Natural Toning reduce cartwheel effect?

Basketcase

Hey all,

I once again am requesting your help in trying to understand things. I have a 1939 proof walking liberty coin that has a decent amount of toning to it. Please see below. The issue I have is, I don't see any circulation in the coin, but it doesn't show the cartwheel look that is typical of uncirculated coins. I don't believe it has been cleaned, but you never know. Does this type of toning cause the typical luster these coins portray to go away or would I expect to see the same cartwheel effect. There is some luster but in no way like the cartwheel look that I would hope for.

TomB

Howdy. That does not look like a proof coin. It looks very much like a business strike coin. It also looks like it has light circulation. However, to answer your question more directly, toning can definitely reduce the luster on a coin.

Basketcase

Thank you for the feedback. If you don't mind me asking, why do you think it is business and not proof? The detail is really nice and the stars come in really well. You can't see it in this pic because of the angle shot. Also where do you see the light circulation at? I am just trying to learn. Once again thank you for the feedback!

Namvet69

I think the exergue is one clue to it being a business strike. IMO

Basketcase

Thanks, I realize it is a business strike. The sun rays and the hand at the body level looks business strike. I had bought this at auction with 3 other coins. The auction house claimed it was proof. Luckily this coin was not the reason for the purchase and I did not even see it because the pics they took were so bad.

I am still curious on the circulation part though, I don't see it but the me being so novice and the toning so strong it is a difficult one.

david3142

I would recommend reading more and looking at pictures on PCGS CoinFacts and Heritage archives before you make any other purchases. A 1939 proof Walker would cost around $400 in typical condition. Also, stop doing any business with that auction house.

Keep asking questions too. You have come to the right place.

ricko

@Basketcase...Welcome aboard... there is rub/wear on the left arm and thigh as well as dings in the fields.....Definitely has seen some handling or limited circulation... and definitely not a proof. Yes, tarnish can impact luster. Cheers, RickO

BillJones

A Proof silver coin does not have a “cartwheel effect.” It has mirrored fields which appear as the name implies.

Toning can diminish the cartwheel effect or, in the advanced stages, do away with it entirely. Toning is oxidation of the metal, and as more of the metal is altered by the toning process, the metal flow, that results from striking the coin and creates the cartwheel, will be diminished. In its final stages toning can make the surfaces dull and lifeless with a solid black exterior.

The ideal situation is to have light toning that shows beautiful colors with the mint luster shining through it. Those are the coins that many collectors want, and some collectors pay strong premiums to get them.

thevolcanogod

It’s tough with the angle of that coin but looks like a little rub on the breast and the lower hand. Knowing where the high points are will help your eyes focus there first to look for rub which would indicate AU or possibly a ms60-62 grade at the best.

With cartwheel luster the type of toning can either obscure it or not. I don’t think those surfaces on yours are particularly pristine - either too many bag marks, an old cleaning or bit of circulation possible there would cause this.

Frankly (and I realize many would disagree with this and that’s ok) the type of toning on this coin is some that I would prefer to see dipped off. It’s ugly, adds nothing and obscures the true look of the surfaces.

Smudge

Always check the left hand on a Walker.