"Only in stupid-banker land does a liability that drains more cash from your pocket count as an asset. Roofs need replacing, electricity and oil are consumed, painting and mowing and plowing are all part of simply preventing this thing from rotting straight away into the ground. Mortgage interest, insurance and property taxes have to be paid or you will quickly lose ‘your’ house to some authority or another. You see any cash flying into your pockets during any of that? Me neither. Therefore your house is a liability. Assets are things that put cash in your pocket, liabilities take cash out. I don’t know about you, but my house is far from perfect except when it comes to taking cash out of my pocket. There it’s batting 1.000"
Any bankers here care to offer a rebuttal. LOL.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@derryb said:
collapse is a process, not an event. The camel's back can take one more straw. . . until it can't. The 22 trillion straws are gaining weight.
I often wonder how much debt can be accumulated before something catastrophic happens. How can this continue till infinity? Is there another currency lying in wait? I can't amass debt then apply for another CC, max that out, then another, etc. I get into debt I pay it off as fast as I can. I wish I had exited gold in Aug of 2011, guess I'll have to wait it out.
@derryb said: "Only in stupid-banker land does a liability that drains more cash from your pocket count as an asset. Roofs need replacing, electricity and oil are consumed, painting and mowing and plowing are all part of simply preventing this thing from rotting straight away into the ground. Mortgage interest, insurance and property taxes have to be paid or you will quickly lose ‘your’ house to some authority or another. You see any cash flying into your pockets during any of that? Me neither. Therefore your house is a liability. Assets are things that put cash in your pocket, liabilities take cash out. I don’t know about you, but my house is far from perfect except when it comes to taking cash out of my pocket. There it’s batting 1.000"
Any bankers here care to offer a rebuttal. LOL.
The equity in a house you live in is indeed an asset, the value of which can fluctuate up and down, or stay flat for years, just like gold, a stock, or a piece of art.
Of course there are ongoing costs, the alternative to which is Rent.
"Assets are things that put cash in your pocket" LOL sure, if all goes well with that asset. If your horse wins races, it will be profitable. If your horse loses races, it's still an asset, just a costly one.
Last crisis showed many people just what a liability a house can become. Many others, including the same ones, are about to see it again.
Technically, anything that has any value is an asset, even if it it's value is pennies. Personal homes are necessary expenses, just as is the new car that lost 20% of its value the moment you got it home.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@derryb said:
Last crisis showed many people just what a liability a house can become. Many others, including the same ones, are about to see it again.
Are you saying that because some folk lost money on their house purchase? If so, then would it not be fair to say that PMs have also proven to be a liability? Asking for a friend.
@cohodk said:
would it not be fair to say that PMs have also proven to be a liability? Asking for a friend.
Certainly! It costs money to ship them to and fro, and to insure them against loss or theft, it costs money to rent a Safe Deposit box at the bank or buy a safe at home to store them, it costs money to have them certified, and stickered, and photographed, it costs money for velvet bags and glass and wood display cases, it costs money to pay a doctor to xray and set my broken toe after I trip over them, and it costs money to pay a tax accountant to figure how much i lost by buying and holding them.
Haha. Love how everybody dukes it out when the silver spot price is below $20! Left glove: Theory. Right glove: Charts. Then watch as all align euphorically when spot goes above $40.
...watch as all align euphorically when spot goes above $40.
Yes, $40 silver would makes us smile--except for those who would still complain about suppression or manipulation or cite some
Cockamamie reference to real estate. Those folk will always be cantankerous and curmudgeonly.
🦄🦄🦄
@jmski52 said:
Speaking of $40, palladium is up $40, gold down $10, stocks up 600 pts.
I'm thinking of buying a stock. That will crash the stock market for sure.
Normally I would think you are kidding, talking about buying a stock, but I actually sense a bit of seriousness? What stock are you looking at? Come clean my man!
BL, I could give you any number of stock picks, but that doesn't mean they'd be good. I'm going to buy something for my grandson and I'll let you know once it's bought. Still waiting for confirmation that his account has been opened.
I might buy some for me, too. But it's unquestionably speculative. The stock market only gets a reprieve for a couple more days.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The FED is now apparently publicly accommodating the stock market with its decisions and its comments. Slippery slope, very slippery. Powell should stick to his economic guns and continue raising rates.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@jmski52 said:
BL, I could give you any number of stock picks, but that doesn't mean they'd be good. I'm going to buy something for my grandson and I'll let you know once it's bought. Still waiting for confirmation that his account has been opened.
