JPM metals trader pleads guilty to futures price manipulation
derryb
Posts: 36,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
"An ex-J.P. Morgan Chase trader has admitted to manipulating the U.S. markets of an array of precious metals for about seven years -- and he has implicated his supervisors at the bank. As part of his plea, Edmonds said that from 2009 through 2015 he conspired with other J.P. Morgan traders to manipulate the prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures contracts on exchanges run by the CME Group."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
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Comments
stock prices are manipulated too
Fake orders are placed above or below market to influence it in one direction or another
There is always a relatively small group of "bad apples" attempting to manipulate just about anything. My question is: did this manipulation have a major impact on the PM market or not. There must be a ton of manipulation going on in the PM markets for the last year or so, all downward. Can't wait for the manipulators to reverse course.
posted to educate the "there is no PM price manipulation" crowd. The fact that it involves numerous JPM traders and supervisors indicates more than a small crowd of bad apples. What are the odds that JPM is the only outfit involved?
Of important note is the fact that the indictment is the result of the FBI and Justice Dept. efforts. Appears the Commodity Futures Trading Commission's (CTFC) enforcement division remains asleep at the wheel.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Got anything for the benefit of the, "sure, there's some Manipulation, but So What?" crowd?
So What? as in... so... what?
Why does this matter, and if it matters, why doesn't it make us want to Sell our metal and don't be involved at all in a corrupt market?
Seems anything but bullish for PMs
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
First there was the "no manipulation" crowd. Then they became the "some manipulation" crowd. Give them time, while slower than most they are evolving.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
It matters because it is offering you suppressed prices. There was a time when the US government dictated the price of gold would be $35.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Toward what, "It's ALL Manipulated?"?
Grant it, for sake of conversation..
Same question, so what?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
what
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Even more concerning ... What if JPM was coordinating with other big players.... Either way, there is always the likelihood of such activity.... Cheers, RickO
Silver guru Ted Butler's take
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
So where was the CFTC ?
At dinner with JPM
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Bullish for gold?
Not in the last couple of months
Like the "no manipulation" crowd here?
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
If it trades electronically you better believe it's being manipulated.
Problem I have is the pumpers are always claiming manipulators only send the price lower. Manipulation works in both directions.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
So the mere fact that if JPM was doing it, there was sufficient money involved to make it attractive to JPM to risk prosecution. Winners and losers. Who do you think were the losers?
I knew it would happen.
Is JPM just the tip of the ice berg?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes...no more suppression. Whoohoo!!! Wait!!! These guys were caught in 2015. But, but, but....silver is currently trading about 10% lower than it was in 2015. How, how, how can this be???
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
But you said, for a long time now, that there is no silver or gold manipulation. Baby steps, you'll get there.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Thats your manipulation? Lol
Why, 3 years later, is silver the same price if this "manipulation" supressed prices so?
Hey derryb....BOO!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
JPM metals trader turns "states evidence"
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
You'd think the "supression" would have stopped by now...yet here we are banging at the same price as 3 years ago. I wish you'd be right just once derryb, just once.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Ted Butler: The Seriousness Of The Latest Silver Scandal
"It’s been reported by Bloomberg that the Justice Department asked a judge overseeing a civil antitrust case against JPMorgan to postpone the case for six months “to protect the integrity” of its ongoing criminal probe. This indicates that the Justice Department is serious about pursing the matter of a silver price manipulation and JPMorgan’s involvement."
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
CFTC, SEC and FINRA are all toothless regulators and are blindfolded as they perform their "oversight". No surprise here, all markets are manipulated...
cohodk and derryb are like that ol' married couple who fuss all the time, but never get a divorce.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Even with manipulation, opportunities exist, to make money. Those silly manipulators won't stop us.
WOW!
but they are slowing us down.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Why does this matter, and if it matters, why doesn't it make us want to Sell our metal and don't be involved at all in a corrupt market?
Seems anything but bullish for PMs
It matters if you are holding bullion and the corruption is finally rooted out. That would be bullish.
I knew it would happen.
