Home U.S. Coin Forum

Good Intentions, Unexpected Side Effects, on a Police Wanted Post for using a “Counterfeit $10 bill”

Note – The names of the two police individuals involved in this story were changed to aliases. I was extremely pleased with the interaction with them and my respect for our police was greatly increased.

I spent the past 30 years involved with probably our country’s oldest and greatest hobby, coin collecting. I have written fifty-three books on numismatics, covering many of our vast series produced in the United States. I have spent thousands of hours in the National Archives going through hundreds of thousands of documents of those individuals who created, collected, and used our coinage with the objective of accurately presenting the history relating to coinage from those individuals responsible for it. I have uncovered many of the great mysteries that form the lure and stories of our coinage. My real job is a software engineer, I have a masters in engineering and have been working in this field for the past 32 years. The core of software engineering is solving problems, which is my strongest attribute, and which I use when figuring out unsolved mysteries in coins. Researching and writing books was not for profit, but as the true essence of the hobby is the discovery and sharing of knowledge. I have taught classes and done seminars on coins. One of my big goals was to inspire new collectors to join in our hobby, especially kids, for without our hobby will wither away as stamps has progressed down that death spiral path. Many kids today focus on games and other toys on their phones and computers. Some of the books I have written were specifically for kids, while others were to teach parents, coin show organizers, clubs, and coin dealers how to help inspire kids to collect coins.

Sometimes I use Buffalo nickels (struck 1913 through 1938) or Lincoln cents with the wheat back reverse (struck 1909 through 1958) in change. It’s neat to see the response of those receiving, usually a look of excitement. Our coins represent and reflect our country’s history. The images tell us of those places, people, events, and things that are important to past. I have found over the years that when coins, or even silver or gold are used as an investment, they are simply an object with the objective of making money. When there is a connection made to the symbology as to what the coin represents, or a time period in which they were struck, then is a much great enjoyment and respect of the coin.

Recently I went some old currency I had and separated out those that I considered to be of little or no value above the face value of the currency, i.e. a $20 bill was worth $20. I could have just went to a bank and traded them in for new bills. I decided instead to use them in circulation. This was done as 1. They are legal tender, irrelevant of whether they are older style currency. For example, a $2 bill was printed the last time in 1976, it is still legal tender. 2. My hope was to inspire people to see them, find them cool, keep them, and start collecting. It is always fun to watch someone lighten up when you had them a Two dollar bill, normally I would see them put their own money in the register and keep the bill. I would normally wait there while they examined to see if there was any questions regarding the bill such as if it was worth a premium. In 30 years I have never had a problem in using old coins or currency in circulation to pay for merchandise or services (such as a tip). Until now.

I am knowledgeable in identifying counterfeit coins for series that I have researched. For rare coins, such as the 1894-S Barber dime, where only 24 coins were struck at the San Francisco Mint in 1894, there was only one pair of working dies that was used to strike all 24 coins. Therefore all 24 coins will reflect those diagnostics from the working dies used to strike them. For example, during this period, the date was hand struck into the obverse of each working die. The size and shape of the digits and the relative location between the denticles and design elements is important in identifying coins struck from a specific die. In the Mercury dime series, the rarest date and mint mark is a 1916-D Mercury dime, a coin in the lowest grade can cost $600; this coin is one of the more commonly struck in counterfeit. There was only four sets of working dies used to strike all 1916-D dimes. In identifying all diagnostics on all four dies, this can be used to identify genuine coins.