I might buy some for me, too. But it's unquestionably speculative. The stock market only gets a reprieve for a couple more days.
Good deal, I wouldn't worry too much about getting the right pick, I'm sure all of us here have had some doozies. A third of my account is speculative, I try to mitigate the risk with cash and diversification. I usually learn more from my bad picks than good ones. Depending on how old your grandson is, he'll probably learn something as well.
I've decided that no matter how smart you think you are about X, no matter how much you learn and how much know, there're always people smarter and savvier about X than you.
@derryb said:
Hedging is a zero sum game. The best defense is a strong offense.
Teams with the #1 or 2 danked defense have won the Super Bowl 47% of time while teams with the #1 or 2 ranked offense have won 35%. That is statistically significant.
Hedging investments is very useful and productive. Unfortunately most do not know how to do so effectively. They then blame the investment or strategy, rather than themselves.
@derryb said:
The FED is now apparently publicly accommodating the stock market with its decisions and its comments. Slippery slope, very slippery. Powell should stick to his economic guns and continue raising rates.
I'm thinking they are finally seeing slowdown signs that the market sees. The market is complaining that the Fed is deaf to things like reports that foreign slow downs are causing usa weakness.
@derryb said:
The FED is now apparently publicly accommodating the stock market with its decisions and its comments. Slippery slope, very slippery. Powell should stick to his economic guns and continue raising rates.
I'm thinking they are finally seeing slowdown signs that the market sees. The market is complaining that the Fed is deaf to things like reports that foreign slow downs are causing usa weakness.
The U.S. Congress established three key objectives for monetary policy in the Federal Reserve Act: maximizing employment, stabilizing prices, and moderating long-term interest rates. Supporting speculation whether it be in the housing, equity or any other market should not be their concern. Their desire to fuel booms (to satisfy political pressures) always results in a bust. Speculators should be left to suffer their own losses - maybe they will learn something from it.
I would rather see them concerned about the whipping that the savers have been taking over the last ten years.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@derryb said:
The FED is now apparently publicly accommodating the stock market with its decisions and its comments. Slippery slope, very slippery. Powell should stick to his economic guns and continue raising rates.
I'm thinking they are finally seeing slowdown signs that the market sees. The market is complaining that the Fed is deaf to things like reports that foreign slow downs are causing usa weakness.
The U.S. Congress established three key objectives for monetary policy in the Federal Reserve Act: maximizing employment, stabilizing prices, and moderating long-term interest rates. Supporting speculation whether it be in the housing, equity or any other market should not be their concern. Their desire to fuel booms (to satisfy political pressures) always results in a bust. Speculators should be left to suffer their own losses - maybe they will learn something from it.
I would rather see them concerned about the whipping that the savers have been taking over the last ten years.
it's not about pumping or dumping the stock market.
the stock market sees economic signals that the FED does not see. Finally, the FED is listening to the market.... as part of the larger set of indicators... when judging where employment and inflation are heading.
Central banks were founded for one reason only: to save banks from bankruptcy, invariably at the cost of society at large. They’ll bring down markets and societies just to make sure banks don’t go under.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
You want to be right, no matter what, 100%? Do the opposite of whatever the gold crowd is selling. The great commodity of earth can only be sold at pawn shops and the three coin shops left in your metro population of 2 million. Brilliant strategy, hold gold to preserve your wealth and then go to sell at the only place that buys it in some seedy run down strip mall downtown.
@ARCO said:
You want to be right, no matter what, 100%? Do the opposite of whatever the gold crowd is selling. The great commodity of earth can only be sold at pawn shops and the three coin shops left in your metro population of 2 million. Brilliant strategy, hold gold to preserve your wealth and then go to sell at the only place that buys it in some seedy run down strip mall downtown.
I've sold over $750K in precious metals over the years and have never sold to a dealer, pawn shop or to some seedy run down strip mall store. There are plenty of other buyers willing to pay a fair price.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@ARCO said:
You want to be right, no matter what, 100%? Do the opposite of whatever the gold crowd is selling. The great commodity of earth can only be sold at pawn shops and the three coin shops left in your metro population of 2 million. Brilliant strategy, hold gold to preserve your wealth and then go to sell at the only place that buys it in some seedy run down strip mall downtown.
I've sold over $750K in precious metals over the years and have never sold to a dealer, pawn shop or to some seedy run down strip mall store. There are plenty of other buyers willing to pay a fair price.
@ARCO said:
You want to be right, no matter what, 100%? Do the opposite of whatever the gold crowd is selling. The great commodity of earth can only be sold at pawn shops and the three coin shops left in your metro population of 2 million. Brilliant strategy, hold gold to preserve your wealth and then go to sell at the only place that buys it in some seedy run down strip mall downtown.
I've sold over $750K in precious metals over the years and have never sold to a dealer, pawn shop or to some seedy run down strip mall store. There are plenty of other buyers willing to pay a fair price.
Sounds like a lot of counter-party risk.
Not if you know when to buy and when to sell.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@ARCO said:
You want to be right, no matter what, 100%? Do the opposite of whatever the gold crowd is selling. The great commodity of earth can only be sold at pawn shops and the three coin shops left in your metro population of 2 million. Brilliant strategy, hold gold to preserve your wealth and then go to sell at the only place that buys it in some seedy run down strip mall downtown.
I've sold over $750K in precious metals over the years and have never sold to a dealer, pawn shop or to some seedy run down strip mall store. There are plenty of other buyers willing to pay a fair price.
Sounds like a lot of counter-party risk.
Not if you know when to buy and when to sell.
The counter party risk im suggesting is the person on the otherside of those 750k in sales.
"Each credit and liquidity crisis starts out differently and ends up the same. Each crisis begins with distress in a particular over borrowed sector and then spreads from sector to sector until the whole world is screaming, “I want my money back!”
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Not the whole world db, some folks aren't leveraged, and just use the altered valuations as another opportunity to invest or rebalance assets. 2002-4 and 2009-12 were good times to do so, and we're well overdue for another. The recent correction helped, but could use more..
You don't have to be driving like a maniac for roadwork or an accident and congestion to "have an effect" on your commute, yet still, if you're paying attention and driving somewhat defensively, you don't slam into cars or run off the road, you just inch along until its clear again.
I kind of feel like never owning stocks or real estate because sometimes they go down and only "trusting" metals is like... only taking side streets and back roads because sometimes there is a traffic jam on the freeway.
I kind of feel like never owning stocks or real estate because sometimes they go down and only "trusting" metals is like... only taking side streets and back roads because sometimes there is a traffic jam on the freeway.
Maybe so. Nobody is debating the validity of portfolio rebalancing because frankly - it's a sound strategy.
The trust issue doesn't have much to do with the metals themselves. It is more a direct result of the world that keeps evolving all around us.
There is simply no reason to trust gov.com or Wall Street. Mileage may vary.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Human capital is vibrant, adaptive, resourceful, creative, inventive....on and on. That is what I invest in and believe in. Gold is beautiful to look at and hold, but it is a non producing asset. If your strategy is to make money when the system crashes, or the dollar collapses then you will have a rude awakening. Income producing assets will rise the same as gold in a dollar crash. In a collapse, you had better hope you don't end up dead within two weeks.
Before all that happens, your money is doing something earning something, growing, investing, contributing to the overall economy which we all are hoping does not collapse.
My father put all of his money in gold, bought into the fear. He sold his Seattle home back in 2005 or so because he was worried about riots when the system collapsed (I don't need to tell you how much his home would be worth now). Luckily he bought gold in the $400 - $800 range and it appreciated in price. Had he invested that money wisely in the larger market, he would have made much much more.
I have seen firsthand the outcome of the fear that the gold crowd peddles. Get some gold, it is wonderful to own, but don't buy it out of fear or worry.
Comments
2019: The Beginning Of The End
"Only in stupid-banker land does a liability that drains more cash from your pocket count as an asset. Roofs need replacing, electricity and oil are consumed, painting and mowing and plowing are all part of simply preventing this thing from rotting straight away into the ground. Mortgage interest, insurance and property taxes have to be paid or you will quickly lose ‘your’ house to some authority or another. You see any cash flying into your pockets during any of that? Me neither. Therefore your house is a liability. Assets are things that put cash in your pocket, liabilities take cash out. I don’t know about you, but my house is far from perfect except when it comes to taking cash out of my pocket. There it’s batting 1.000"
Any bankers here care to offer a rebuttal. LOL.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
I often wonder how much debt can be accumulated before something catastrophic happens. How can this continue till infinity? Is there another currency lying in wait? I can't amass debt then apply for another CC, max that out, then another, etc. I get into debt I pay it off as fast as I can. I wish I had exited gold in Aug of 2011, guess I'll have to wait it out.
@derryb said:
"Only in stupid-banker land does a liability that drains more cash from your pocket count as an asset. Roofs need replacing, electricity and oil are consumed, painting and mowing and plowing are all part of simply preventing this thing from rotting straight away into the ground. Mortgage interest, insurance and property taxes have to be paid or you will quickly lose ‘your’ house to some authority or another. You see any cash flying into your pockets during any of that? Me neither. Therefore your house is a liability. Assets are things that put cash in your pocket, liabilities take cash out. I don’t know about you, but my house is far from perfect except when it comes to taking cash out of my pocket. There it’s batting 1.000"
The equity in a house you live in is indeed an asset, the value of which can fluctuate up and down, or stay flat for years, just like gold, a stock, or a piece of art.
Of course there are ongoing costs, the alternative to which is Rent.
"Assets are things that put cash in your pocket" LOL sure, if all goes well with that asset. If your horse wins races, it will be profitable. If your horse loses races, it's still an asset, just a costly one.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Last crisis showed many people just what a liability a house can become. Many others, including the same ones, are about to see it again.
Technically, anything that has any value is an asset, even if it it's value is pennies. Personal homes are necessary expenses, just as is the new car that lost 20% of its value the moment you got it home.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Are you saying that because some folk lost money on their house purchase? If so, then would it not be fair to say that PMs have also proven to be a liability? Asking for a friend.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Certainly! It costs money to ship them to and fro, and to insure them against loss or theft, it costs money to rent a Safe Deposit box at the bank or buy a safe at home to store them, it costs money to have them certified, and stickered, and photographed, it costs money for velvet bags and glass and wood display cases, it costs money to pay a doctor to xray and set my broken toe after I trip over them, and it costs money to pay a tax accountant to figure how much i lost by buying and holding them.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Any asset can become a liability, especially if no one else wants it.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Especially if you hoard it with a cost basis that is higher than it's worth
Perhaps a good way to mitigate that risk is to buy an asset that has growing demand, tax advantages, and utilitarian value.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Haha. Love how everybody dukes it out when the silver spot price is below $20! Left glove: Theory. Right glove: Charts. Then watch as all align euphorically when spot goes above $40.
Loves me some shiny!
Yes, $40 silver would makes us smile--except for those who would still complain about suppression or manipulation or cite some
Cockamamie reference to real estate. Those folk will always be cantankerous and curmudgeonly.
🦄🦄🦄
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
If you're talking ebay: yes the system is collapsed. The thieves are among them. As to gold and silver , go long.
We'd all be singing kumbaya at $40 silver, I'd be selling every generic ounce this time, no fool me thrice!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Roger that, everything goes I'm done.
Speaking of $40, palladium is up $40, gold down $10, stocks up 600 pts.
I'm thinking of buying a stock. That will crash the stock market for sure.
I knew it would happen.
Normally I would think you are kidding, talking about buying a stock, but I actually sense a bit of seriousness? What stock are you looking at? Come clean my man!
BL, I could give you any number of stock picks, but that doesn't mean they'd be good. I'm going to buy something for my grandson and I'll let you know once it's bought. Still waiting for confirmation that his account has been opened.
I might buy some for me, too. But it's unquestionably speculative. The stock market only gets a reprieve for a couple more days.
I knew it would happen.
The FED is now apparently publicly accommodating the stock market with its decisions and its comments. Slippery slope, very slippery. Powell should stick to his economic guns and continue raising rates.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Good deal, I wouldn't worry too much about getting the right pick, I'm sure all of us here have had some doozies. A third of my account is speculative, I try to mitigate the risk with cash and diversification. I usually learn more from my bad picks than good ones. Depending on how old your grandson is, he'll probably learn something as well.
I've decided that no matter how smart you think you are about X, no matter how much you learn and how much know, there're always people smarter and savvier about X than you.
The only defense is diversification.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Hedging is a zero sum game. The best defense is a strong offense.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Teams with the #1 or 2 danked defense have won the Super Bowl 47% of time while teams with the #1 or 2 ranked offense have won 35%. That is statistically significant.
Hedging investments is very useful and productive. Unfortunately most do not know how to do so effectively. They then blame the investment or strategy, rather than themselves.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
A football team's offense is not competing against its own defense. A portfolio's hedges are playing against each other.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Are you playing offense or defense?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I'm thinking they are finally seeing slowdown signs that the market sees. The market is complaining that the Fed is deaf to things like reports that foreign slow downs are causing usa weakness.
