4 Sharp Corners
softparade
Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
I sent 4 Sharp Corners a request for the back scan of a PSA 10 card they have up on e-bay. I did this because they provided just a front scan. This is the response I got hahaha ... straight up Bush League
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
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I have requested back scans too and got the same response. I think their customer service team has no actual access to the inventory, or they just don’t want to do it. You pick.
They do provide back scans on higher $ cards.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
This is just a minor league and lazy response. Quite the opposite of what you would expect from a big seller that gives a crap haha
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
This has nothing to do with PSA. It’s junkyard customer service.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
He’s right as rain.
Kevin
I guess they figure that it is not worth using 10-15 minutes of their time to look for, scan then email the card for a card that they are only going to make a couple dollars profit on.
I'm confused. Why would PSA care if someone has a legitimate complaint about 4SC? is there a relationship here that I'm unaware of? PSA is a third-party grader that is impartial to whom the submitter is.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
yea like I did in the last thread
I asked for scans on 2 cards recently.
1) an $1100.00 card I asked for a back scan and also mentioned I might/probably have bought it (true with 10% ebay bucks as card is slightly overpriced ) and specifically mentioned would not w/o a back scan . Response no scan - back is clean.
2) Probstein had a blazing 57 berra and I asked 2X for a back scan 6 days and 4 days before auction end. CS got back and said "would try." No scan. Bought card. Yup back is 90-10. When I wrote back to say now I know why I didn't get a scan Rick personally got back and apologized and said they were swamped and offered a full return w/ shipping. I do believe him. Kept card
IMO cards less that $20 don't need scans unless there is a problem. Cards $50 and over should always have a scan
with exception of newer high grade ones where production quality is so much better than vintage.
Adding scans avoids problems.
When I see a high priced card w/o a back scan I automatically thing what are they hiding?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I am going to add back scans to my listings today.
May not be a big deal to all but if some want it, I should include it.
Good tip - thanks...
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
One other pet peeve of mine with 4SC is their lack of communication around a shipment of an order.
This last order I received no email indicating it shipped. I eventually logged back in to my account and low and behold it shipped. Surprisingly a tracking number was provided too. It is rare on my orders that they provide a tracking number to me.
It was ordered on 12/30, but I have not seen it yet. USPS tracking is giving me my favorite line “Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility.”. USPS issue here, not 4SC.
I would stop using them if they weren’t the only ones with the cards I am looking for. Ah well...
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
The card I showed in question is under $20. I get it. It's a cheap card. But I don't accept the notion that I should just by something sight unseen. Scan both sides of the card.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
4SC is what it is. It’s fair to criticize but they're not going to change, so each collector has to decide whether or not they want to work within those parameters.
I'm just glad we are still allowed to look at the dozen eggs we buy.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I should probably add that I have had good experiences with 4SC. Not trying to single them out or trash them. But, is it really too much to ask on lower $ PSA 10 cards to see a scan? 9 or lower ... fine. I can deal with that. PSA 10's? Come on show both sides!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Service with some dealers has been pitiful and was discussing it privately with another board member the other day. A small private dealer (who I will not name) had some unopened items that he would send me info on and would send scans, and when I would want to buy them I would get crickets or not really wanting to sell. That is their right but first you need to decide are you a dealer(if you have a website and business cards and sell stuff I assume you are) or are you a collector. A dealer who does not sell items they send you info on with scans is not doing s very good job IMO 😉
KC
I think they are just biting off way more than they can chew in terms of the kind of customer service you expect. Not the way I would run a business, but I still buy from them because it meets my needs most of the time.
I bought a card from them off their website over the holiday. Somehow I paid for it with PP f&f. The only email I received was the invoice showing that I hadn’t paid. I logged in on the site and it did have a tracking number. Just got it, all is good. But I was worried since I didn’t get an email saying it shipped. There was added worry because it was a psa 8.5 listed for less than the same card in an 8 that they had on their site.
me too, didnt know back scans where that important
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
why dont they just scan front and back when they do the listings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Because of poor communication and customer service experiences 4SC remains my dealer of last resort.
Dave
I have bought some cards from their website and remember them having back scans. maybe there is a difference when you use their site vs ebay?
I remember back in the 90's when buying on ebay there often were no pictures at all, just descriptions. was the same way ordering cards out of magazine adds back in the 80's. no pictures, just grade descriptions.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
To be clear, I wouldn't have a beef on a card of this caliber not having a back scan if it was a 9. My main point is that any GEM MINT card should command the attention of a back scan.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
They don't do back scans because it would double their scanning work on a huge volume.
Obviously, based on sales, it's not a deal breaker for the vast majority of people.
They have made a calculated decision about whether to provide them if asked and decided the time it takes to find/scan/provide the back scan is less valuable than if used otherwise.
I wouldn't run my personal 100 item eBay store that way, but I do get it from a mega-card-corporation 'what's the raw bottom line?' standpoint.
meh, PSA 10's deserve it.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
There's always this alternative: https://ebay.com/usr/4_charp_corners?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
I don’t buy without a back scan. To me it is half the card. Occasionally will ask someone to send me one from EBay. Some do and some won’t.