I understand the basics on currency, but do not have an expertise in identifying counterfeits. Besides the obvious of bills such as: that were never printed such as a four dollar bill; if a modern $20 bill had an image other than Andrew Jackson; or if you see multiple bills of the same denomination with the same serial number. My knowledge on older bills is through reading descriptions on sites such as Wikipedia. From what I understand, the only branch of the government that can declare a United States bill counterfeit is the Treasury Department or United States Secret Service. Wikipedia is a great tool because for example on the Ten Dollar bill, it will describe all changes and show images of each of bills. For example, the 1950 Ten Dollar bill states: “1950: Many minor aspects on the obverse of the $10 Federal Reserve Note were changed. Most noticeably, the treasury seal, gray word TEN, and the Federal Reserve Seal were made smaller, the words WASHINGTON, D.C. were added between them and the serial number; also, the Federal Reserve seal had spikes added around it.” From the description and images, anyone should be able to generally identify the basics of the bills. It also states “1992: The first modern anti-counterfeiting measures were introduced with microscopic printing around Hamilton's portrait and a plastic security strip on the left side of the bill.” From this you understand that if you see a Ten Dollar bill printed before 1992, it will not have the plastic security strip.

What I did not contemplate or consider in using older currency for transactions is that individuals who did not know the United States used older currency that appeared different and had different attributes and characters. For example: there might be individuals who do not know that the United States has modified its currency over the years, such as the size, shape, font, and location of the lettering or the size, shape, location, color, and actual designs used, or the security measures included; there might be younger individuals who primarily use debit and credit cards have less experience with currency, especially with older currency; someone new in the country has not seen or dealt with older currency; someone uneducated. I have met some people who did not realize we have a $2 bill. Most individuals who I have used older currency with, such as an older $20 that contains a smaller image of Andrew Jackson have said that they remembered using the older $20s and recognized the bill. They also felt comfortable with the bill after it passed the basic counterfeit detection pen, which contains an iodine solution that reacts with the starch in the wood-based counterfeit paper and creates a black stain. With genuine bills, no discoloration occurs.

I went to the Dollar Tree store in my area to buy some basic stuff. The total for all items was $10. I used one of my old Ten Dollar bills. The Cashier looked over the bill then put it in the drawer, I stood there until she put the bill in the drawer. Had she questioned the bill’s authenticity, I would have gladly replaced with another or used my credit card.

On Friday October 12th, the local Sheriff’s Department office placed an article on their website showing a photo of me at Dollar Tree and a title stating that they were using seeking the individual for using a counterfeit $10 bill at Dollar Tree. This article was picked up by local online internet new.

I work as a Department of Defense (DoD) contractor with my title being Senior Computer Scientist, which requires a security clearance. On Monday, October 15th, because of flash flood warnings in my area, I came into work late, around 10:30, went to my desk and started working. Several of the people I worked with walked by, looked at me and kept going. I learned later that some had seen my image on the police web site and also the local internet news sites. They had spent the morning before I got there wondering if I was on the run to Mexico, whether the base police would arrive to arrest me a drag me out in cuffs, whether I would be going to prison, and so on. Those of course who knew me, knew this is something I would not do. Around noon, my one of the people I work with came up to me and asked if I knew that I was wanted by the police. I was confused as this was out of the blue and he offered to show me. He showed me the police website, which had my image in the counterfeit article. I saw the image and said that photo made me look fat. I saw and wrote down the contact information for Deputy Smith. I went to my car and called Deputy Smith, who did not answer, so I left a message with my name and phone number. I went to my house, picked up my books and drove to the Sheriff’s Office. I requested Deputy Smith and was told he was not on till second shift. I told the person at the desk I was the person in their article and asked whether to speak to someone else, which I was told no. There were two Deputies named Smith, who were brothers. Between 12 and 8 PM that night, I probably left about 30 messages to both Deputy Smiths’.

On the way to the Sheriff’s Office I called my wife and told her what happened and what I was doing, she jokingly asked whether she needed to bail me out, I said no, I was taking care of all issues. I always found you need to have a sense of humor sometimes, especially those times that might be stressful. It helps you to relax and focus on the problem.

