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Central American Iturbide coin

AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Hello chaps,

I am being offered this coin. It is supposed to be from the period when Honduras was part of Mexico. As you can see by the catalogue picture, this is a rare issue. But also, as you can see the coin is in poor shape and therefore it is hard to compare. Not to mention that the weight is a bit low. It measures 2.1 mm and weights 4.8 g. If this is an original, the condition would be irrelevant due to rarity, but if not, well, one does not want to waste the money. Comments? Thanks!





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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As you can see, the catalog mentions should be 21-22 mm and 5.1-5.6 grams.

    Thanks again!

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting coin. I would recommend reaching out to Carlos Jara or Kent Ponterio for an opinion. I have never seen an example of this issue, but will point out that the coin being offered does not match the dies illustrated in the reference.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree about the dies. I emailed Carlos but did not reply. I also emailed Roberto Jovel as you know an expert in Central American coins. He was not convinced was good but was also not committed either way.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,345 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do you really want to own a coin that looks that bad ... even if it is rare?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    Do you really want to own a coin that looks that bad ... even if it is rare?

    Well, there are like 5 known... So if legit, yes.

  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As @TwoKopeiki mentioned, that coin doesn't seem to match up with the catalog illustration. Look at the bottom right of the neck... the coin has a sharp corner whereas the book picture is rounded off. Unless you really must have this variety, given the condition and identification issues, I would take a pass on this deal.

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mvs7 said:
    As @TwoKopeiki mentioned, that coin doesn't seem to match up with the catalog illustration. Look at the bottom right of the neck... the coin has a sharp corner whereas the book picture is rounded off. Unless you really must have this variety, given the condition and identification issues, I would take a pass on this deal.

    I tend to agree. I am more concerned about the eagle side. Thanks.

  • WashingtonianaWashingtoniana Posts: 278 ✭✭✭

    I have no experience with Iturbide coins, but this is something you see all the time in Russian counterfeits - a hole and scrapes made to deceive. In my opinion, this looks like damage purposely made to draw attention away from imperfect casting and differences from the authentic design. Why does the hole look machined? Why would anyone hole that coin in modern times? The holed coin in the reference book makes more sense because it looks like it was made with a nail soon after minting. Trust your gut.

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Washingtoniana said:
    I have no experience with Iturbide coins, but this is something you see all the time in Russian counterfeits - a hole and scrapes made to deceive. In my opinion, this looks like damage purposely made to draw attention away from imperfect casting and differences from the authentic design. Why does the hole look machined? Why would anyone hole that coin in modern times? The holed coin in the reference book makes more sense because it looks like it was made with a nail soon after minting. Trust your gut.

    You raise a very interesting issue about the hole, I did not think about it. Thanks @Washingtoniana .

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 12:06PM

    @Washingtoniana said:
    Why does the hole look machined? Why would anyone hole that coin in modern times? The holed coin in the reference book makes more sense because it looks like it was made with a nail soon after minting. Trust your gut.

    That hole was made most likely with a power tool and LONG after the wear on the coin took place. There is little if any wear on the hole.

    Also, the edges of the coin look sharp - not worn as it the rest of the design.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It...ur...be...de...ummph. :D

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Take a look to this one @WorldCoinsDmitry Russian fake...

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a high grade and modern fake of this coin back home. It will be interesting to see if they're from the same dies. I'll post images of it in a couple of weeks if I remember, or if someone reminds me.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • WorldCoinsDmitryWorldCoinsDmitry Posts: 367 ✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    I have a high grade and modern fake of this coin back home. It will be interesting to see if they're from the same dies. I'll post images of it in a couple of weeks if I remember, or if someone reminds me.

    I'll remind you :)

    Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff <3

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That drill bit hole is the kiss of death. More importantly, and what our colleagues have noted otherwise. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    Came back across this thread again while Googling something else - this was back when I only "lurked" here.

    The guy who peddled this piece listed numerous counterfeits (purportedly out of Kazakhstan) under a couple diff IDs on eBay and DelCampe. He listed numerous seemingly, um, hand-crafted fakes of various scarce Latin American Independence-era types, plus other types of coinage.

    This is most of what I saw... first, Central American types:

    then assorted other Latin American:

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    @Washingtoniana said:
    I have no experience with Iturbide coins, but this is something you see all the time in Russian counterfeits - a hole and scrapes made to deceive. In my opinion, this looks like damage purposely made to draw attention away from imperfect casting and differences from the authentic design. Why does the hole look machined? Why would anyone hole that coin in modern times? The holed coin in the reference book makes more sense because it looks like it was made with a nail soon after minting. Trust your gut.

    Yes, this!

    @MrEureka said:
    I have a high grade and modern fake of this coin back home. It will be interesting to see if they're from the same dies. I'll post images of it in a couple of weeks if I remember, or if someone reminds me.

    Ever happen to have get pics of that piece??

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