Josh Gordon is Finished
craig44
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in Sports Talk
Well, I guess all the words he spoke about being better and on the strait and narrow were just smoke and mirrors. Some people will say the "right" thing about hoping he gets better and so forth, but I think he should have just retired before the season. Look at all the time and effort two teams training staffs put in on keeping him "clean". It was all a waste of their time. He failed his organization, team and fans. All because he chose to not act as a professional.
Everyone has their own issues in life. Josh had a chance to earn all the money he ever could have needed. His immature decisions have now hopefully taken that chance away from him. very little sympathy here.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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Who is Josh Gordon?
when he played for the Browns his talent was undisputed, evidenced by a three game stretch where he had 200+ yards/game. yet he continued to struggle with addiction and lost the battle which lead to suspensions and his eventual trade to the Patriots. it seemed for awhile that the change might work, though in the back of my mind I was always thinking he'd break the hearts of Pat's fans in the end.
i hate being right in this case.
Josh Gordon just needs to quit and get help or he'll be dead in a matter of years, maybe longer. there are four endings for an addict --- recovery through complete abstinence, death, jail or an institution.
I’m not even sure I’m buying into this addiction thing. Everyone puts it in the minds of young people when they get into trouble and they happen to be drunk or high that they have a “Problem” 90% of the time it’s nonsense. The kid is in his 20’s and he likes to party, bottom line is the NFL won’t allow him to drink a beer or smoke a joint, for most 20 year olds they are going to do what they want regardless, unfortunately for Josh he can’t party and be an NFL player. That’s part of the problem with our youth and young people today, they get into a fight and they have to go to anger management, they get caught with a drug and they got a “Problem” I remember back in the 80’s and most of the 90’s I was drunk all the time and had fun. I grew up and that was that, same thing for 95% of my friends. Honestly I see no reason for Gordon to not party as much as he wants as long as he doesn’t hurt anyone and shows up to work on time and it don’t affect his job. The NFL feels differently though and I guarantee he will regret it when he grows up.
i've lost track of the number of chances he's been given, yet i still feel sympathy for him. forget football, he's gonna end up dead one of these days. i'd be surprised if he plays another down in the NFL.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Addiction can be a mother. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
And I definitely agree with you. I just don’t believe every case should be considered an addiction is all, I don’t know if Josh has a real problem or not, if he does then I wish him as a man the very best of luck and hope he can overcome it. All I’m saying is just because the NFL gives someone a substance abuse tag doesn’t necessarily mean it’s warranted
It’s almost impossible to tell for sure looking from the outside. It’s kind of like people asking for handouts on the streets. It’s almost impossible to know for sure who really needs the money for food and shelter or for meth. I error on the side of helping as many people as I can and hope for the best knowing some people are just going to game the system. The poorest of the poor and richest of the rich game the system. I’d rather error on the side of helping the poor and if I get taken advantage once in awhile so be it.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Many otherwise good lives lost.
Credit the Browns. They got some flak after essentially giving him away but they knew what they were doing after all.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If he's failing a drug test because he's smoking weed I completely agree with this. The behavior may be banned by the NFL but to say he has an addiction for smoking marijuana is a bit of a stretch, IMO. Unfortunately, he's not smart enough to avoid engaging in that activity and risking great wealth by doing so which I suppose is a problem in itself.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
No sympathy here. All he is is an idiot punk!
Maybe an idiot but I don’t think he deserves to be called a punk, the kid was nothing but a decent teammate in NE.
He one the rules to the game. He made a choice to break them. Over and over and over. His career is over due to his own choices. The sad thing to me in this case is that he effected so many others with his poor choices. He can party all he wants, just not and be an NFL player. The rules are fair he chose to break them, no sympathy from me.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I also hear a lot of people on the radio/tv and in conversation calling him a kid. Not so. He is a grown man, what 28 years old or so. Time to grow up and take responsibility for your actions. What a looser.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Totally agree!! He made his bed......now he gets to lay in it.
I wonder what the NFL will do when a majority of states make weed legal? That day is coming.