After going to the Sheriff’s Department, I went directly to my company’s office. I walked in to my security officer’s room and sat down. He was getting off the phone from base security who were interested in this issue. He smiled at me, I went through my story, what my objective of using old money, that I heard this morning of the problem, and had just returned from the Sheriff’s Office, and that I would deal with this when the Deputy was on duty. The Security Officer said he heard of the problem from several individuals. He also stated that he believed I would not use counterfeit bills for the obvious reasons such as it would cause me to lose my clearance, job, and many other things. He also knew that I had written many books on coins, not currency, and that my expertise was on coins, not currency. That if I did use a counterfeit bill, it was accidental, not intentional. Obviously, anyone can pick up a counterfeit bill. Take for example you are at a bingo game, you win, you are given a $20 from them, which was given to them by someone else. It is of course possible that the $20 bill is counterfeit. Almost anything is possible, the important consideration is probability. The probability of your receiving a $20 bill is extremely low.

I went back to work, then rode my bike after work. At 8 PM, I called Deputy Smith’s number and did so every 10 minutes. Around 9, I called the Sheriff’s Department, spoke to a Lieutenant, stated who I was, and requested to speak to Deputy Smith, who was out on patrol. I then spoke to Deputy Smith and he said he could be at my house in 10 minutes. Deputy Smith spent about 20 minutes at my house, he was extremely professional, courteous, and respectful at all times. I told Deputy Smith of my involvement in coins, writing coin books, and objectives in using old coins and currency in circulation. I showed Deputy Smith the old currency I had in my possession at the time, all of which were dated after 1960. Deputy Smith requested to check them, then used the counterfeit detection pen to authenticate the bills. As I did not look at the bill before I used it, I asked Deputy Smith what year the Ten Dollar bill he had from Dollar Tree was, he said it was 1950. Deputy Smith said he look up the 1950 Ten Dollar bill on ebay and found it was worth a premium, which shocked me as I thought I had checked it and did not believe it to be worth more than $10. I checked later and found Deputy Smith was correct, the 1950 Ten Dollar bill was worth more. Before Deputy Smith came over, I had read through the Wikipedia page for United States Ten Dollar bills and learned that the $10 bill was frequently changed every few years, with some changes being minor and others more evident and easily identifiable. I asked Deputy Smith how he had identified the bill as a counterfeit. He stated that he looked for two primary characteristics on the bill. I explained to Deputy Smith that the Treasury Department frequently changed the look and feel of the bills and sometimes the security features. Deputy Smith stated that it was possible that he was mistaken that it was a counterfeit. I said to Deputy Smith that it is always possible that the bill is counterfeit, something that I picked up over the past 30 years, but that I would gladly take a polygraph that I had never made counterfeit money, and that if this bill was counterfeit, I did not know it was counterfeit.

In searching for “counterfeit bills” through yahoo, under the question “Do counterfeit pens work on all bills?” It stated “When the pen is used to mark genuine bills, the mark is yellowish or colourless. Such pens are most effective against counterfeit notes printed on standard printer or photocopier paper. The chemical properties of US banknotes prior to 1960 are such that marking pens do not work.” As the Ten Dollar bill was dated 1950, the counterfeit pen would not work for authentication.

The next morning I checked the Sheriff’s Department website and found that the article and my image were still on the site. The objective of the article was to seek the individual who used the bill at Dollar Tree. As I had clearly identified myself as the individual shown in the photo and the police had all of my contact information, there should have been no further need to display the article and my image. I contacted the person in charge of the website and requested the article be removed. The individual stated that it was their policy to leave the article on their site and that the upper Captains would have to approve any changes or removal.

