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Have at it, you savages.

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  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said: "Check a couple posts above yours, you can get the full details from the forum member caught doing this. He is still a member today."

    I read the entire thread. No info. I was hoping for some PM's. I'll find out several methods in due time. :wink:

  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018 5:00PM

    @HeatherBoyd said:

    @Rexford said:
    @HeatherBoyd Can this cert number be deactivated?

    Working on this now

    I'm not sure I'd remove the listing completely. We've all run into a cert lookup now and then that doesn't come up in the database for one reason or another, and especially with older holders, it may just get overlooked as "Well, it's a Rattler".

    If it were up to me (Clearly not) - I would screenshot the 2 pics in this thread and attach them to the cert lookup - with a "Original Coin" and "After Artificial Toning done while in the slab" - but I think we would have copyright issues using those images.

    2nd choice would be in this section:

    List something like:
    10/29/18 - eBay as a white coin
    11/19/18 - Coin is being resold after being chemically altered in the slab with artificial toning

    Perhaps now next to the grade where it says MS63 - put: MS63 (originally) - as of 11/19/18 - Artificially Toned or something like that.

    But that's just me.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
  • Well one method isn't the excuse offered way back when. When caught red handed with a bunch on the bay, and had purchased several of these newly 'improved colorful gems' merely the month before and the original pics were still able to be viewed , somehow his "I accidentally left a box of 20 overnight on a radiator" didn't fly.

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    No biggie. A thirty dollar coin. Fifteen of it being the plastic.

    Not really . . . bidding is over $100 already.

  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018 5:43PM
  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a 'scientist' I would love to experiment making these.....................alas, work and life get in the way :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @coinbuf said: "Check a couple posts above yours, you can get the full details from the forum member caught doing this. He is still a member today."

    I read the entire thread. No info. I was hoping for some PM's. I'll find out several methods in due time. :wink:

    Hence why I wrote from the forum member not the thread, I was here when that was going on so I know the details are not laid out in that old thread.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More AT Morgans.

    Worse looking and more direct evidence of it than most of the thousands (millions?) Of fake color coins on the market.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HeatherBoyd said:

    @Rexford said:
    @HeatherBoyd Can this cert number be deactivated?

    Working on this now

    Once it's pulled, then the auction is fair game to be reported to eBay as not being in a valid PCGS holder.

    I hope that there's some way to flag the holder for what it is, even if that information is not currently available to the public, so that the seller can't simply present it to someone at PCGS saying "there must be a mistake" and have the cert reinstated.

  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HeatherBoyd said:

    @Rexford said:
    @HeatherBoyd Can this cert number be deactivated?

    Working on this now

    That's awesome! Down with the coin doctors!

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe they (PCGS) could put a sliver of C4 in the slab and if the slab was messed with it would ignite the C4. :)

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, C4 burns just like an average lump of plastic, but perhaps they could include a little indicator strip. They include one with each batch of surgical instruments prior to sterlilization. In that case, sufficient heat turns the indicator a different color as a visual verification of sterility. In the case of a slab, perhaps an indicator strip would detect AT compounds (like sulfur) and show a color change to inform us all that something naughty happened.

    Shoot, maybe I should file a patent. :)

  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭

    Can I hire this guy to do custom work? My 4 year old daughter is having a birthday soon and she would think it is really cool to have her name in rainbow colors on a Morgan (or a 1794 Dollar) within a slab - PCGS of course.

    In all seriousness, this person should face the wrath of the entire collecting community and PCGS. Not cool at all.

    Collecting since 1976.
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good detective work!

    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 9,749 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm truly sorry, if I hurt anybodies feelings. I sometimes forget what a delicate little world we live in today. I got warned for breaking a rule on phobias. And for the record I have no phobias, in fact I have friends and some family who are, can I say "Happy"! So, again please forgive me if I came off the wrong way, it wasn't my intention. In the future, I will try to be more careful on my choice of words... :*:*:*

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    I particularly like how that one is advertised as naturally toned.

    Me think he doth protest too much.....

    How about natural gas toned?

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whoever buys it will have his name and addy and should forward it to PCGS. One could always return it as a SNAD maybe.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Contact ebay and do a PSA about gassing of coins in the slab to artificially tone them and have ebay put it in the beware section.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Actually, C4 burns just like an average lump of plastic, but perhaps they could include a little indicator strip. They include one with each batch of surgical instruments prior to sterlilization. In that case, sufficient heat turns the indicator a different color as a visual verification of sterility. In the case of a slab, perhaps an indicator strip would detect AT compounds (like sulfur) and show a color change to inform us all that something naughty happened.

    Shoot, maybe I should file a patent. :)

    Too bad you just relinquished the idea to Our Hosts by posting it here. ;) Going forward, an indicator in the label that turns color when exposed to a hostile environment would be cool, but would do nothing for the rattlers that are most susceptible to this.

    I think bird-dogging more evidence about this guy's sales and encouraging PCGS's legal department to send him a Scary Letter™ might be pretty effective.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 13,107 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018 7:55PM

    @PerryHall said:
    Those AT coins are hideous looking. People that pay a premium for that toning should get rid of their seeing eye dog and get a new one. :#

    Some idiot has bid up the first one to $101! Or could be someone trying to “win” it nad never pay for it like Mark Feld used to do 😆

  • edited November 19, 2018 8:23PM
    This content has been removed.
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    HLT, welcome to the forum. ;-)

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good evening, Renman!

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Actually, C4 burns just like an average lump of plastic, but perhaps they could include a little indicator strip. They include one with each batch of surgical instruments prior to sterlilization. In that case, sufficient heat turns the indicator a different color as a visual verification of sterility. In the case of a slab, perhaps an indicator strip would detect AT compounds (like sulfur) and show a color change to inform us all that something naughty happened.

    Shoot, maybe I should file a patent. :)

    I thought C4 was highly explosive. At least it is in the movies. ;)

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @BryceM said:
    Actually, C4 burns just like an average lump of plastic, but perhaps they could include a little indicator strip. They include one with each batch of surgical instruments prior to sterlilization. In that case, sufficient heat turns the indicator a different color as a visual verification of sterility. In the case of a slab, perhaps an indicator strip would detect AT compounds (like sulfur) and show a color change to inform us all that something naughty happened.

    Shoot, maybe I should file a patent. :)

    I thought C4 was highly explosive. At least it is in the movies. ;)

    C4 is highly explosive, but it is very stable. You can literally burn it like firewood with nothing to worry about. However, if you were to burn it and while it was on fire, take a hammer to it, well that is different.

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think PCGS should instead of deactivating the certificate number, list it as "Compromised". That would raise a lot of questions by possible buyers.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said:

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @BryceM said:
    Actually, C4 burns just like an average lump of plastic, but perhaps they could include a little indicator strip. They include one with each batch of surgical instruments prior to sterlilization. In that case, sufficient heat turns the indicator a different color as a visual verification of sterility. In the case of a slab, perhaps an indicator strip would detect AT compounds (like sulfur) and show a color change to inform us all that something naughty happened.

    Shoot, maybe I should file a patent. :)

    I thought C4 was highly explosive. At least it is in the movies. ;)

    C4 is highly explosive, but it is very stable. You can literally burn it like firewood with nothing to worry about. However, if you were to burn it and while it was on fire, take a hammer to it, well that is different.

    I was wanting to do some serious damage to these coin doctors!! :D

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @BryceM said:

    I thought C4 was highly explosive. At least it is in the movies. ;)

    Nope, burns fine at atmospheric pressure. It can even be used to heat up C ration food.

    While in the employ of one Uncle Sam, my team was afforded the opportunity to parachute in, and destroy a railroad bridge and water tower. I carried a good amount of the C4, and others carried some, but the 2 people that carried the blasting caps were kept away from the C4.

    Neither structure was standing by morning. :*

    It was quite exciting to actually plan, set, wire, and then twist the handles on the blasting plungers, and watch everything come tumbling down.

    BTW, the wire used on Claymore Mines IIRC, had a silver plating and made great speaker wire when the original device was consumed.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018 9:40PM

    Might be a good time to start a "define the difference between AT and NT" thread.

    The forum has yet to reach a consensus on that.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Connecticoin said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Those AT coins are hideous looking. People that pay a premium for that toning should get rid of their seeing eye dog and get a new one. :#

    Some idiot has bid up the first one to $101! Or could be someone trying to “win” it nad never pay for it like Mark Feld used to do 😆

    There were several of us that did this. Mark and I had much fun and happy bidding! Sometimes we could hear the selling singing all the way to the bank, but alas he got nothing. Many times our bids exceeded 10K for common coins. Great fun.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    Good evening, Renman!

    Don't you need a Shave or smoething?

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @jtlee321 said:

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @BryceM said:
    Actually, C4 burns just like an average lump of plastic, but perhaps they could include a little indicator strip. They include one with each batch of surgical instruments prior to sterlilization. In that case, sufficient heat turns the indicator a different color as a visual verification of sterility. In the case of a slab, perhaps an indicator strip would detect AT compounds (like sulfur) and show a color change to inform us all that something naughty happened.

    Shoot, maybe I should file a patent. :)

    I thought C4 was highly explosive. At least it is in the movies. ;)

    C4 is highly explosive, but it is very stable. You can literally burn it like firewood with nothing to worry about. However, if you were to burn it and while it was on fire, take a hammer to it, well that is different.

    I was wanting to do some serious damage to these coin doctors!! :D

    I used to work with explosives on a daily basis when I was in the military. Some things would make me nervous, but most didn't bother me one bit. As @mustangmanbob mentioned above, it was the blasting caps you had to worry about. ;)

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @renman95 said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    Good evening, Renman!

    Don't you need a Shave or smoething?

    Five o'clock shadow..
    And you're in a rush..
    Ditch the Norelco..
    And lather with a brush!

    Burma Shave

  • @Coinstartled said:
    Might be a good time to start a "define the difference between AT and NT" thread.

    The forum has yet to reach a consensus on that.

    Sometimes it's hard to define AT in words but like Potter Stewart said in 1954 I know it when I see it and every one of the coin doctor's items for sale is AT.

  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018 12:27AM

    .

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm still trying to figure out why the OP called us "savages". :o:p

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @McGrump said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    Might be a good time to start a "define the difference between AT and NT" thread.

    The forum has yet to reach a consensus on that.

    Sometimes it's hard to define AT in words but like Potter Stewart said in 1954 I know it when I see it and every one of the coin doctor's items for sale is AT.

    >

    Meaning that the toning was intentional....I get that. But how is it different than toning that is not intentional...and does it really matter how the so called tarnish originated?

    I have seen notations of artificial toning as well as questionable toning. I am not sure what questionable means. It is still toning.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tarnish is tarnish....'questionable' means they could not determine if it was NT or AT....The origin of tarnish matters to collectors because one has occurred over time and the other was intentionally induced in a relatively short period and also may have been done with chemicals not normally encountered. They are both environmental damage to the surface of the coin. For NT, there is a premium... for known AT there is scorn...except in some cases. I have seen premiums paid for wild colors on some coins that were obviously not natural. So, it does matter to coin purists. Cheers, RickO

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So the Wayte Raymond toning was ok if it was unexpected.

    Got it!

  • slider23slider23 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018 12:31PM

    Based on the different patterns and colors most of the coins do not appear to be gassed. There are a couple that have the in holder gas look. My guess the guy is buying Chinese plastic. He cracks the coin from the original holder does the AT job and puts the cert and coin into the new plastic. As noted there are some different marks on the plastic of OP before and after coins.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    So the Wayte Raymond toning was ok if it was unexpected.

    Got it!

    Different issue than what we're dealing with here. Seller is passing of a coin as having been deemed to have market-acceptable toning by PCGS when that is demonstrably not the case. If the coin in the second sale were suddenly in a new holder after acquiring all its colors, then the "natural vs. artificial vs. questionable toning" holy war could be waged.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    So the Wayte Raymond toning was ok if it was unexpected.

    Got it!

    Different issue than what we're dealing with here. Seller is passing of a coin as having been deemed to have market-acceptable toning by PCGS when that is demonstrably not the case. If the coin in the second sale were suddenly in a new holder after acquiring all its colors, then the "natural vs. artificial vs. questionable toning" holy war could be waged.

    I don't disagree. Slab is thirty years old. What if this toning occurred over three decades rather than 3 weeks. Still not ok?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would think it's much harder to stabilize the toning process with a slabbed coin.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018 9:16AM

    @HappyLittleTrees said:

    Was discovered by the seller. I contribute nothing to society.

    ----- You're the top poster at that Refugee place.

    As he said...

  • MarkMark Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @slider23 To me, the slabs seem the same. Check out the the defect in the holder where it touches the coin right at 6 o'clock and the sort of excess plastic around the outer ring near 5 to 6 o'clock. This said, there does seem to be a new defect at about 4 o'clock on the slab in the second picture, after the coin was toned. But the pictures are obviously taken at different angles, so I guess it maybe did not show up in the first picture.

    However, I do not see any obvious place where anything, such as a needle, was inserted through the side of the slab in order to introduce gas to the coin. That's too bad because I'd still like to understand how this is done.

    Mark

    Mark


  • ElKevvoElKevvo Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mark said:

    However, I do not see any obvious place where anything, such as a needle, was inserted through the side of the slab in order to introduce gas to the coin. That's too bad because I'd still like to understand how this is done.

    No need for a needle...these slabs are not very airtight like the ones today so a gaseous compound can be introduced without any modification to the slab, just a positive pressure differential between the air containing the compound that the person wants to introduce into the slab and the air in the slab. The lower pressure air in the slab is forced out by the higher pressure air containing the compound and voila! Compound is now in the slab and toning commences. :)

    K

    ANA LM

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