Totally fine for a private business to make rules governing drug use. The player knows the rules going in and no one is forcing them to play. It is their decision to play and abide by the rules.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I don’t disagree with you but who is the NFL to decide what adults can do away from the job? I’m sorry but the NFL is not a Law Enforcement agency, the players union should fight this stupid “Substance abuse policy” outside of steroids or PEDS, if an adult wants to legally smoke Marijuana then he should be able to in a responsible way. For some guys it’s a stress reliever, and there is no doubt that players are under a lot of stress in some cases. Pro Football is not an easy game. I’m not a smoker, I haven’t touched weed since 1996 and don’t plan on ever touching it but I got no problem with it
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/browns_josh_gordon_opens_up_ab.html
Browns' Josh Gordon opens up about his extensive drug use, his 90-day rehab, and his bid 'to get my life back' in mini-documentary.
There are TONS of jobs that have anti drug policies. I have had jobs in the past where I had to be pee tested. You have the wrong idea here. The NFL is not telling people what they can do in there spare time. They are saying that it you want to have a job that will make you wildley rich and famous and be able to retire at 30, you cannot use recreational drugs. If you don't want that job, fine. Go work at Wal-Mart and smoke all you want. It is a condition of the job and no one is forced to work there
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yea I’m well aware of what the NFL is all about and bottom line this rule is stupid.
Kareem Hunt will be back before Josh Gordon.
Eric
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This was wisely stated in an earlier post. "Josh Gordon just needs to quit and get help or he'll be dead in a matter of years, maybe longer. there are four endings for an addict --- recovery through complete abstinence, death, jail or an institution."
The basic problem with addiction is that addicts usually think they can control the addiction, when in reality the addiction controls them. Unless the addict fully realizes and admits that they are powerless over the addiction, then recovery is extremely difficult if not next to impossible to attain.
Could a drug addict such as Josh Gordon, become an occasional user and "control" his drug usage? Almost nothing is impossible when it comes to human behavior. However the likelihood of Gordon being able to do that is slim and none. Complete abstinence is the better solution if not the only solution.
It's also important to remember that most if not all addictions are a symptom of emotional problems, and not the cause. Gordon could use some good counseling to help root out these emotional problems in which he is using drugs to cover-up and mask over these problems.
Some emotional problems cannot be resolved. For example if an addict had abusive parents or was abused as a kid in some way, they can't change their parents or past events. However they can change the way a problem is dealt with.
A good recovery program teaches the addict to resolve the problems or simply learn to live with it, without the addiction. Recovery works but only when the addict is willing to work recovery.
Unfortunately, too many addicts have to hit rock bottom, before gaining the initiative to do the necessary work in a recovery program. Hopefully, Gordon won't hit that rock bottom, but sadly that is the path he is currently on.
What is stupid about that rule? It's not just the nfl. Should truck drivers, pilots, electrical linemen, air traffic controllers, oil rig operators, nuclear power plant foremen all be allowed to use recreational drugs and stay employed? Of course the employer should be able to have expectations for employees as a condition for employment. It would be crazy otherwise. The only way it would be morally wrong is if the employees had no choice as to whether they worked at a job.
This is one area where the NFL is well within their rights.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The drug rules aren't just for the integrity of the game, but player safety as well.
NFL football is a dangerous enough sport, even for anyone who is completely sober and cognizant of what is going on out there on the field. Any player even mildly impaired on drugs can get very badly hurt out there from not paying close enough attention.
there is an old saying, it goes like this: Sometimes it's better to keep quiet and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. several members "voicing their opinion" in this thread might want to ponder that thought for a moment.
anyone in the USA who hasn't been touched in some way or witnessed addiction/alcoholism must be living in a cave. yet a large portion of the populace remains ignorant of the disease and the perception of a "weak will" or thoughts about "choice" and "why doesn't he just quit" always seep into the conversation. I won't even get close to trying to explain anything here, I am sure I'd be met with scorn, you guys are just too smart for me when it comes to this topic.
I will only say this --- if Josh Gordon was suffering the affects of some physical injury, and either he or the NFL was taking him off the field, he would be supported almost universally. things are different when it comes to mental illness(and make no mistake about it, Addiction and Alcoholism are forms of Mental Illness). as a Society we have a long way to go in that regard but education might be a good place to start. I suggest you don't bury your head in the sand.
another saying, Love the person and hate the disease.
Again your comparing the NFL to jobss where other people Safety is involved. The NFL is not putting anyone at risk by allowing their players to smoke a joint in the offseason. If you can’t understand my point then obviously you are just incapable of expanding your thought processing. And if anyone outside of our resident jack of all professions SteveK think allowing players to smoke outside of work puts other players at risk your completely nuts
Oh well then, I guess that changes everything. I guess this is not Gordon's fault at all. Probably should just let him play where he isn't in charge of his own body/mind and all.