I contacted Captain Carter at the Sheriff’s Department. Captain Carter said that he was in a meeting and would return my call. An hour later Captain Carter called back. I explained what occurred, why I used old bills, that I had spoken to Deputy Smith, that Deputy Smith stated that he was not absolutely positive that the bill was counterfeit, that my job required a security clearance, and that I have received a lot of grief over this situation, and that I would gladly take a polygraph regarding this. Captain Carter had reviewed the file and said that the bill would first have to be reviewed for authenticity by the Secret Service, who normally came down once a month, and then based upon the results, decide what would be done, for example if the bill was counterfeit, present the evidence to the Prosecutor to see if they wanted to pursue, and also that I would have to make restitution to Dollar Tree and such. We spoke for about 30 minutes, during which Captain Carter was professional and obviously wanted to make sure the rules were followed, but he was also came across as understanding of my dilemma, and thanked me for being fully cooperative. The article was updated to state that the individual had been identified, but still stated that a counterfeit $10 bill had been used.

When I finished work and went to my car, I saw there was a message from Captain Carter. I called him immediately back. Captain Carter stated that he went down to the evidence room and examined the $10 bill and that he had believed it to be genuine. Captain Carter stated that he had ordered the article and image removed from their site, sent messages to the other internet news sites, and also requested a U.S. Treasury Department official to examine the bill for authenticity as soon as possible, and also assigned one of his senior Deputies to work on this. This was good news, which I immediately told my security officer and others at my work. Captain Carter also suggested that I write an article on this to help others understand about our old currency. He also stated that if needed, he would speak to my employers to state what happened and was being done.

That night I contacted through email the three local web sites that were carrying local police stories. I told them that I was the one in the photo. That I spoke to Deputy Smith and Captain Carter, including their contact info, stating that the police had taken the article off their site and to contact the two police individuals if they had questions. One responded and took it down, the second took it down the next day, and the third still currently has it up. I attempted to call them, the phone number listed was not in operation.

On Friday, Captain Carter emailed me to state that a person from the Treasury Department came down upon his request, examined the bill, and found the bill to be genuine. He said that the case was being closed as UNFOUNDED. Captain Carter provided some insight as to why older bills maybe counterfeited more often, he said: “Older currency provides difficulties. They are some of the most commonly counterfeited because they don’t have security features. The print quality is very erratic, like this one the front and the back don’t quite line up. Typically, we don’t run across mint or near mint condition 68 year old currency. It took the treasury agent about an hour to examine the bill to determine its authenticity.”

I was thrilled. Even though the original article stated that a counterfeit bill was used, I was extremely pleased on how quick and professionally the issue was resolved. I also believe part of being human is that we can all make mistakes. But IMO, one of the true tests of our humanity is how we deal with and resolve problems, challenges, and issues. I was awe struck when Deputy Smith said that he may have been wrong in calling the bill a counterfeit, IMO it showed courage, transparency, an open mind, and a desire to seek truth above all else. I grew up in Philadelphia and in my younger years had never heard a cop admit they might be wrong, even though the evidence was clear they were. Captain Carter checking of the bill himself and subsequent actions of removing the article from their web site and the expediting of the authentication of the bill clearly demonstrated and exemplified those positive qualities of our leaders who take actions towards the goal of truth and justice.

Based upon the stress involved with being accused of using counterfeit money when I had not, part of me considered just taking any old bills to the bank; this of course would be the easy solution. But then I think of those who enjoyed receiving our older currency when they receive it through transactions and I think of those who might start collecting when finding something they think is cool and it makes the aggravation and frustration for having to deal with those who don’t understand the history of our money feel less frustrating and tolerable. I decided though to be a little more selective on when and where to use old coins and bills. To make sure the individual who received the bill knows it is an older bill and understand it is still legal tender. It was funny, at a bar over the weekend, I used an older $20, the bar tender looked at the bill, swiped it with the pen and put it in the drawer. I said to her, you know that is an older $20, she looked at me and said, yeah, she remembered and knew from years past. I felt that I was almost coming across insulting, questioning her memory, but then she kind of laughed and I knew it was ok.

