large companies check for counterfeits?

Gazes

Do large outfits like Apmex, DBS, Liberty, Pinehurst, etc check every gold bar or coin they sell to be authentic?

OPA

You would need to ask them directly, but my guess is that they do. Their reputation is at stake. That's true with all reputable sellers, including our host.

Timbuk3

Good question and I agree with OPA, too many possible liability issues if they aren't checked !!!

derryb

Most likely they are buying mint sealed boxes directly from world wide producers/mints or their authorized re-sellers.

No doubt they authenticate what they buy from the public.

MsMorrisine

apmex can buy directly from the us mint. Liberty, Pinehurst, Provident cannot.

jdimmick

Yes, they do. I was told they scan, and xray stuff.

I know Pinehurst Coins does, they check with sigma, they also have xrf as well, and probably some other techniques Im betting to make sure everything they sell is 100% right on.

Gazes

thanks for the responses. honestly I generally buy only from the big ones for the peace of mind

blitzdude

Sigma? lol easily fooled by plated metal.

Hemispherical

Here is the list of authorized purchaser who can buy direct from the US Mint. Subject to change at anytime.

——-

Authorized Purchasers of United States Mint Bullion Coins

UNITED STATES

A‑Mark Precious Metals, Inc.
El Segundo, California 90245
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

American Precious Metals Exchange (APMEX)
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73012
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

Coins & Things, Inc. (CNT)
Bridgewater, Massachusetts 02324
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas
Addison, Texas 75001
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

Fidelitrade, Inc.
Wilmington, Delaware 19802
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc.
Kenmore, New York 14217
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

Manfra, Tordella, & Brookes, Inc. (MTB)
New York, New York 10036
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

The Gold Center
Springfield, Illinois 62704
Silver Only

ScotiaMocatta (Scotia Bank)
New York, New York 10281
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

EUROPE

Bayerische Landesbank
Nürnberg, Germany D-90449
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

Deutsche Bank AG
Frankfurt, Germany
Silver, Gold, Platinum, Palladium

FAR EAST

Tanaka Kinkinzoku
TOKYO, 100-6422, Japan
Platinum

https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/bullion-authorized-purchasers.html

Mesh

@FSF said:
Yes. My main local bullion dealer checks every gold coin or bar that they buy. They spot check a fair amount of the silver as well. On the other hand, most B&M coin dealers seem to be completely unaware of the existence of Sigma Metalytics.

I was told by my lcs sigma is not 100%

OPA

FYI..A.P. Coin & Things, Inc ebay id is:

baypreciousmetals

Great company to buy from.

dennis1219

As someone who buys primarily slabbed bullion (PCGS,NGC), how likely is it to purchase counterfeit slabbed bullion with duplicate serial numbers? This is somewhat troubling.

OPA

@dennis1219 said:
As someone who buys primarily slabbed bullion (PCGS,NGC), how likely is it to purchase counterfeit slabbed bullion with duplicate serial numbers? This is somewhat troubling.

Avoid overseas sellers, especially the ones from China. In the US, it's a Federal Offense to sell counterfeit items.

davidk

@blitzdude said:
Sigma? lol easily fooled by plated metal.

First time I’ve heard this. Source?

Maybe you’re thinking of XRF scanners?

Unknown

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ricko

I have not heard that the Sigma machines were 'easily fooled' or inaccurate..... can anyone substantiate this? Cheers, RickO

asheland

Actually I have seen the Sigma fooled once by a heavily plated round (large round) but my friend's XRF scanned deeper revealing the copper core.

jdimmick

sigma is good, but not 100% I have one and have tricked the machine

mapleman

@OPA said:
FYI..A.P. Coin & Things, Inc ebay id is:

baypreciousmetals

Great company to buy from.

My issue is they ship only UPS on my purchases which is a pia for me. Pricing is fine as is cs.

BAJJERFAN

@MsMorrisine said:
apmex can buy directly from the us mint. Liberty, Pinehurst, Provident cannot.

Most of the APs have dealer pricing and retail pricing. Even if you're not a dealer you could probably get dealer pricing with a large enough order.

BAJJERFAN

@Gazes said:
Do large outfits like Apmex, DBS, Liberty, Pinehurst, etc check every gold bar or coin they sell to be authentic?

I would guess they check them from public sources. They'd be a fool if they didn't. If someone like Pinehurst bought from say APMEX they might spot check a few gold bars. I have sold gold Leafs and Eagles to a LCS and he just looked at them, but never PMVd them.

blitzdude

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Gazes said:
Do large outfits like Apmex, DBS, Liberty, Pinehurst, etc check every gold bar or coin they sell to be authentic?

I would guess they check them from public sources. They'd be a fool if they didn't. If someone like Pinehurst bought from say APMEX they might spot check a few gold bars. I have sold gold Leafs and Eagles to a LCS and he just looked at them, but never PMVd them.

Yep, I can't even remember the amount of times where I sold gold and silver to a dealer and they just took a quick glance and dropped it right in the for sale case. No loupe, no weight or dimension check, no xrf, no squat. Always the "I've been doing this for 50 years and I could spot a fake 10 miles away" types. Scary to think how many fakes they have unknowingly purchased and sold onto others. I certainly don't buy there. lol

Hemispherical

Old vid, but since the thread is about counterfeits...

Counterfeit Gold Bars in NY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bygCbP5PEKI