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Educate me about surface finish
mdtoka
Posts: 19 ✭
New guy again. Thanks for the advice on searching GreatCollections for certified coins and thought I'd learn some more.
Found this XF-45 Standing Liberty and it seems like a good example. 
How do you distinguish between good honest toning and environmental damage on a coin like this?
Thanks.
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Damage suggests that the surface has been irretrievably altered. Frankly, environmental damage is just the end result of runaway good honest "toning". It's all metal oxidation or sulfurization. A light coating is normal. When it reaches the point that the surface is etched, you are in "damage".
The harder thing is "natural toning" vs. "artificial toning". You can find about 1,000 threads discussing that.
Welcome!
Thanks for the reply.
Setting aside the fact that it's been certified, if I'm looking at the coin above, I'm comforted by the pattern in the fields and devices that it hasn't been cleaned. As for toning, I'm more aware of a uniform outside to in toning patterns. This seems blotchy. I worry about what is causing the dark spots.
I'm not used to seeing this with silver coins.
As an aside, I gravitate towards these type of coins. I like a healthy patina.
The toning on that coin is original but not eye-appealing. Eye-appeal is of exceptional importance in today's coin market. Avoid coins with below average eye appeal unless the price is so low it just screams "buy me".
Good point.
At this phase in my disease I'm much more of a hoarder than an investor. I haven't prioritized resale value yet.
I've been staying away from the rainbow tones so I don't get trampled by the crowd shouting take my money! The sexiest toning I have is on a MS52 Barber quarter and it was not cheap!
Before you get too deeply into "toned coins" I suggest you take some of your purchases to a coin show and see what you are offered for them. Don't be surprised if you hear "It just isn't what I am looking for" when you try to sell. This is the response I received at the 2004 ANA Pittsburgh show when I tried doing exactly that.
The grade seems about right, but the eye appeal just is not there.
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LOL.
I love SLQs and I love toning, but this look is one I would pass over without serious consideration. I’m sure it appeals to some, but not me.
In terms of surface evaluation, to me it comes down to luster. Even heavily toned coins will show luster if you look carefully, but tarnish/toning/corrosion that has effaced the flow lines cannot be recovered or restored.
On this coin, the little black spots on the reverse might represent very limited areas of pitting corrosion - but it has not progressed to the point that most would call it environmental damage. JMO.
As you mentioned the slab will almost eliminate the possibility of cleaning. You may know this already but some collectors/dealers cover up cleaning by dumping coins in an album for a few years. So can’t just go by toning patterns to see if it’s been cleaned. Have to look for hairlines - nearly impossible without the coin in hand. Good return policy is your best bet on raws that you’re not sure about before looking at them in person.
There are a great many collectors on this forum who are obsessed with originality. Originality is okay so long as the piece has some esthetic virtues.
Not all natural toning is attractive. Some of it is too dark and blotchy. Some toning interferes with the viewer’s ability to enjoy the design elements of the coin. Some original toning has gone too far. On Mint State and Proof coins, toning can destroy the mint luster and make the coin undesirable, at least to my eye. You can’t see the mint luster or Proof mirrors showing though the toning in a strong light, it’s not a nice a coin in my opinion. Black is not a good color for silver coinage. It is corrosion in my opinion.
If a spot has gone into the surface of the coin, that is not good at all in my opinion. I don’t mind some copper spotting on gold piece, but if the spotting gets below the surface and becomes a pit, that is a huge negative for me.
Some of what some people view has “natural,” “original” or “attractive” is not any of those things. Some it is the result of a piece having been dipped and improperly rinsed after the dipping was done. Such coins can stabilize, but a few of them will continue to tone. In the worst of all cases, the acid that was used in the dip with continue until it has destroyed the coin. Those cases are not common, but I’ve seen it happen, especially with copper.
If you see a “white silver coin” in an old holder and the price seems fair, don’t afraid to buy the piece if you like it. There are still a lot of collectors out there who don’t find toning, especially dark toning attractive.
This is all great stuff guys. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I don't think I'll be someone to "chase the rainbow". Esthetically I seem to be attracted to either MS "white" silver or well defined copper/nickel AU coins.
The quarter in the OP is -IMO - quite unattractive....Looks more like residue than tarnish. In today's market, eye appeal is critical....and that one will not get a lot of votes. Cheers, RickO
I will second the motion that you try to sell a few coins before you buy many. It's a real eye opener when you are on the selling end. The coin above has zero eye appeal and will be a hard sell someday.
The coin in the picture was for example only. I have no desire to buy it. I'd be fine with an XF coin but this one I posted because it had such odd patina and posed the question how you draw the distinction between toning and environmental damage based on a picture.