On the positive side, because of this I learned a lot more about our money, how much they have changed over the years and some of the security features that are used in the bills, such as the pens will not work on bills before 1960. Obviously there is still much more to learn. I went to the Sheriff’s Department and spoke with Captain Carter for about an hour. I was amazed about his level of knowledge on so many subjects from so many different life and work experiences. His instincts and understanding of our currency and counterfeiting were admirable; I enjoyed listening and learning. It brought a new sense of respect for our law enforcement. I donated several books that showed how to detect some of the more commonly counterfeit coins such as the 1916-D Mercury dime. The Sheriff’s Department issued an updated post on their website stating: “It was a 68-year-old, mint-condition bill with several printing irregularities, which led the cashier to believe that the bill was counterfeit. After further coordination and cooperation with US Treasury officials, the currency was authenticated.”

At my office I saw they were collecting money for breast cancer. As my wife’s family had several individuals who have had breast cancer I decided to donate $20. The VP of my section was walking by when I had a $20 bill out and jokingly said no, don’t take any money from Kevin, it might be counterfeit. Everyone laughed, it was all in good fun, I knew it would be a running joke for probably the next two years or so, but it’s all good as we know each other, care, and if it came down to it, have each other’s back.

Lessons learned, using the expression almost anything is possible, any currency could ‘possibly’ be counterfeit, but the probability of it being counterfeit is extremely low (1 in 10,000 bills). It is illegal to make counterfeit U.S. currency and to knowingly distribute counterfeit bills. It is not illegal if you accidentally distribute counterfeit currency if you did not know it was counterfeit. The most commonly counterfeited U.S. bills is the $100. Older U.S. currency is normally counterfeited more than new bills as there are less security features and more difficult to authenticate. The pens do not work on bills before 1960, the security strips were placed in bills in 1992. There are patterns placed in the bills which can be used to authenticate our currency. Older bills are sometimes found offset, especially compared to newer bills. The Secret Service or Treasury Department are the only U.S. departments that can absolutely determine if a bill is counterfeit. A great deal can be learned about older currency, such as how they look, what changes were made in what year on Wikipedia. It is better not to use older currency in places where the individuals might not know they are legal tender. If an issue does arise regarding the authenticity of the currency you used, quickly respond, cooperate, and provide details as needed to the police to resolve the issue quickly. Even though you have good intentions, you need to consider whether there would be side effects, as the Captain said how many people normally go around using old currency. Some people really enjoy receiving old money and old coins. This was stressful and draining, but I also learned a great deal about currency and counterfeits. You need to attempt to keep a sense of humor when stressed, helps to relax and deal with the situation. I love to write, but I knew this already.

Kevin

Kevin J Flynn
«1

Comments

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting story, must have been quite a scare, glad it worked out for you !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. I don't know what else to say.

    thefinn
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You win the prize for longest post ever. ;)

    I am sure it is a worthy read, so I'll check it out tomorrow when I am on a large screen.

  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting story but not surprising. It all comes down to the knowledge and ability of the first responding officer on whether step two happens or not.

    Did you know that green seal $2 bills come in series 1976, 1995, 2003 and 2013? Looks like you might have missed the newer ones.

  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @Batman23 said:
    Interesting story but not surprising. It all comes down to the knowledge and ability of the first responding officer on whether step two happens or not.
    Did you know that green seal $2 bills come in series 1976, 1995, 2003 and 2013? Looks like you might have missed the newer ones.

    Absolutely agree, that is exactly what happened, first officer did not know, believed it was counterfeit. The Captain had much more experience and believed it was genuine.
    I knew about the 1976 $2, was giving many of those away, did not know about the later yeas, also have $2 bills from 1928.

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    You win the prize for longest post ever. ;)

    I am sure it is a worthy read, so I'll check it out tomorrow when I am on a large screen.

    LOL, this is the cliff notes from the a week from stress and hell

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @slider23 said:
    I find it unacceptable that law enforcement would post your photo on the internet with a caption on passing a counterfiet bill without confirmation to the bill's authenticity.