Look, all of this was a choice. Unless, that is, someone strapped Gordon to a chair and forced him to inhale that first doobie.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
a question to perkdog --- if I smoke a joint today, how long will the drug be in my system and be detectable??
craig, as I said, I won't try to explain anything to you guys because you're all too smart for me, you know too much about these things. in lieu of that let me give you another quote to think about.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
20 years in a Correctional Facility dealing with thousands and thousands of inmates who take advantage of programs and buck the system gives me a right to have an opinion regardless of what any of you think or say about it. Yes Addiction is a powerful thing and for those that are truly addicted it’s an extremely tough thing to overcome and I generally feel bad for them but for the others claiming addiction it’s just an excuse because they got caught doing something wrong. As the old saying goes it’s not a problem until you get in trouble.
30 days I believe. Keets let me again say I appreciate your PM and give much respect your way, but please realize that most former Addicts ( I know your always an addict ) freak out at the thought of anyone smoking a joint or drinking a beer, it’s extreme thinking which effects recovering addicts in regards to booze and drugs just like liberals freak out at every little thing they don’t agree with. Everyone is different and for the millionth time just because someone gets in trouble when they are drunk or High doesn’t warrant the “They got an addiction”
perkdog, you and I are opposite sides of the same coin. you deal with the result and I deal with the cause.
please realize that most former Addicts ( I know your always an addict ) freak out at the thought of anyone smoking a joint or drinking a beer
apparently we travel in different crowds or our experiences must be drastically different. I don't "freak out" or anything close to that. sometimes I'm surprised when a long term recovery starts anew but it is something I encounter regularly. seeing the statistics and realizing the low rate of recovery and the high incidence of incarceration, suicide and re-lapse among addicts/alcoholics would discourage anyone. that's what Josh Gordon faces and his outlook isn't good.
you and I are both in the trenches, I'm sure we could tell some stories that would drop some jaws, it isn't a pretty disease.
FWIW, back in the 1980's the Cleveland Browns initiated a program called "The Inner Circle" or something like that. it was devoted to support and assistance to Team members who struggled with Alcohol and Drugs and was ahead of it's time for where the NFL was. I recall that it had a lot to do with ex-USC star Charles White and about a half-dozen other players. they had the full support of the Team and HC Sam Rutigliano.
Perkdog - Read the posted article about Josh Gordon before you continue to wallow in ignorance throughout this thread.
Seems like you wish to give these players an excuse for drug use. If they need a "stress reliever" as you stated it, anytime or during the off season, there are countless other ways in life to relieve stress other than using dangerous illegal drugs and risk getting addicted to it.
BTW - For all you pro-cannabis fanatics out there who think that your beloved marijuana is a safe harmless drug. The facts are that it is not safe and harmless. Don't be fooled by the same propaganda that permeated the tobacco industry in the past which proclaimed that cigarette smoking was safe and harmless.
I, one hundred percent, support the NFL in their strict rules regarding drug use.
I wasn’t directing that right at you, I think you have been pretty open minded and rational with your posting style over the years and I think you have been the same about this topic. Looking at Gordon though it might just be he wants to smoke weed for the rest of his life, chances are if he doesn’t illegally deal it or drive with under the influence of it he probably WONT end up in jail or dead from it, he just won’t be as rich. That’s a possibility too, we don’t know his deal outside of not being able to suit up for an NFL Game, all situations are different and we shouldn’t paint every situation with the same brush. Most people said the same about Justin Blackmon and last I checked he isn’t dead or in jail
Is it your position that employers should not be able to have character clauses included in contracts? You are completely missing the point here. the NFL drug policy is a condition of employment. they have the right to have conditions for their employees to abide by. If a prospective player doesnt agree with the conditions, or does not think he can abide by them, he absolutely has the right not to sign the contract and not play and not earn millions of dollars.
what about that is dumb? what doesnt make sense? If this was North Korea and players were forced to play I could see your point. Gordon does not have a right to play in the NFL, it is a privilege.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It’s my position that non LE employers should not have a problem with someone smoking a joint legally when they are on their own time and it doesn’t effect their job performance. It’s my position that people’s livelihoods should not get destroyed because they enjoy a smoke on their own time. It’s my position that the NFL should not care if a guy smokes a joint in the offseason. It’s my position that if a guy gets put on the substance abuse list he can’t have 1 beer? Can’t have one joint after the seasons over? Yea it’s dumb. But you are 100% correct that they dont have to sign that contract, they are free to not play and do what they want I can’t argue that point.
ya ya poor nfl owners have it so tough. Lets have a moment of silence for these poor owners. Contracts are ironclad , until a player gets cut and they don't pay them for whatever reason seems handy at the time.