Back scans are very important to an infinitesimal percentage of collectors. When you're able to sell 10's of thousands of cards to collectors with no back scans it's hard to justify doubling your time and expense of scanning backs for a few collectors who need confirmation that the card has a back.
I liked your response until your wise ass ending. Where's the middle finger emoji?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
https://ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=1978+doyle+alexander+psa+10&_sacat=0
There are currently 5 Alexanders on Ebay with the 4SC card priced at about $6 cheaper than the cheapest other example, and with combined shipping if buying a bunch it can be $9-$10+ cheaper than the others. Maybe the $25+ examples include back scans but most buyers of such cards do not care or need to see one to buy. They're also not looking to keep cards around for too long. So while they may lose a few sales to the back scan buyers, it's likely the next person searching for a card like that will not care about the back and will be hitting those BIN's like they're playing a video game.
id click it like its a video game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
It's the only graded set I'll ever collect probably. So I'm picky and good for me dammit! I'm going all unopened in the future I think.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
wait, you are collecting the 1978 in high grade?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Yes sir. #10 on the registry.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I ask sellers large and small on ebay for back side scans all the time, espcially for high end cards. If they fail to respond or give a no answer, i avoid and move on. Would you buy a car without looking under the hood or doing a full walk around? Same with cards.
I've never opened the hood on one car I've bought. (12 and counting)
I do know you can get a good look at a tbone by sticking your head up a bulls ass but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.
https://youtu.be/w7OrOk-ia4w
Kevin
I've called them before to help with a purchase issue, and their customer service was beyond perfect on the phone. I agree that they may fall short with back scans, but I can't say they would be a dealer of last resort. and on a side note, I pride myself on my sales, showing front and back and even magnified corner pictures. it is kinda lame they can't show back scans like other higher volume sellers. but they are probably the most high volume seller there is, so I can understand why they don't.
This would be a good analogy except there is one problem. You can't see a damn steak from the outside of a cow like you can see the back of a baseball card from the outside.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Many of you so easily accept this because they are a "volume" seller. It's a PSA 10 for Christ's sake. Scan the friggen back. This is their business. Not a hobby. I'm a volume seller in the roofing industry. I don't half ass my job because I'm busy lol
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I got a nice Christmas card from them signed by about a dozen people. I thought that was a nice touch.
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
FWIW, in no particular order, five of the highest volume sportscard sellers on ebay:
COMC: BIN format, all listings have back scans
PWCC: Auction format, all listings have back scans
4SC & their NESC offshoot: BIN format, with very few high-dollar exceptions, vast majority of listings do not have back scans
Probstein: Auction & BIN formats, with very few high-dollar exceptions, vast majority of listings do not have back scans
Burbank: BIN format, with even less high-dollar exceptions than Probstein, vast majority of listings do not have back scans
One thing to note here is that while this data does not show correlation with BIN vs. Auction format, it does show that the consigning services typically include back scans while the companies who own their inventory do not include them, with Rick being the outlying exception.
you really have a bee in your bonnet about this one. It is really a pretty simple answer. 4SC has a threshold below which they have determined providing back scans is not cost efficient for their business. apparently, the PSA 10 you are interested in is below that threshold. I guess you can continue to rant about it and they still won't change their policies or shop elsewhere. I really don't see the huge deal. lots and lots of places to shop. and I am pretty sure 4SC is not going to close down shop if you decide not to shop there any more.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Rant? I'm having fun son. There isn't a minute in a day that I don't have a giant smile on my face.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I hate to say it, but with the card in question (i.e., the exact card being sold by 4SC) I wouldn't be concerned about the back scan as much as what the front looks like. It's got issues that would force me to pass on it even without the back scan.
I'd go with this one https://ebay.com/itm/1978-TOPPS-146-DOYLE-ALEXANDER-PSA-10-194-WINS-TIGERS-1988-ALL-STAR/332982893247?hash=item4d8753babf:g:6nsAAOSw0-Ba-imu:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true
...or this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Topps-Doyle-Alexander-146-Gem-Mint-PSA-10/163475211740?hash=item260fe1c5dc:g:JI4AAOSwax5Yr8O0:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true
...and pay the premium. If you're collecting this set in high grade, and it's only going to happen once in your life, then go with the best card, rather than the cheapest card available at the time. Just my two cents. I hope you get the card you want.
Andy
Andy
Good stuff.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
well, you have 15 posts in your complaint thread. sure seems as though you didnt have a giant smile when you realized there was no back scan for that card. that is a lot of effort to go through for a $20 purchase. I would just move on to a different seller.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Broski, it's called a discussion. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discussion
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I am well aware darlin'
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Burbank doesn't even have front scans, only stock photos (mostly from Beckett) on every item from them I've looked at.
Ha! That's a little better than Centre Ice Collectibles a suppose, who doesn't even use stock photos on most of their items, and instead they resort to a generic clip art with a hockey theme.
amen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama