coins are sold at the market rate plus three percent, he said, and the value of the coin is in the gold itself."
Two important things:
1) Nobody got hurt.
2) There is surveillance footage.
This story may well have a good ending, and I'm sure the dealer has learned a lesson about inventory control.
That, and other gold like it, will be on it's way to Europe or somewhere else before this week ends.
“It was a good chance they were professionals at what they did,” Hocevar, 56, said.
Unfortunately the thieves can's say the same for the dealer.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Common ploy. No violence yet, but I wonder what would happen if some of these theives were caught and cornered.
Best way to hypnotize a dealer - flash a wad of cash. All common sense goes out the window, and the coins out the door.
I read all about it. It happened to me, too. Same M.O.. They looked Hispanic but were Romanian gypsies.
We love to blame the victim, nowadays. It's easy to see where WE are at fault and how WE are to blame.
My parents ( RIP) ran a credit union years ago. Some guy walked in and robbed them. I suppose it was my parents' fault for letting the robber in. Or maybe for going to work.
They didn't die from that robbery. They died years later from natural causes. This ____'s getting old.
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Agreed. Everyone thinks they are too smart to get scammed, but all it takes is a second.
Comments in the article are interesting.
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their armpit hair. Bastidges.
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Sooner or later they’ll get busted. It’ll be hard to keep them locked up until trial though....... bail, then whoosh, gone again.
Kiss them coins goodbye. Of course the perps are driving a newer suv, he paid for it.
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This is from the town in live in. Store is 2 miles from my house. It’s mostly jewelry now vs a real coon store like it was a decade ago.
Doubt they try the other store in town...both guys have side arms on their belts.
Latin American Collection
Duh “coon” perps
The description in the article, “The male suspect is described as a short Hispanic male, approximately 30-35 years of age with a short-medium build, with short black hair, a goatee and wearing a gold watch.”
Kind of matches the male who was caught in NY (see thread below) note the goatee and the gold-colored something on the right wrist. I guess he bailed out.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1003423/numismatic-crime-unsavory-characters/p2
Seems to be the same group....MO basically the same.....No reason that any coin dealers should not be aware of this by now....been all over the network. Cheers, RickO
Apples and oranges. Getting robbed by force is something you can’t control or really plan for.
We all get complacent. Just not wise to do it with $10K on the table.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
How secure were the coins displayed?
how easy was it physically to grab the items?
Dealers might have to follow the banks examples: put the coin in to a plastic flip---sealed, together with a dye.
unless you have the right "tool" (whatever the tool might be, and u try and open the flip......puuuuffffffff the dye is all over you and the coin/
If a perp just pockets the item to "take it home", a sensor will alarm if the item is more than x-distance from the spot.
can be easy achieved with RIF sensors. I thinks insurance co would support that.
Above was just a spinning of my inventive mind
It's to the point where you've had to go out of your way to not know about this scam as a coin shop owner. Especially in this instance with insurance covering part of the blow (can't imagine that's always the case as different shops have different policies/coverage) I just can't feel bad. Can't stand seeing these crooks get away with this crap over and over when it's so preventable.
Apples and oranges like lying and cheating.
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Coin dealers are like politicians
And criminals are like heroes. I got it.
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OMG, terrible !!!
You can do your best to prevent it. If it happens you can do your best to respond to it just like my father did. Had he not planned for the possibility I'd have been orphaned as a teen.
No one else ever suffered again at the hands of this violent armed criminal. My father killed him with one shot.
My dad is a healthy 87 now. He and my mom will soon celebrate their 60th Anniversary. So much would have been lost had he not been prepared.
I love a happy ending.
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So do I.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
People seem to be confusing violent armed criminals with people who are able to take advantage of lax security protocols. If you were to shoot one of these con men you would be charged most likely with murder. Shooting unarmed people is against the law.
Agreed. Everyone thinks they are too smart to get scanned, but all it takes is a second.> @3stars said:
You mean robbery isn't a capital offense?
It’s not robbery, it’s theft. Robbery involves physical assault or threat of violence. What these con men are doing is theft.
Even if there were a robbery rather than a theft, in the absence of a first degree murder, I don’t believe it would be a capital offense.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Welcome back Mark Feld!!!
I’m not a lawyer but it would seem to depend on the continuum of force and your ability to escape. If a robber uses a gun or knife in the commission of the crime in your home/ establishment and you can’t escape you could use lethal force to protect life or property (check the laws in your area). Not sure if castle laws extend to a place of business, but seems logical to me.
I’d imagine most businesses tell their employees to give the robber the valuables and call the police rather than have them fight back and risk injury or death though. It’s just stuff or money, that’s what business insurance is for.
