A most diminutive contemporary counterfeit - Mexico 1843 1/4 real
WorldCoinsDmitry
Posts: 367 ✭✭✭
By far the smallest CC I've ever come across. The date looks most like 1843, but could also be a 5. No visible mint/assayer. Weight is ~0.66 grams compared to reference 0.845. Very crude design and portrait is off center in relation to the dentils. It is also in medal alignment instead of coin alignment. The edge is plain and slightly rough. I wanted to include a picture, but the coin is too small and thin to get a clear edge photo with my iphone camera. I'm uncertain of the material. It does appear to have some reaction on a magnetic slide at a 45 degree angle, but that may be partly due to friction and the coin being so thin and light. My guess is either highly debased silver alloy or some form of copper-nickel-tin.
And just for fun a genuine example of the type (images from CoinFactsWiki).
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff 
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I'd doubt there being nickel in it, at that time it was a fairly difficult and exotic metal to work with. But those are very cool little coins.
Not at all. If this is made of German silver, then it would be an alloy of copper-nickel-zinc. This alloy was advertised in North America's by at least 1829 on household utensils. It was later used in coinage/tokens by at least 1837 with Feuchtwanger Cents; I don't have a record of this alloy being used before 1837 for coins/tokens in the U.S. The earliest definitive account I've found of German silver being used by U.S. counterfeiters was the following year, 1838, and its use exploded after that.
This piece is super cool. The use of medal alignment could indicate that it was made in the States, rather than Mexico/Central America. This would not be far-fetched since Spanish coinage of all denominations was common in the States, and was also commonly counterfeited - albeit more commonly with 2 and 8 reales, but certainly lesser denominations could have been a target as they were for U.S. half-dimes and three-cent silver pieces.
Thanks for the insight! An American counterfeiter may also explain the lack of mint and assayer marks.
It could well be German silver or even the earlier paktong. I don't own an XRF and am not willing to pay for the service, so I rely on more indirect methods to make a [hopefully] educated guess
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
Interesting!
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Wow, agree very interesting. I'm unfamiliar with very low denomination contemporary counterfeits, but if I'm correct a 1/4 R would be the equivalent to about 3 1/8 cents. Very similar to the US silver 3c piece. After the cost of the materials and effort, how much profit to the counterfeiter would there be to each coin? Seems like a big run of these fakes would be needed to make it a worthwhile venture. Then again, this was the mid 1840's.
Jeff
In high enough quantity they could probably make about 50% (assuming German silver) if distributing these themselves, or about 20-30% if selling pieces to a middle-man who would take more of the risk when passing these off in circulation, or again selling them to other 'shovers/pushers'.
There were a couple of 3 cent silver (US) counterfeiters who had 10,000's of counterfeit 3cS pieces when they were apprehended in upstate NY. These 3cS counterfeits are the most common varieties/examples in existence today, therefore it is likely that the OPs piece was made in much smaller quantities given its apparent rarity.
Wow
Thanks for the knowledge @Koinicker
Given the apparent rarity, perhaps an early trial piece struck or part of a very small group made before the venture was given up.
Jeff
I have seen lately many counterfeit Mexican coins from Russia. I wonder...
Are you referring to things like this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coin-8-Reales-1822-Mexico/292806217466?hash=item442c9c4efa:g:vVcAAOSw3BJb4eqf
Seeing a lot of this in recent months, but they all have that familiar look that gives them away even when the price point doesn't.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
@WorldCoinsDmitry that is one example. But others are more similar to this coin.
@Abuelo can you please post one? Very curious
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/992688/central-american-iturbide-coin#latest
Very odd piece. I don't think it can be definitively said that it's modern or of Russian origin from the photos alone. Honestly I don't know what to make of that one. That is one piece you need to have in hand to draw any real conclusions.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
@WorldCoinsDmitry but was Russian. Believe me there. I should know. I got it as I was curious and then returned it.
@Abuelo was it being sold by someone who had other modern counterfeits in their inventory? There are a large number of both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Latin American coins in Russia, same as China. I hope that where it was purchased from was only minor factor in determining what it is, because that is one of the most misleading things when taken alone.
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
When I bought it it was the only coin. Soon enough, several, all very suspicious. I have to tell you that he gave me no grief for the return.
I'd have loved to examine it just out of curiosity. If several identical examples came out then yes that is pretty damning. Certainly doesn't look genuine, but a lot to be gained from looking at it as modern vs contemporary fake, regardless of which it is
Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff
Thanks for sharing that item. I think there are a lot more fakes of all sizes out there that originate from the pieces used to make jewelry. When I walk the flea market, I see them in necklaces, bracelets, belts, etc. IMO. This is why one must pay attention and participate in CU. Peace Roy
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From the "fabric" of this piece, it's almost certainly contemporary - nice example.
Below are four additional examples I've seen over the years. All fabulously crude and almost certainly contemporary.
Then this piece, which overall looks to be a perhaps slightly modified cast of a genuine piece, seeing as the design is fairly accurate. It could possibly simply be a piece cast for a necklace/bracelet... though the jewelry pieces I've seen in the past that display these silver Mex. Republic cuartillos are typically done from genuine coins:
Gorgeous CCF examples!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Amazing. I cannot believe anyone bothered with these back then.
As someone stated above, contemporary counterfeits of USA 3c pieces are QUITE prevalent... so not totally shocking.
Also, think of how many contemporary counterfeits of Mexican state coppers exist!! Mexico City "federal" pieces are of course most common, but there are also CCs of other mints.
Coppers were counterfeit with some frequency. That is also puzzling to me given the low purchasing power.
"Low purchasing power" = "less scrutiny", maybe?
And a better grade real one to compare them to!