I'm not betting against myself. LOL
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
The U.S. Congress established three key objectives for monetary policy in the Federal Reserve Act: maximizing employment, stabilizing prices, and moderating long-term interest rates. Supporting speculation whether it be in the housing, equity or any other market should not be their concern. Their desire to fuel booms (to satisfy political pressures) always results in a bust. Speculators should be left to suffer their own losses - maybe they will learn something from it.
I would rather see them concerned about the whipping that the savers have been taking over the last ten years.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
And that's why it won't see $40 anytime soon.
It made it up to the low $20's not too long ago. Plenty of selling sent it back under. Here we are now.
it's not about pumping or dumping the stock market.
the stock market sees economic signals that the FED does not see. Finally, the FED is listening to the market.... as part of the larger set of indicators... when judging where employment and inflation are heading.
The Fed is mainly interested in not killing the host organism. They have NO interest in helping anyone but the banking system.
(correction, NO added)
I knew it would happen.
I believe that to be quite evident.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Central banks were founded for one reason only: to save banks from bankruptcy, invariably at the cost of society at large. They’ll bring down markets and societies just to make sure banks don’t go under.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Well, that's a new website for you derryb. I see they only accept US dollars.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
2019: Zombie Markets Before The Fall
"Central banks don’t serve societies, they serve banks."
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Don't tell me you're an international banker. LOL.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Intergalactic. Nanu nanu.👽🛸
Klaatu barada nikto.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You want to be right, no matter what, 100%? Do the opposite of whatever the gold crowd is selling. The great commodity of earth can only be sold at pawn shops and the three coin shops left in your metro population of 2 million. Brilliant strategy, hold gold to preserve your wealth and then go to sell at the only place that buys it in some seedy run down strip mall downtown.
I've sold over $750K in precious metals over the years and have never sold to a dealer, pawn shop or to some seedy run down strip mall store. There are plenty of other buyers willing to pay a fair price.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Sounds like a lot of counter-party risk.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Not if you know when to buy and when to sell.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
The counter party risk im suggesting is the person on the otherside of those 750k in sales.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The Next Crisis
"Each credit and liquidity crisis starts out differently and ends up the same. Each crisis begins with distress in a particular over borrowed sector and then spreads from sector to sector until the whole world is screaming, “I want my money back!”
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Not the whole world db, some folks aren't leveraged, and just use the altered valuations as another opportunity to invest or rebalance assets. 2002-4 and 2009-12 were good times to do so, and we're well overdue for another. The recent correction helped, but could use more..
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You don't have to be leveraged for a liquidity and credit crisis to affect you.
I knew it would happen.
Well, it's a bit like cars and traffic, isn't it?
You don't have to be driving like a maniac for roadwork or an accident and congestion to "have an effect" on your commute, yet still, if you're paying attention and driving somewhat defensively, you don't slam into cars or run off the road, you just inch along until its clear again.
I kind of feel like never owning stocks or real estate because sometimes they go down and only "trusting" metals is like... only taking side streets and back roads because sometimes there is a traffic jam on the freeway.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I kind of feel like never owning stocks or real estate because sometimes they go down and only "trusting" metals is like... only taking side streets and back roads because sometimes there is a traffic jam on the freeway.
Maybe so. Nobody is debating the validity of portfolio rebalancing because frankly - it's a sound strategy.
The trust issue doesn't have much to do with the metals themselves. It is more a direct result of the world that keeps evolving all around us.
There is simply no reason to trust gov.com or Wall Street. Mileage may vary.
I knew it would happen.
Human capital is vibrant, adaptive, resourceful, creative, inventive....on and on. That is what I invest in and believe in. Gold is beautiful to look at and hold, but it is a non producing asset. If your strategy is to make money when the system crashes, or the dollar collapses then you will have a rude awakening. Income producing assets will rise the same as gold in a dollar crash. In a collapse, you had better hope you don't end up dead within two weeks.
Before all that happens, your money is doing something earning something, growing, investing, contributing to the overall economy which we all are hoping does not collapse.
My father put all of his money in gold, bought into the fear. He sold his Seattle home back in 2005 or so because he was worried about riots when the system collapsed (I don't need to tell you how much his home would be worth now). Luckily he bought gold in the $400 - $800 range and it appreciated in price. Had he invested that money wisely in the larger market, he would have made much much more.
I have seen firsthand the outcome of the fear that the gold crowd peddles. Get some gold, it is wonderful to own, but don't buy it out of fear or worry.