No question. I was replying to the post quoted in my post. I'm sure the others were saying that they liked the happy ending to my dad's story and not in any way that they would advocate shooting these thieves. That would be, as your note, murder.
This guy had a loaded gun jammed into the back of my mother's head. My dad hit a silent hold up alarm the second the robber pulled his gun. The police got there quickly. Still, by the time they did it was all over. As many cops say - when seconds count the police are only minutes away.
The circumstances in my parents case were crystal clear. It was very quickly ruled justifiable. The police were extremely good to my folks. They were also extremely happy at how it turned out. The good folks won for a change.
Incredibly, my dad was on crutches at the time from a serious leg fracture from an accident. He only had one hand to shoot using his small J frame .38. He's was an accomplished shooter. Thank G-d. What he did was incredibly impressive. Many of the Balto City cops told him just that. This incident happened only a few blocks from where the Whitman Baltimore coin show is held.
My comment pertained to “capital offense” and “theft”, as opposed to “robbery”. I wasn’t speaking about what type of self defense might be legal.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
These thieves professional shoplifters / thieves. I feel for the victims and sure hope perps caught / ended with shot gun blast.
When showing customers, especially strangers material be very careful not have multiple items out at once.
I don’t care if it’s Lord Knowitall from Coinland or Mr Popular Dealer they all like. Yell at them “Get away from my table, don’t come back, and that’s
forever.” Believe me it works.
Be suspicious of multiple players especially if trying to use high pressure, fast paced distraction. At my table I play by my rules, who they are in Coinland, flashing money or whatever means ZERO to me.
No matter how much you need the money don’t let them distract or play their BS game with you. One thing I keep my cases locked even when behind it so some jerk can’t come along and open.
I was the target of an incredibly well-executed (non-coin related) scam that played out yesterday. In the end, all I lost was about an hour of my time but I fell for this one hook, line, and sinker before I eventually came to my senses. I lay the blame here exactly where it lies - with the bad guys. Sure, the dealer could have been a little smarter, but some of these guys are good. The wannabe scammers did an incredible amount of research prior to contacting me.
>
Care to share?
Do you have a solid alibi?
Not really. The stuff these guys were coming up with made sense at the time, but there's no way to explain it that doesn't involve me looking like a complete dolt.
In retrospect, for a short time at least, I was a complete dolt. Thankfully I figured it out, but I dare say many others would have swallowed the hook.
As I said before, it wasn't a random attack. These guys did probably 30-45 minutes of research before calling me (probably all from stuff available on the Internet) and they knew an incredible amount about me and other people in the local area. My initial due-diligence efforts to verify what he was saying all checked out.
Even the most street-smart individual can fall for that 1 scam in 100 that doesn't set off the internal BS-O-meter.
Never do anything over the phone if they call you. Always take down their information and look up a valid phone number from the company website (or visit in person if a local branch / office exists) and call them back. Don't call any number that the phone caller gives you as its fake as well. It is way too easy nowadays to spoof a correct phone number on caller ID as well.
You are well within your rights to deny any caller any info requests, especially if you we not expecting a call from the company / person in the first place.
The only questionable point:
"The staff talked is taking steps to help prevent future thefts, Hocevar said."
Huh?
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Police do care when they can act quickly. Police arrived at my door within an hour in an check fraud incident. But he was hot on the trail of the scammer who had jumped bail and was on the run.
In my experience police are overwhelmed so it's doubful anything will happen to them until apprehended in the act. Across jurisdictions, across state lines, nobody will care enough. It's victimless petty crime.
I solved a couple of other incidents with just some armchair sleuthing on Google and Facebook.
In one case of check fraud involving my brother, my Bank didn't care nor did the investigating officer. Found him on FB under the name he used for his roofing company. NUTHIN'
Lastly, in what had been an annoyance of getting strangers mail mail at work, I had luckily received three CC's of one of the victims... for only about... oh... $25K
Spidey senses tingled... called the CC'sand alerted them. Eventually got in contact with the victim.
We worked at both ends with police and USPS... He was one of dozens... was finally told by local PD it's not identity theft until the scammer used the credit card.
Wha wha What?
I located many victims in less than an hour. From LA, Boston, and PA.
From the arrest of the one guy, some internet sleuthing should be able to uncover associates. Nobody can hide in the digital world.
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Especially, the digital under-world. Breakout the Tor.
https://coinweek.com/bullion-report/iran-executes-sultan-of-coins-for-hoarding-gold-coins/
liars & thefts are dispicable and this ugliness really bothers me. How sad and disgusting.
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