Review scenario question

Since I don't get much sleep at night, there always seem to be odd things going thru my head. I have never submitted a card for review so looking for some input here.
Now, others may disagree, but from what I can seen, the grading has changed a bit over the years. I'm going to use 1971 Topps and 1962 Topps baseball as my examples. It appears a card that was graded say 10 years ago or more that received an 8 probably wouldn't garner such a grade by today's grading standards from these two sets. Now, that's not saying ALL cards were graded higher and not deserving, but appears quite a few. So, what is the likely outcome if I submit two cards from the two separate grading eras for review, both in 8 holders when one looks significantly nicer than the other. Does the old get knocked down, the newer card bumped up or both stay in the same holder?
Just looking for opinions, input, experiences, etc. There is no wrong answer!!
Thanks!

Comments

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 479 ✭✭✭

    Reviews won’t decrease the grade. They can’t except in the most extreme circumstances. Only up.

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 260 ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019 7:26AM

    Only bumped down if they made an error in original grade, for which they would compensate you for the difference. That disincentive means they only do it in extreme circumstances as other poster stated.

    I dont think they would compensate if it was determined the card was damaged post encapsulation, but then again who would be sending that card in for review.

  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭✭

    @GreenSneakers said:
    Only bumped down if they made an error in original grade, for which they would compensate you for the difference. That disincentive means they only do it in extreme circumstances as other poster stated.

    I dont think they would compensate if it was determined the card was damaged post encapsulation, but then again who would be sending that card in for review.

    Yes, this would only be sending in cards that just show normal wear and not damage. I guess that if they look at a card that was graded 15 years ago under possibly a different grading standard that they could say that it was graded correctly....according to those standards?!? Even if said card would never get the same grade by today's standards.

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 479 ✭✭✭

    They don't look at cards to determine if graded correctly.

    They look for major issues--i.e. the case is cracked, it was in a fire, someone poured water all over it, etc.

    If there are extreme factors like those, it can be adjusted down.

    But not otherwise.

  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 760 ✭✭✭

    It is also important to note that cards can bump equally from any era. I've had just as many cards bump from newer flips as older flips. Good luck if you send cards for review!

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @MrHockey said:
    They don't look at cards to determine if graded correctly.

    They look for major issues--i.e. the case is cracked, it was in a fire, someone poured water all over it, etc.

    If there are extreme factors like those, it can be adjusted down.

    But not otherwise.

    This is not true. It is very rare, but it does happen and there are threads on this topic where it has happened. PSA describes in in the Financial Guarantee on their website. The relevant part follows:

    If PSA, in fact, concludes that the card in question no longer merits the PSA grade assigned or fails PSA’s authenticity standards, PSA will either:

    Buy the card from the submitter at the current market value if the card can no longer receive a numerical grade under PSA's standards or,

    Refund the difference in value between the original PSA grade and the current PSA grade if the grade is lowered. In this case, the card will also be returned to the customer along with the refund for the difference in value.

    The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on Sports Market Report and SMR Online values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA will be the sole determiner of the current market value.

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 479 ✭✭✭

    The part that you quoted describes exactly what I wrote.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭✭

    @MrHockey said:
    The part that you quoted describes exactly what I wrote.

    Yes, and the same goes for reholdering. They say explicitly that the card is automatically reholdered at the same grade unless there are signs of tampering or damage.

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 260 ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019 2:09PM

    The PSA guarantee explicitly excludes any item "which the PSA holder shows evidence of tampering; the Guarantee does not apply to any card that has been environmentally damaged due to improper storage or natural disasters".

    So the examples the two previous posters give (fire, tampering) do not fall under the guarantee where a downgrade could occur and the owner be compensated.

    The financial guarantee exists for PSA to take cards off the market where they "blew it" - ie, subsequently determined not to be authentic or the grader missed something major.