    Yeah, that was the mistake, but they fixed quickly which was the reason I was good with everything.
    The big joke was those who responded to the article posted on the internet news sites, such as there was a special place
    in hell for those who counterfeit. Some people need to get a real life......
    I am glad I did not respond to those as I doubted that even the admission that the police authenticated the coins would have not changed their minds.......

    Kevin J Flynn
  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well written and interesting write up. From personal experience I can identify with being wrongfully accused, although my experience was very unpleasant and lasted considerably longer.
    It is a glorious feeling when vindicated. Absolutely wonderful!
    Thank you for sharing.

  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for sharing your experience. Grueling.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for recounting your adventure :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2018 3:49AM

    …..

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @MorganMan94 said:
    Is there a Sparknotes version of this book?

    I'm waiting for the movie version. ;):D

    far shorter

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for telling the story. I learned a lot.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great story and thank you for taking the time to share it. Interesting how quick so much of the public will 'convict' someone without evidence. Clearly, your situation needed to be researched by experts before a conclusion could be reached. Meanwhile, although the authorities rightly treated you as innocent until proof was presented, the comments by the public had you convicted. Great post Kevin, Thank you again. Cheers, RickO

  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Make that 53 books on numismatics and 1 book on currency.

    OMG, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, rolling on the floor laughing

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @Aspie_Rocco said:
    Well written and interesting write up. From personal experience I can identify with being wrongfully accused, although my experience was very unpleasant and lasted considerably longer.
    It is a glorious feeling when vindicated. Absolutely wonderful!
    Thank you for sharing.

    Because I have a clearance for my job I had to expedite, plus I am a little hyperactive and hyper focused

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Great story and thank you for taking the time to share it. Interesting how quick so much of the public will 'convict' someone without evidence. Clearly, your situation needed to be researched by experts before a conclusion could be reached. Meanwhile, although the authorities rightly treated you as innocent until proof was presented, the comments by the public had you convicted. Great post Kevin, Thank you again. Cheers, RickO

    I agree, some people feel empowered behind a keyboard, they should get a life......
    That was something I did not know, only the Secret Service or Treasury Dept can declare a bill counterfeit, curious how PCGS and NGC authenticates currency and those they call not real. Curious if they know all of the markers. Lots of questions.

    Kevin J Flynn
  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great article I do not read long posts. But your a great writer. Now I will have to see if I have any of your books. Do you have any good recommendations on some of your books. TYIA

  • rmorganrmorgan Posts: 249 ✭✭✭✭

    worth the time to read. Thanks for sharing your story. I know it was stressful going through it, but it seemed that most people were reasonable with you while they were obligated to follow through with their jobs. ..I hope you keep trying to spread the love of collecting to others. That is a good example for all of us.

    My strategy is about collecting what I intend to keep, not investing in what I plan to sell.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kevin, maybe it's just you! I have spent large size currency and fractional currency in my day, including once telling a cashier that I was a time traveler, and never once got arrested!
    o:)

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's nothing wrong with you, Kevin. You're a great guy.

    It's the uninformed rest of the world that's messed up.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Kevin, maybe it's just you! I have spent large size currency and fractional currency in my day, including once telling a cashier that I was a time traveler, and never once got arrested!
    o:)

    Hey Tom, Yeah, 30 years of doing the same, but even as a time traveler, did you ever do the same to Dollar Tree, have you ever done with someone who could have possibly been an alien, lesson learned for me. I really do try to be drama free.....

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @rmorgan said:
    worth the time to read. Thanks for sharing your story. I know it was stressful going through it, but it seemed that most people were reasonable with you while they were obligated to follow through with their jobs. ..I hope you keep trying to spread the love of collecting to others. That is a good example for all of us.

