Doesn't surprise me at all! They F'd me the 1st time I attended 15-20 years ago and haven't been back. Ya reckon that $50 they screwed me out of came back to them...15+ years of tables they could have sold me!
Last year's Tyler Coin Club Show was the first show where we had exhibits and they were really appreciated by the public, especially those who were new to collecting. Of course, we did not charge a fee. What a silly move by CNSN.
With 35-45 exhibitors, the $75 fee will only net around $3K. It seems like a lot of ill will and bad publicity for $3K.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I usually don’t go to the exhibit area as I am too busy running around the bourse floor. That said, I know that many exhibitors are very proud of what they have put together over the years and it’s ridiculous and a slap to their face to have to make them pay money in order to show their coins that hopefully will teach the newbies and the well versed collector something new. Oh well.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
This is the first I've heard about the situation and I have no inside information. Anyway, the $75 fee to the Lockwood Fund should be close to meaningless to CSNS. On the other hand, the space that is freed up by attracting fewer exhibitors would be quite valuable (to CSNS) if it can be filled with more dealer tables at maybe $750 apiece.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If you are going to piss off people for $75 you might as well have made it $100. If you are going to insult someone at least do it right
What a dumb policy
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Perhaps all the would be exhibitors should band together and demand they be paid to exhibit their coins! After all it is an attraction for the show....not the other way around!
That seems counter productive. Exhibits take a lot of work on the part of the collector and provide educational - and attractive - components to a show. I agree with @amwldcoin...It makes more sense to pay the exhibitors for their efforts. Cheers, RickO
40 years or so ago, FUN and CSNS would about equal
as far as importance for dealers to attend. No Longer
I stopped doing the Central States Show about 6 years
ago for a few reasons, one of which was their hard-line
insistance about staying till their deadline, having coins
in the cases till the very end, and their enforcement
policies. Changing to Shambourg didn't help.
If the reason is to free up space for paying bourse
tables, that's very short-sighted, and CSNS doesn't
need the money - they have plenty in their Treasury.
Exhibitors do it for free, to educate and share -
Judges do their thing for free, to help educated
both exhibitors and the collecting public.
I'm a judge for the ANA and FUN - and I'm SS -
Stunned at the Stupidity.
(unless their Board comes out publicly and gives
us a good reason for the move)
If I were either a Judge or an Exhibitor at the
CSNS show, I'd tell them that $25 each for the
judges and exhibitors would be a fair distribution
of the $75 - making it cost free for exhibitors, and
embarrassing for the Club to then net $25 per
exhibit for this policy - they'd look even more petty
than they do now.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
One more consideration: What has been the quality of exhibits in recent years? Have there been too many uninteresting or haphazard exhibits by people just wasting a free resource? Is the fee meant to discourage those who don’t take their exhibits more seriously?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@ricko said:
That seems counter productive. Exhibits take a lot of work on the part of the collector and provide educational - and attractive - components to a show. I agree with @amwldcoin...It makes more sense to pay the exhibitors for their efforts. Cheers, RickO
The fees are contributed to an exhibit award fund, so some of the exhibitors actually do get paid.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@ricko said:
So, the exhibitors contribute to an award fund, then hope they win some of the fund? Interesting...Cheers, RickO
The award funds are a relatively minor consideration to exhibitors. It probably takes most of them hundreds or thousands of dollars in time and supplies to mount a serious exhibit. They’re not doing it for the money.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka.... I know that is correct.... For most of them, it is the culmination of their hobby... and certainly worthy of display. The quality of those displays is really great. Cheers, RickO
@ricko said:
So, the exhibitors contribute to an award fund, then hope they win some of the fund? Interesting...Cheers, RickO
The award funds are a relatively minor consideration to exhibitors. It probably takes most of them hundreds or thousands of dollars in time and supplies to mount a serious exhibit. They’re not doing it for the money.
Exactly, thus making the exhibitors pay $75 and guilting them inti staying at “their” hotel all the more insulting. Maybe those with exhibits that don’t win should have to pay $150.
In no universe does this make sense
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
CSNS has had problems for awhile now. The importance of the show has been slipping. Judging from the comments here, this move is not going to help things.
Well intentioned? I don't know.
Well received? We know the obvious answer.
Is this good for Central States? Don't think so.
I personally don't like the perceived drop in popularity for the show the past few years.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
I would really like to hear from someone who remembers the exhibits from last year. (My memories are fuzzy. I do remember a couple of the great exhibits, but I also vaguely remember some very large and unimpressive exhibits.)