    It happens infrequently, but it does happen. There are threads on this where board members share their experiences, here is one of them:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/963438/ever-had-a-downgrade-on-a-psa-review

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 479 ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019 6:31PM

    No one said PSA would compensate you for a burnt card. We said that they would downgrade them in such an extreme instance and essentially never otherwise. Which is true.

    The examples in the other thread you linked were (1) PSA determined the card was altered (2) PSA damaged the card while in their possession. Neither is a case where PSA looks at a card they graded a 7 and thought "ehh this actually looks like a 6, time to downgrade". That basically does not happen.

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    Here is another thread, see the post by "Cardbender" where he sent his '60T Frank Robinson PSA 9 for reholdering, and it came back a 7 because of print dots that were missed in original grade.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10783773#Comment_10783773

    There are more threads where these examples come up that you can find in a search. I'm not arguing with anyone that this happens with any frequency. It is rare and wouldnt prevent me from sending in reholders. But to say it does not happen is inaccurate. If it never happened, there wouldnt be a need for PSA to have the financial guarantee.

    And in the other post, the card being altered was only caught because of the reholder, and in the second example, PSA themselves say they misgraded it (the owner is the one that says they damaged it, but PSA says they misgraded, which proves the point its something that they occasionally do).

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭✭

    I don’t think the print dots incident would happen today.

    “Please note: All items will be automatically reholdered UNLESS (1) the sonic weld on the PSA case shows signs of tampering or (2) the PSA case is fractured over the item itself. If the case is fractured over/near the item, it will be examined raw to ensure it has not sustained damage and that the original grade is still valid.”

  • I have a good handful of 8's I want to send in to be reviewed... I know this is always a debate.. but to preface I've been collecting for 45 years.. not saying I know it all.. but I have some sets on the registry, some I've submitted and some purchased.. I see lot of 9's that are real sliders.. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea on the possibility for bumps.. I'm talking odds percentages I've had some 8's bumped up to 8.5's... but I'm looking for 9's.. I have some phenomenal 8's. I'm talking HOFer's and very low pops.. and can I get a bulk rate.. anyone every go this route??

    I've also have some over graded.. Even though it had that 9 label I wasn't happy I was told PSA would make up the difference. They did admit it was an over graded 9.

  • gemintgemint Posts: 5,126 ✭✭✭

    I don't care much about the era of the holder. It's all about the quality of the card in question. There are a lot of pristine cards in older holders as that's when a lot of untouched sets and cards pulled from unopened packs were being graded. I can recall several submissions to the grader of death in the early 2000s. Unless a card was showing some obvious defect that they missed when they originally graded it, I wouldn't expect a card in an older holder to have any higher risk of downgrade than a card in a newer holder.

  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019 4:04PM

    @Mondelo said:
    I have a good handful of 8's I want to send in to be reviewed... I know this is always a debate.. but to preface I've been collecting for 45 years.. not saying I know it all.. but I have some sets on the registry, some I've submitted and some purchased.. I see lot of 9's that are real sliders.. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea on the possibility for bumps.. I'm talking odds percentages I've had some 8's bumped up to 8.5's... but I'm looking for 9's.. I have some phenomenal 8's. I'm talking HOFer's and very low pops.. and can I get a bulk rate.. anyone every go this route??

    I've also have some over graded.. Even though it had that 9 label I wasn't happy I was told PSA would make up the difference. They did admit it was an over graded 9.

    Whenever I submit for reviews I figure on about 25% success rate. I have had success getting 8's bumping to 9's and probably have about the same amount bump from 8 to 8.5. If your 8's are truly high-end 8's then I expect you would get a 25%-30% success rate. Good luck and keep us posted on the results.

  • secretstashsecretstash Posts: 959 ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019 4:50PM

    The market most are missing out on is bumping 9's to 10's. Could be pure luck, but my success of centered 9's by trying thrice has been inevitable. B)

  • Thanks men.. I'm gonna give it a go... take pictures to make sure what I send I get back..just sayin..

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