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Were Hard Times Tokens made for collectors in addition to intended usage?

SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

I found my first Hard Times Token in an antique shop todayI it’s HT 293. It got me wondering, were Hard Times Tokens also made for collectors like the British Provincial/Conder tokens were, in addition to usage with the shortage of actual large cents?

Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

Comments

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your question prompted me to look in the introduction to the Dice-Hicks auction catalog. According to that, the shortage of circulating copper was the main reason for production of the HTT's, secondarily advertising and political. Numismatics didn't really catch on until the late 1850's in the US,and Low's catalog was published about 30 yrs later. So, from what I can find the answer is "no."

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2018 4:15AM

    Hard Times Tokens made up for about 30% of the Federal Minted Cents missing in circulation for daily commerce during the early 1830's trough mid 1840's. Thanks to HTT's filling the void it's easy to find many large cents today in high grades as they had been set aside. Tokens being struck with collectors in mind didn't start in America around around 1860.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭✭

    Broadstruck, Great Post!

    Thanks

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @Broadstruck.... Interesting thread....I wonder if the Tontine was ever settled? And was it challenged? Cheers, RickO

  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭✭

    So if I'm reading this correctly the modern world for lunch came from the 1pm punch at the Tontine. Neat fact.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tyler267 said:
    So if I'm reading this correctly the modern world for lunch came from the 1pm punch at the Tontine. Neat fact.

    I wrote that 8 years ago, but that was tidbit I found while researching.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2018 7:03AM

    Mmmmmm Lemonade and cod fish.... :s

    Thank you for the replies, everyone!
    Wonderful history lesson, @Broadstruck Thank you very much, I didn’t know collecting started so much later in the US. I didn’t realize there were three different numbers for the design either, I guess I’m not sure which one I got! I’ll photograph it today and share the photos. Mine has a bit of damage but I’m ok with it. If anything I’m curious at how.

    The history of these are fascinating, both why the coins were made, and the storied I gather each design has. Two history lessons in one!

    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here it is!


    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:
    The first five trustees for the 203 shareholders who were to meet every year in the Tontine Coffee House were John Broome, Gulian Verplanck (the elder), John Delafield, William Laight and John Watts.

    John Broome was the son of Samuel Broome, who was James Jarvis's father-in-law and backer in the Company for Coining Coppers. The CCC was the entity that got the Fugio contract. While Jarvis was in Europe trying to buy copper to coin the Fugios. Samuel Broome ran the company, using 30 tons of the U.S. government's copper to coin Connecticut coppers, which were more profitable. When Jarvis couldn't buy copper on time in Europe, the CCC was in pretty serious trouble.

    As far as the OP's original question, there probably weren't nearly enough collectors in North America at the time to warrant making collectible tokens - widespread coin collecting didn't develop here for another 20 years or so...


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My guess is the dies for the Hard Times Tokens no longer existed when coin collecting really got started here. The dies for the 1848, 1852 and probably 1856 presidential election campaigns did exist and were used to make restrikes of those tokens.

    Here is an example. This Winfield Scott token was from the original campaign.


    And this is a restrike which was made circa 1860.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Regulated Fascinating, thank you for the insight! It amazes me that so much information can still be discovered. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that letters and documents still exist that people can piece the history back together with, but I'm always in awe when some of you post the historical back story on topics!

    @BillJones Interesting that the restrikes are nicer than the original. I assume when they decided they wanted to make new medals they would go back and rework the dies in some way?

    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2018 11:18AM

    The restrikes are almost always better looking than the original pieces. The original pieces were very often made in white metal, which was only intended to last for the duration of the presidential campaigns. White metal was cheap, soft and easy to strike, but it was also easily worn and scratched, and it was subject to tin pest.

    The bumps you see on the first piece are arrested tin pest. It has been my observation that if an infected medel is properly stored, the tin pest stops. If it goes into a bad environment, it starts up again. John Kralvitch has seen the same thing and agreed with me some years ago.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    The restrikes are almost always better looking than the original pieces. The original pieces were very often made in white metal, which was only intended to last for the duration of the presidential campaigns. White metal was cheap, soft and easy to strike, but it was also easily worn and scratched, and it was subject to tin pest.

    The bumps you see on the first piece are arrested tin pest. It has been my observation that if an infected medel is properly stored, the tin pest stops. If it goes into a bad environment, it starts up again. John Kralvitch has seen the same thing and agreed with me some years ago.

    I had never heard of tin pest. Just read up on that. I didn't know that existed in coins and wondered what those dots were!

    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

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