Even better, I'd love to hear comments from those involved in making the decision.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
This does not suprise me at all! I have talked to people in that club and people on the show committee. They nickel and dime everything. I would never do that show
@MorganMan94 said:
I would certainly hate to see CSNS start to go downhill as it is the only large show I get the opportunity to attend.
Same here. The ANA Summer Show is in Rosemont this year, so there is another option (but since it’s not always here, CSNS is the largest yearly show we have in Illinois). However seeing the trajectory of Illinois in general, it’s no surprise that the show is mirroring what’s happening in the state.
@MorganMan94 said:
I would certainly hate to see CSNS start to go downhill as it is the only large show I get the opportunity to attend.
Same here. The ANA Summer Show is in Rosemont this year, so there is another option (but since it’s not always here, CSNS is the largest yearly show we have in Illinois). However seeing the trajectory of Illinois in general, it’s no surprise that the show is mirroring what’s happening in the state.
Did not know that, thanks! I will have to look into that show.
I am from Iowa so I thankfully I can avoid Illinois for about all but one week a year.
@MorganMan94 said:
I would certainly hate to see CSNS start to go downhill as it is the only large show I get the opportunity to attend.
Same here. The ANA Summer Show is in Rosemont this year, so there is another option (but since it’s not always here, CSNS is the largest yearly show we have in Illinois). However seeing the trajectory of Illinois in general, it’s no surprise that the show is mirroring what’s happening in the state.
Did not know that, thanks! I will have to look into that show.
I am from Iowa so I thankfully I can avoid Illinois for about all but one week a year.
The objects of this society shall be to advance the knowledge of numismatics along educational, historical and scientific lines; to promote greater popular interest in the
science of numismatology and promoting a friendly feeling for one another through a
social gathering; to aid its members in the study, acquisition, exhibition, use and
preservation of numismatic material
If their rationale for the $75 fee is that they want to sell more bourse tables, shame on them, then apparently they aren't a club any longer, they are a for-profit business.
I know it's challenging to run a show but if you are a club show, I think you have an obligation to provide educational content alongside your big money-making show. And you don't charge people who have prepared such materials for the ability to help support your stated aims as an organization.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
That'll cost you $72.50 + $2.50 for the showcase
to put the loose coins into.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
A nominal exhibit fee doesn’t seem like a big deal. In other fields, such as scientific conventions, it is customary to pay a fee for the venue and setup materials they provide, as well as the privilege of being judged/examined.
On the other hand, strong-arming you to stay in their hotel is kind of petty.
I spend about 30 hours on each Winter FUN exhibit that I display. For that I get a chance to educate my fellow collectors, a one ounce commemorative silver round and a chance to win a prize that is usually worth $100 or more. At Central States you spend all of that time and then have to pay them a $75 fee.
As the Irish put it, "They have a lot of crust."
The clear message from the leadership of the Central States Convention. "We don't want to bother with exhibits any more." I get the message. I've only been to one Central States show. I won't be back for another.
@Nap said:
A nominal exhibit fee doesn’t seem like a big deal. In other fields, such as scientific conventions, it is customary to pay a fee for the venue and setup materials they provide, as well as the privilege of being judged/examined.
On the other hand, strong-arming you to stay in their hotel is kind of petty.
There is a BIG difference. When you pay to exhibit at one of those venues, you expect to get at least some recognition in your field and probably a some income or a profit from the publicity. When you exhibit at a coin show, you don't get much of anything except a vote of thanks from the people who are running the exhibit area and perhaps a thank you gift.
There is a huge difference.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@COINS MAKE CENTS said:
This does not suprise me at all! I have talked to people in that club and people on the show committee. They nickel and dime everything. I would never do that show
I have heard complains from a few dealers who say they will never do that show again because of the way they were treated by the organizers.
I know some club organizations are struggling to survive. It sounds like these guys have a death wish.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Hello! I told everyone a long time ago-CSNS is a PRIVATE show-not a club show any more.
I actually like collectors displays at any show. I think charging is cheesy to the nth degree. I'm sure they are charging what a table really costs them. I believe displaying coins at shows is really educational and is rewarding to the collector.
Let me see if I can help out here. I know a few people.....
