1893 Columbian Exposition So-Called Dollar by George Morgan - HK-154

Zoins

I'm a big fan of HK-154, George T. Morgan's Columbian Exposition So-Called Dollar. It is a common piece so I've had the opportunity to examine many of them. So when the lone ATS MS67 became available, I examined it, thought it really did stand out, and decided to upgrade my piece.

It's a pop 1/0 ATS who is the dominant grader for these. I've included the pops for both ATS and PCGS below. Any thoughts on how long it will take for another MS67 or higher to appear?

keets

Any thoughts on how long it will take for another MS67 or higher to appear

my only thought is on how long it will take for an MS67 to disappear --- one "at any grade cross-over" via PCGS is likely to accomplish that.

all kidding aside, my experience from the past few years is that PCGS tends to be in agreement with NGC on the grading of SC$'s so it is reasonable to expect others to surface which look as nice, too many were struck and saved.

abcde12345

Beautiful metal. NGC is about as strict on these as PCGS and vice versa so there is a stronger likelihood yours may cross if you so desire. The white slab makes for a nice presentation though.

Broadstruck

I've see a few MS65 and MS66's that look just as good.

So could be any day as I've been seeing gradeflation on exonumia on both sides of the street for a couple years now.

Zoins

@Broadstruck said:
I've see a few MS65 and MS66's that look just as good.

So could be any day as I've been seeing gradeflation on exonumia on both sides of the street for a couple years now.

I have a MS66 and MS65 already though one is a HK-155. In general prices in those grades are pretty good but all the ones I’ve seen so far, and I’ve seen a bunch to get those two, have some distraction I wasn’t crazy about. This is the best one I’ve seen so far which is why I was ok to get it.

That being said I know there’s some chance involved with the top pop condition rarity which is one reason for the post.

I don’t think we’ll get to major progress on comparing top condition pieces like these until we get something like PCGS CoinFacts or the ATS equivalent.

I might send this in for a PhotoVision. I probably won’t cross it until CoinFacts supports So-Called Dollars and PCGS gets a bit more traction for SCDs. I did and will still consider crossing the MS66 and MS65.

coinsarefun

I don't think it will take very long for the pop's to climb. Especially if/when SCD's become popular.
I have a MS66 that looks pretty good, I'll look and post it.

Zoins

That would be great @coinsarefun!

Part of this thread is to get estimates on how long it would take for another to show up.

Since people think it will happen, anyone have a guess? @Broadstruck says any day so it could be fun to monitor

ricko

There is just no way to predict when one will show up... just guesses....Certainly there could be one or more out there...maybe, maybe not.... Cheers, RickO

Zoins

@ricko said:
There is just no way to predict when one will show up... just guesses....Certainly there could be one or more out there...maybe, maybe not.... Cheers, RickO

I figure part of the fun of collecting is to not get so hung up on grades and top pops. But having one is fun, while it lasts!

I have some other top pops are are much more likely to remain that way. It’s easier when just not that many exist

Pioneer

I only have MS65s of these.... nice to see an MS67. I'd say in my SCD collection I might have 5-10 MS67 pieces... and I cannot recall having seen any MS68 SCDs... Maybe pose any MS67 or greater SCDs here to see what comes up? I'll look around thru my phots and maybe start a high-grade MS-67 or better SCD post if anyone thinks it worth the time... (?)

Zoins

@Pioneer said:
I only have MS65s of these.... nice to see an MS67. I'd say in my SCD collection I might have 5-10 MS67 pieces... and I cannot recall having seen any MS68 SCDs... Maybe pose any MS67 or greater SCDs here to see what comes up? I'll look around thru my phots and maybe start a high-grade MS-67 or better SCD post if anyone thinks it worth the time... (?)

I don't think all MS67s are created equal. Here is one where I thought there were too many marks on Jefferson's cheek for this grade for me.

emeraldATV

I have 2 currently with me although they were given to me to inquire about with you gentlemen . His intent is to sell with the knowledge I gather about all aspects, including donations

sry but micro photos only. full photos will follow soon

emeraldATV

bottom one is this sry about the hitchiker
He was not invited

keets

Here is one where I thought there were too many marks on Jefferson's cheek for this grade for me

those are unstruck planchet flaws which are on virtually every medal to some degree. they shouldn't affect the grade.

Lakesammman

I like it!

I thought Jefferson had rosacea.....

Zoins

@keets said:
Here is one where I thought there were too many marks on Jefferson's cheek for this grade for me

those are unstruck planchet flaws which are on virtually every medal to some degree. they shouldn't affect the grade.

PCGS uses the problem grade 93 for planchet flaws. Perhaps NGC isn’t as hard on planchet flaws in general or this one wasn’t severe enough to get net graded more? I don’t think it’s severe enough to not grade.

Either way, it affects the attractiveness of the piece for me. This is a pop 6/0 ATS so while I like this piece in general and bid on it, I didn’t mind not winning and waiting to see the other specimens. This is where the old CoinFacts would have been awesome.

keets

it isn't a "problem" that would result in a no-grade.

it is similar to the slight roughness seen on Jefferson's jawline on Nickels or the flatness on the reverse steps of the same coins. the relief is high and that area is the deepest part of the die. on HK-299/304 the reverse is especially flat(though raised off the fields) so that the portarait of Jefferson suffers metal flow problems.

shorecoll

Same as the Sesqui commem as well.

keets

yes, the roughness is similar to a lot of those.

Zoins

@keets said:
it isn't a "problem" that would result in a no-grade.

I wrote this piece isn’t severe enough to result in a no grade, but that some (more severe) planchet flaws are problems that do result in a no grade (enough that PCGS has a code for it), and it is less desirable for me at this grade. When paying the premium for a top pop, I think it’s important to like the piece and that is subjective. It depends on the specific pieces involved but I could prefer a piece a grade down without planchet flaws over a top pop with planchet flaws. Of course, sometimes I specifically choose a planchet flaw too if the flaw is severe and attractive enough, but that’s a different situation.

Zoins

Here's the current top pop 1/0 at PCGS, a MS66.

Something seems to be going on around the letters OVt in GOVt on the obverse at about 11 o'clock. I've seen a similar thing on some NGC slabbed pieces.

kbbpll

@Zoins I wonder if the GOVt stuff is associated with the reverse die about to explode.

Treashunt

@Zoins said:
Here's the current top pop 1/0 at PCGS, a MS66.

Something seems to be going on around the letters OVt in GOVt on the obverse at about 11 o'clock. I've seen a similar thing on some NGC slabbed pieces.

looks like a struck thru

BillJones

@Zoins said:

@Pioneer said:
I only have MS65s of these.... nice to see an MS67. I'd say in my SCD collection I might have 5-10 MS67 pieces... and I cannot recall having seen any MS68 SCDs... Maybe pose any MS67 or greater SCDs here to see what comes up? I'll look around thru my phots and maybe start a high-grade MS-67 or better SCD post if anyone thinks it worth the time... (?)

I don't think all MS67s are created equal. Here is one where I thought there were too many marks on Jefferson's cheek for this grade for me.

Maybe the grader thought that marks were on the planchet and not flattened when the medalet was struck.

This one in silver only got an MS-62. The late Steve Tannenbaum was going to send it back for a re-grade, but I bought it from him instead. I might have paid too much money, but it is nice.

Justacommeman

Nice pick up Zoins!

m