The contracts are one way , the players have to honor thier end but unless the player is a superstar they don't get the money guaranteed in full sometimes not even in part.
players can leave anytime they want. remember rickey williams. they can quit. they just wont get paid. lots of people have non compete clauses in their contracts outside of football. Any player who chooses to quit will just have to get a different kind of job. Didnt a player from the Bengals I think actually quit at halftime of a game this year? and yes, players can also get cut, and may or may not get paid according to roster bonuses etc. I dont think anyone here has had a pity party for the owners.
again, no one is forcing anyone to sign a contract and play in the NFL. these guys know the rules and what they are getting themselves into.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The same thing can be said about Concussions.
Where it gets sticky is who says how much is too much? for some people one joint is enough to stress relieve. for others it might be 2 or 3 or 12. how many beers for someone on the substance list? 2, 3, 33? see how slipery this gets? there needs to be a standard, because every idividual may have a different personal standard. that is why we have speed limits, oui limits weight capacities for long haul truckers and so on.
what is reasonable for you may be very much unreasonable for me and vice versa. same for the 600 or so players in the NFL.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That is correct
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm not in favor of a nanny state. However in this thread's example of drug use, the NFL has got it exactly right that we as a society should be doing whatever we can to dissuade people, especially young people, from using these drugs.
In my view the recent federal criminal justice reform bill of helping folks thru various ways combat drug addiction versus automatic imprisonment, is a good step in the right direction.
Josh Gordon is a drug addict, that is not debatable. We can take a lackadaisical attitude towards drugs and let everybody get high and do whatever they want, or we can put our foot down and explain that drug use is a dead end proposition. And work to get folks the help that they need to stop using harmful drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, heroin, etc.
my issue is holding potheads to a standard because its retained in your blood for months that loser alkys don't have to meet because they can piss their drug out in 8 hours and act like they don't have an issue.
Regardless of the merits of sobriety versus indulging in any substance of choice, theres still a perception that drinking is ok somehow unlike drugs. Its pretty obvious to me that the biggest losers are drinkers and can anyone name the last player suspended for being drunk?
I'm not saying ease up on people who use drugs mind you , I'm saying lets just relentlessly hound people that drink for a century to even things up.
preach stevek preach
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I have posted this in another similar thread here but if you missed it I'll post it again.
the active ingredient in marijuana is fat soluble, that means it dissolves and is absorbed/stored by fat cells. when those fat cells are burned the active ingredient of marijuana stored in them is metabolized. alcohol, cocaine, etc. tend to be water soluble. since our bodies will flush out all water in approximately 3-5 days the active ingredients are gone after that time. if you use those "recreational drugs" on your "own time" over the weekend you should hope for no urinalysis until Friday or you probably won't pass.
not so with marijuana since fat cells may be stored for extended periods. as an unpleasant coincidence, it just so happens that each Brain Cell is surrounded by a layer of fat. OOPS!!! along these same lines, an unpleasant thing for our VietNam Veterans is that Agent Orange also is fat soluble. hence, many of the problems associated with that poison and returning Servicemen and Women.
to Josh Gordon, it's important to understand the Disease of Substance abuse and "choice" as everyone likes to call it. another way to look at it is abscence of choice. to the uninformed or uneducated it seems ludicrous. Josh Gordon had every reason NOT to use, so why did he?? is he weak willed, stupid or just doesn't care?? the answer is much more complex than that and the Medical community is hard at work trying to fully understand.
How much more taxpayer money do you want to throw at this? One of the smartest things Massachusetts ever did was legalize Marijuana,instead of wasting millions of dollars incarcerating people for using it they put sensible regulations on it.
Or he could have just wanted to do it regardless of how much money it costs him? Tell ya what you could offer me a Billion dollars to never be with a woman and I would flat out say no. You could offer a fat person the same offer but they couldn’t ever eat any fat or sugar and they would say no too. Maybe Josh wants to smoke more than he wants to be an NFL WR
did josh gordon not "choose" to take that first drag?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think you may have it here. Let him smoke to his little hearts content, but just know he cant do that AND be an NFL WR
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
you guys just don't understand the mechanics of addiction. have fun in your thread with speculation and ignorant assumption.