It might be time for me to allow my membership to expire. I do not like the "attitude" of an organization that seems to stifle education and knowledge. The Author Grants program resulted in many new articles and information becoming available to collectors. A large chunk of NARA US Mint documents from the General Correspondence files were digitized through CSNS grants. (Files available free from NNP's website.)
Lots of things changed after Ray Lockwood passed away on March 29, 2018,
giantsfan20
Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
Why not simply put up a large sign saying "No Education - Greed Only"
They would have to pay me much, much more to attend the show. Who are they kidding?
In my 58 years in numismatics, this is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard!
Doesn't surprise me at all! They F'd me the 1st time I attended 15-20 years ago and haven't been back. Ya reckon that $50 they screwed me out of came back to them...15+ years of tables they could have sold me!
That so beyond stupid and despicable. For $75, I'd give them my "full moon" exhibit.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Last year's Tyler Coin Club Show was the first show where we had exhibits and they were really appreciated by the public, especially those who were new to collecting. Of course, we did not charge a fee. What a silly move by CNSN.
With 35-45 exhibitors, the $75 fee will only net around $3K. It seems like a lot of ill will and bad publicity for $3K.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
That is harsh and a venom filled article too.
I feel bad for the participants who look forward to exhibiting their hard work.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Disgusting!
Makes me rethink my membership in CSNS!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
No way I’d play that game. Greedy & moronic. I’d boycott the whole show if I had planned on exhibiting.
I usually don’t go to the exhibit area as I am too busy running around the bourse floor. That said, I know that many exhibitors are very proud of what they have put together over the years and it’s ridiculous and a slap to their face to have to make them pay money in order to show their coins that hopefully will teach the newbies and the well versed collector something new. Oh well.
Where is the “GRRRRR!” Button?
Whew! For a moment I thought that this was about the Colorado Springs Numismatic Society coin show coming up in Jun 2019.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
This is the first I've heard about the situation and I have no inside information. Anyway, the $75 fee to the Lockwood Fund should be close to meaningless to CSNS. On the other hand, the space that is freed up by attracting fewer exhibitors would be quite valuable (to CSNS) if it can be filled with more dealer tables at maybe $750 apiece.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Does this one work for you?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
If you are going to piss off people for $75 you might as well have made it $100. If you are going to insult someone at least do it right
What a dumb policy
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It'll be interesting to see how many exhibits the show will have. It wouldn't surprise me if it were a single digit number.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Is there a reaction to adblockers? I click the link, see the article for a second, then the screen goes blank.
IMHO this is a colossal bonehead move.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Perhaps all the would be exhibitors should band together and demand they be paid to exhibit their coins! After all it is an attraction for the show....not the other way around!
That seems counter productive. Exhibits take a lot of work on the part of the collector and provide educational - and attractive - components to a show. I agree with @amwldcoin...It makes more sense to pay the exhibitors for their efforts. Cheers, RickO
40 years or so ago, FUN and CSNS would about equal
as far as importance for dealers to attend. No Longer
I stopped doing the Central States Show about 6 years
ago for a few reasons, one of which was their hard-line
insistance about staying till their deadline, having coins
in the cases till the very end, and their enforcement
policies. Changing to Shambourg didn't help.
If the reason is to free up space for paying bourse
tables, that's very short-sighted, and CSNS doesn't
need the money - they have plenty in their Treasury.
Exhibitors do it for free, to educate and share -
Judges do their thing for free, to help educated
both exhibitors and the collecting public.
I'm a judge for the ANA and FUN - and I'm SS -
Stunned at the Stupidity.
(unless their Board comes out publicly and gives
us a good reason for the move)
If I were either a Judge or an Exhibitor at the
CSNS show, I'd tell them that $25 each for the
judges and exhibitors would be a fair distribution
of the $75 - making it cost free for exhibitors, and
embarrassing for the Club to then net $25 per
exhibit for this policy - they'd look even more petty
than they do now.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
One more consideration: What has been the quality of exhibits in recent years? Have there been too many uninteresting or haphazard exhibits by people just wasting a free resource? Is the fee meant to discourage those who don’t take their exhibits more seriously?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The fees are contributed to an exhibit award fund, so some of the exhibitors actually do get paid.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
So, the exhibitors contribute to an award fund, then hope they win some of the fund? Interesting...Cheers, RickO
The award funds are a relatively minor consideration to exhibitors. It probably takes most of them hundreds or thousands of dollars in time and supplies to mount a serious exhibit. They’re not doing it for the money.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka.... I know that is correct.... For most of them, it is the culmination of their hobby... and certainly worthy of display. The quality of those displays is really great. Cheers, RickO
$75 for a newly created Endowment fund but will receive credit if $ given to Memorial fund.
