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What is the oldest slabbed copper coin that has the Red designation?
dirtygold
Posts: 31 ✭✭
Someone here showed a beautiful red large cent in a PCGS slab graded with the RD designation in another thread. I was wondering what is the oldest copper coin that's been slabbed with the RD designation?
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Was the PCGS MS69 Chain a RED? If not, then I'm going to guess probably some type of copper cent minted after that.
It is most likely a foreign coin or token that predates the US Mint but it would be interesting to see both what the oldest US coin that is full red and the oldest world coin that is full red.
I've seen red duits from Holland dated in the 1720s.
I just checked PCGS Coin Facts which is a great resource and should be in every coin collectors favorites list. They show a red-brown chain cent in MS65 but no full red chain cents.
Then I am inclined to believe it was a cent minted after that.
This is the earliest one I'm aware of...
I have often pondered this question myself
Steve
Going with the 69 chain cent, another coin graded at the same time was a 1793 wreath cent graded SP-68RD that still comes up in Coinfacts with no picture. Though there was a famous picture of those high grade early cents together that I haven't seen in a while.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
One wonders how these coins were preserved so well....200+ years is a long time and they must have changed hands a few times. Yet they are still in remarkable condition. Amazing. Cheers, RickO
There is no PCGS MS69 Chain cent. There is a PCGS MS69 Wreath Cent, but it is brown. I believe @abcde12345 was thinking about the SP68RED Wreath Cent, which is seen in the photo below:
PCGS Coin Facts lists a 1787 Fugio cent with a RD designation but there is no picture available. I'd love to see this coin.
According to the PCGS Population report, that RD Fugio cent was a New Haven restrike, so definitely not struck in the 1700's. (PCGS dates the New Haven restrikes to 1859.)
This may be the RD Fugio Cent you were referring to, as it may have crossed over from an NGC holder:
PCGS Coin Facts lists a regular strike Fugio as being Red.
Latin American Collection
Perhaps so, but Coinfacts is not updated as frequently than the Pop Report, which is updated daily. There is no RED Fugio cent in the Pop Report.
if you owned one of these coins, wouldn't you be terrified that the color would change?
IMO, 200 year old copper should NEVER be red!
Dave
There are a few colonials that are graded red older than the chain.
Now that's a good start on my box of 20.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Red Fugio’s definitely exist. They just haven’t been slabbed. Many colonial collectors(especially the older collectors) prefer to have their coins raw no matter what the grade.
Copper is one of the more reactive metals used in minting coins. Unless these coins were held in some special atmospheric condition, how can they retain mint luster all of these years without oxidizing?
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Old copper and red do not go tougher in my book.
When I say "old copper", well, anything pre 1900 should be a pleasant chocolate brown, and hint of red will be acceptable...but not to much red.
There's an NGC red coin from the late 1600s (I think French). I have seen 200+ year old foreign copper in red that look (and are) completely natural
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Can I have a peak at your 200+ year red coin?
Not mine, but these are some that are red or partially red:
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
And here are some almost 200 year old coins that are fully red:
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
There was an 1800 Half cent that graded red early last year, sold thru heritage by a national dealer. It came from the NC area from a private collection.
25 or 30 years ago, you could dip copper bright red and they would be graded. Not anymore. If some of those old coins as red were cracked and submitted now, forget about it! They never will be though.
I dispute this.
I was reading that at one time collectors would dip copper coins in cyanide which would give them a red color. Is anyone here familiar with this practice and how convincing were the results produced? As a side note, I read that a famous coin collector (J. Sanford Saltus) was sitting at his desk dipping some copper coins in a glass of cyanide. He also had a glass of ginger ale on his desk. While admiring his coins he drank what he thought was his ginger ale but grabbed the wrong glass. He died as a result in 1922.
Many of those British pieces came out of a single roll stored in ideal conditions. When I was living there a local dealer found a roll of gem red unc 1841 1/2P. I picked one up for myself.
Latin American Collection
These were from the James Watt Jr. Estate, and were kept "raw" by the family, but sheltered in custom-made copper shells that were gold-plated inside. The copper shells toned to brown, but they preserved the mint red color of the coins themselves.
While not struck in proof format, this one was likewise preserved:
@dirtygold Re Mr. Saltus's death: As I recall, the ANS's magazine published an article a few years back that rather convincingly argued that he died by suicide rather than by accident. But, in truth, who knows? He left no note, so it's not possible to tell for sure.
Rick, what are you disputing - that you can't dip copper to make it red again? that there are dipped red coins in holders? or that people are cracking dipped red coins and getting them upgraded? Just curious. Thanks.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
@cardinal those are stunning!
200+ year old Ultra Cam red copper. Wow! I think I would try to get those housed in the new airtight slabs.