That doesn't really seem to be a prudent investment strategy. Is hoping for this a "fundamental"?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
probably the only strategy for the poor suckers who got in before knowing they were playing against a stacked deck.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
It matters if you are holding bullion and the corruption is finally rooted out. That would be bullish.
That doesn't really seem to be a prudent investment strategy. Is hoping for this a "fundamental"?
There's the financial industry, and there's math. I choose math over the financial industry. Math is more trustworthy. The financial industry has no integrity and they change the rules whenever they are losing.
probably the only strategy for the poor suckers who got in before knowing they were playing against a stacked deck.
There's no time limit on the decision to hold bullion instead of paper or electrons. Whether the deck is stacked or not, bullion is real, and accountable. Not much else is, especially paper and electrons. Simple as that.
The fundamental value of precious metals is that as long as you have physical possession, they remain yours.
I knew it would happen.
One problem for physical silver is the yuge overhead supply...
I'd wager there are a lot of ounces that are for sale in the $20-35 range. Right here on the forum😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
30 years is max what will be the sentence?
Math...don't know what numbers you use but I do think 15 is less than 50.
Derryb....those poor sucker's were warned. Have no sympathy for them.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
What math were this guy's bosses using? "Screw the clients - it's okay as long as you don't get caught." That math?
Former JP Morgan trader pleads guilty to manipulating US metals markets for years
John Edmonds, 36, pleaded guilty to one count of commodities fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, price manipulation and spoofing.
Edmonds, a 13-year J.P. Morgan veteran, said that he learned how to manipulate prices from more senior traders and that his supervisors at the firm knew of his actions.
This problem goes away when average in over time and take delivery. And math, yes - 15 is less than 50. Know anyone that bought at 50? Me neither, although I did sell some at 36. 15 isn't a bad speculation.
I knew it would happen.
I bought all the way up to 38, but they were cool bullion coins and bars for my collection of sizes and designs
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
There's nothing dumb about buying when prices are somewhat depressed. Collections have their own justifications and criteria for purchase.
I knew it would happen.
More Fuel for the Fire: Deutsche Bank Crimes Can Cause Next Global Crisis
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Let's wait for cohodk to chime in that Bill Black is a conspiracy nut.
Martin Armstrong has some interesting things to say about the Euro, and capital flows in his October interview, so stocks may not be an entirely horrible choice. Except that you still depend on the system for execution, stability and integrity.
Tough choices, all around.
I knew it would happen.
He can try, but he's less than gum on the bottom of the shoe of the federal regulator who was a central figure in exposing Congressional corruption during the Savings and Loan Crisis. Black has written much about the failure to prosecute the 2008 crisis crooks. Would love to see him head up the CTFC.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I speculate this is all speculation about speculation.
So silver is speculative? You've been telling me it's a promise all these years. And an insurance policy. Why would anyone want a speculative insurance policy? Sounds sketchy to me.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You've been telling me it's a promise all these years.
Not true. There are no guarantees and you are putting words in my mouth, which doesn't help your credibility. Insurance policy - yeah, an insurance policy against government and banking malfeasance. Speculative? Yes, always.
Get your story straight before you put words in my mouth.
I knew it would happen.
It's easy to search these forums and see that you use the words promise and insurance quite frequently. CRS is a common disease.
I'm really not one on this forum who needs to prove credibility. Sorry.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
It's easy to search these forums and see that you use the words promise and insurance quite frequently
I call BS. Find such a quote where I use the word promise in relation to future precious metals prices. Try not to take my quotes out of context.
And note that my use of the word insurance refers to a specific type of insurance, which is the nature of most types of insurance. Surely you understand what insurance is.
I knew it would happen.
Verily. I wish you did.
Just as derryb talks of "naked short selling", he and those he propagates, try to portray a simple concept into something it isnt. It's all fake news.
PMs will rally when demand exceeds supply and relative value is extreme. Like you say, this isnt rocket science.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
PMs will not rally without a paper rally. Paper is currently controlled by those naked shorts. The supply of shorts is extreme.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Another squeaky clean brain.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear