PCGS no graded my coin "Wheel Mark". Trueview in 1st post. **Edit** I believe found the "Wheel mark"
fivecents
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Yes! I found the wheel mark! It's in the rays of the sun up towards the flag. Can't see it on the coin, but can see it in the trueview blown up images.
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I don't see a "wheel mark" but I do see what they probably thought was artificial toning.
Ouch!
Wheel mark on chest.
Pan fried. PCGS letting you down saving face.
Left hand side of the shield on the reverse?
Ken
I do not see a wheel mark.... I would definitely question the tarnish.....Cheers, RickO
What would cause a "wheel mark" on a dollar size coin? I don't see it, but I don't have it in hand either. Color is suspect to me through.
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If that color was on a Morgan and it graded, that would be a sad situation. Since it's on a bullion coin I think it's completely acceptable. Further, I don't really see a wheel mark and wonder how that coin could even get one? There's no way these are ever run through a machine for any purpose, right?
IMHO: One ugly coin.
The wheel marks that I have gotten in the past are peripheral scrapes, so I look near the letters at edge. I got rid of the color looking for odd areas and see something different near IBE on obverse. I also sometimes see it better in hand, rotating under light.
12:00 on the obverse above the E on the rim? Yes, requires a very close inspection to find for sure and no idea how it would have gotten a wheel mark either.
My guess is the patch of hairlines is on the sun. You will not see a wheel mark unless the coin is held "just right" in the light. Distracting spots too.
Due to recent interpretation and application of forum law, I respectfully decline to comment on the decisions of PCGS grading.
"The good old days when “JUSTICE” stood for something instead of “JUST US.”" - Martin Armstrong
When I said breast I meant sun.
We get it man, it happens.
Looks very natural toning to me and wheel mark, really? That is definitely a new one to me one this series.
I feel for you as it is a really nice example
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
These coins are probably not run through counting machines YET they do display patches of parallel hairlines that cannot be attributed to something that happened at the mint.
You got me. Here I was just staring at her chest the whole time trying to see what you were talking about.
Now as far as the sun, I still don't see any obvious marks. The marks on the shield bother me though.
All those white areas on the reverse are toning breaks. This I am 100% positive about.
Wheel mark on a Silver Eagle That's a first!
My YouTube Channel
Zoomed in and got lost....
That's what I noticed too.
This I do agree with but I have seen maybe 50 or more like that and never had them say it was from a wheel.
But something.....dont know
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I was looking at these shadowy marks on the shield. Not the toning breaks.
All those are hits or tics and not toning breaks.
Teflon marks.
Yeah, I don’t think these were ever machine counted!
Nor was the 1857 gold French 20 Franc that I submitted and came back Genuine - Wheel Mark.
I wasn't even aware they had machine counters in 1857.
They didn’t, but in the 1.6 centuries since they did. In the Y2K bullion madness we were selling sovereigns and 20 Francs in 1,000 coin lots, sometimes several lots in a day, and when Brinks would deliver them to us we would run them through our coin counter before delivering them to the customers.
This is like the numismatic version of "Where's Waldo?" I agree with the others - the toning looks more problematic although probably MA.
A wheel mark can vanish looking at the coin straight on but if you tilt it at an angle to a single light source it should jump.out at you. Toning can make this a bit more difficult but the PC desk it crossed seemed to see what he thought was a wheel mark. I would check these areas out first...
I SEE NOTHING as said by Sgt Schultz! (Hogans Heros)
Wow! That is a lot of gold, Captain!
Yes! I found the wheel mark!
It's in the rays of the sun up towards the flag. Can't see it on the coin, but can see it in the trueview blown up images.
@fivecents Are you talking about this (circled)?
YES! Yes that is the wheel mark @Hemispherical...got to be it.
Wait, you can zoom in on those?
Who knew?
I don't know how to post it zoomed. It really pops out at you zoomed.
Without the markups.
YES....YES...YES.
Thar she blows!!
It's very hard to see on the coin itself. Two non mustard stained dealers couldn't even find the wheel mark.
IMO, those are not "wheel marks" they are more likely contact marks. A wheel mark is a patch of hairlines where something rubbed the surface with enough pressure to impair the surface. Wheel marks occur in degrees. A severe one will leave a polished-like patch. A minor one will appear as a patch of parallel hairlines.
Take your coin into a dark room and turn on one table lamp. Hold the coin at a 45-degree angle and slowly turn it while rocking it back an forth about 5 degrees. Do it on both sides. It would be much easier to see if the coin was not toned.
PS I've seen plenty of SE with wheel marks. Most are the minor type - just a patch of hairlines. I cannot say how they were made. Washington Quarters and Franklin halves are notorious for them and if you don't examine a coin properly you'll not see them.
I'm not buying those are wheel marks.
Just in case, it's been nice knowing you all.
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If PCGS said the coin has a wheel mark, IT DOES! Grading services are not in the business to piss all over our coins. I can find a problem (BY MY STUPID AND UNREALISTIC STANDARDS) deserving a "details" label on at least 20% of the coins I see straight graded at shows. My personal wacky grading would ruin a coin business!
We are not going to learn anything from that image. The only provable thing is the coin has some contact marks and toning. The ONLY important thing in this discussion is that the owner of the coin learn what a wheel mark is and can find it on that toned coin! Obviously, it is difficult. Professionals miss them all the time on untoned coins. That's why more than one person grades a coin.
As others have stated, those are not wheelmarks
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The middle of the up and down part of the L has a mark similar to wheel marks. Is the middle of one letter enough to get the a coin genuine?
A wheel mark occurs in a coin counting machine when the rubber wheels of the machine scrape a coin's surface. They appear as shiny hairlines that are concentrated in a path on the coin's surface where the rubber wheel scraped the coin. These hairlines are sometimes easy to miss but are detectable under magnification and when the coin is rotated under a light. I can' t imagine someone running ASE's through a coin counter, I mean how hard is it to count and stack 20 coins in a tube??? I suppose anything is possible though.
I thought you were gonna show us a Walker, which sometimes are found with wheel marks, which you don't want to submit to a grading service (been there, done that)!
Good Point.
PCGS gets picky (as they should) when it comes to the devices.
Wheel marks can be hard to image, especially the minor ones. I'll post some images this coming week.