Memorial fund vs. an Endowment fund. Each has its own rules and purposes.
Exactly, thus making the exhibitors pay $75 and guilting them inti staying at “their” hotel all the more insulting. Maybe those with exhibits that don’t win should have to pay $150.
In no universe does this make sense
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
CSNS has had problems for awhile now. The importance of the show has been slipping. Judging from the comments here, this move is not going to help things.
Well intentioned? I don't know.
Well received? We know the obvious answer.
Is this good for Central States? Don't think so.
I personally don't like the perceived drop in popularity for the show the past few years.
Pete
I would really like to hear from someone who remembers the exhibits from last year. (My memories are fuzzy. I do remember a couple of the great exhibits, but I also vaguely remember some very large and unimpressive exhibits.)
Even better, I'd love to hear comments from those involved in making the decision.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Get handgun, aim at foot, pull trigger.
stupidity at its best. some thing tells me they is going to regret that
I would certainly hate to see CSNS start to go downhill as it is the only large show I get the opportunity to attend.
It already has.
This does not suprise me at all! I have talked to people in that club and people on the show committee. They nickel and dime everything. I would never do that show
HAPPY COLLECTING
Not if you have only been attending two years
Same here. The ANA Summer Show is in Rosemont this year, so there is another option (but since it’s not always here, CSNS is the largest yearly show we have in Illinois). However seeing the trajectory of Illinois in general, it’s no surprise that the show is mirroring what’s happening in the state.
Did not know that, thanks! I will have to look into that show.
I am from Iowa so I thankfully I can avoid Illinois for about all but one week a year.
Here is the link for the ANA show in August:
https://www.money.org/worldsfairofmoney
The CSNS Constitution states, in part:
If their rationale for the $75 fee is that they want to sell more bourse tables, shame on them, then apparently they aren't a club any longer, they are a for-profit business.
I know it's challenging to run a show but if you are a club show, I think you have an obligation to provide educational content alongside your big money-making show. And you don't charge people who have prepared such materials for the ability to help support your stated aims as an organization.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Here's my display for them.
That'll cost you $72.50 + $2.50 for the showcase
to put the loose coins into.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
I was considering going this year, now I am having second thoughts. Very sad that the committee has succumbed to Greed.
A nominal exhibit fee doesn’t seem like a big deal. In other fields, such as scientific conventions, it is customary to pay a fee for the venue and setup materials they provide, as well as the privilege of being judged/examined.
On the other hand, strong-arming you to stay in their hotel is kind of petty.
I spend about 30 hours on each Winter FUN exhibit that I display. For that I get a chance to educate my fellow collectors, a one ounce commemorative silver round and a chance to win a prize that is usually worth $100 or more. At Central States you spend all of that time and then have to pay them a $75 fee.
As the Irish put it, "They have a lot of crust."
The clear message from the leadership of the Central States Convention. "We don't want to bother with exhibits any more." I get the message. I've only been to one Central States show. I won't be back for another.
There is a BIG difference. When you pay to exhibit at one of those venues, you expect to get at least some recognition in your field and probably a some income or a profit from the publicity. When you exhibit at a coin show, you don't get much of anything except a vote of thanks from the people who are running the exhibit area and perhaps a thank you gift.
There is a huge difference.
I have heard complains from a few dealers who say they will never do that show again because of the way they were treated by the organizers.
I know some club organizations are struggling to survive. It sounds like these guys have a death wish.
Thirty pieces of silver?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
MORE DUMBER
Dave
Hello! I told everyone a long time ago-CSNS is a PRIVATE show-not a club show any more.
I actually like collectors displays at any show. I think charging is cheesy to the nth degree. I'm sure they are charging what a table really costs them. I believe displaying coins at shows is really educational and is rewarding to the collector.
Let me see if I can help out here. I know a few people.....
It might be time for me to allow my membership to expire. I do not like the "attitude" of an organization that seems to stifle education and knowledge. The Author Grants program resulted in many new articles and information becoming available to collectors. A large chunk of NARA US Mint documents from the General Correspondence files were digitized through CSNS grants. (Files available free from NNP's website.)
Lots of things changed after Ray Lockwood passed away on March 29, 2018,