    Your right, the good over 30 years far outweighs this one bad incident

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @Gluggo said:
    Great article I do not read long posts. But your a great writer. Now I will have to see if I have any of your books. Do you have any good recommendations on some of your books. TYIA

    If you send me an email at kevinjflynn88@yahoo.com, will send you a list, let me know what series you enjoy
    Thanks

    Kevin J Flynn
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was on a trip two weeks ago and stopped off at a gas station in AZ I gave a casher a $100 bill she check it gave me my change. I put it in my pocket and took off they where the only $20 I had in my wallet after the change just before we got home we stopped to eat I pulled out the $20's to pay and saw one was counterfeit my wife looked at me because I pulled it back and played with my CC because I did not want to brake another $100 bill, later she asked why I did that.

    I then told her it looks fake she asked to see it and said it was that gas station we stopped at in AZ, I said yes but I took the bill and tossed it in the trash. I just did not want the hassle with it she looked at me like I was crazy. But trust me it was fake it was a good fake but you can tell had the look of a copied note but could not get the water mark right.



    Hoard the keys.
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    There's nothing wrong with you, Kevin. You're a great guy.

    It's the uninformed rest of the world that's messed up.

    Pete

    LOL, tell my wife and kids that
    My kids never touched coins as they thought I had a disease, working on books 5 hours a night....

    For some reason I like the saying, without conflict you cannot have true resolution

    One of the cool things that happened was, I donated several books, my Lincoln and Mercury, which went into
    the 1943 counterfeits, and 1916-D. One of the police departments new hires was a collector, who loved the books
    already

    Kevin J Flynn
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All seriousnous aside, have you talked to a lawyer about suing Dollar Tree for defamation of character?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:
    I was on a trip two weeks ago and stopped off at a gas station in AZ I gave a casher a $100 bill she check it gave me my change. I put it in my pocket and took off they where the only $20 I had in my wallet after the change just before we got home we stopped to eat I pulled out the $20's to pay and saw one was counterfeit my wife looked at me because I pulled it back and played with my CC because I did not want to brake another $100 bill, later she asked why I did that.

    I then told her it looks fake she asked to see it and said it was that gas station we stopped at in AZ, I said yes but I took the bill and tossed it in the trash. I just did not want the hassle with it she looked at me like I was crazy. But trust me it was fake it was a good fake but you can tell had the look of a copied note but could not get the water mark right.

    cool story, thanks for sharing, lesson learned me me, look at currency, do not assume, learn to tell what should be there.

    Kevin J Flynn
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    All seriousnous aside, have you talked to a lawyer about suing Dollar Tree for defamation of character?

    The way things are today they probably would get off for feigning ignorance.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    All seriousnous aside, have you talked to a lawyer about suing Dollar Tree for defamation of character?

    The way things are today they probably would get off for feigning ignorance.

    Pete

    That is not feigning ignorance. That is true ignorance!

    Seriously, talk to a lawyer!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    All seriousnous aside, have you talked to a lawyer about suing Dollar Tree for defamation of character?

    Dollar Tree did nothing wrong but contact local law enforcement about the suspicious note. The responding officer made a decision based on his knowledge (or lack thereof) at that time and grabbed the note and the video as part of his investigation. The law enforcement agency then posted a photo with with a request for information so they could look into this potential crime.

    I would be interested to know why you think Dollar Tree defamed Kevin and how he could win such a claim.

  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    All seriousnous aside, have you talked to a lawyer about suing Dollar Tree for defamation of character?

    Yeah, thought about it, but not worth the trouble
    I will never use them again, and anyone who asks me, I will suggest otherwise
    I doubt I would win for defamation as the responding officer also believed it was counterfeit, which he changed his
    mind after I spoke to him, the Captain looked at the bill and thought it was genuine, and obviously the Treasury Department guy said it was genuine, it was a learning experience for the deputy. I have never heard a cop say they might be wrong, but I grew up in Phila years ago and far away. In the end I felt good about helping the Deputy learn about these bills, whereas I considered Dollar Tree, IMO not worth trying.
    Also, understood their perspective, in all their years, the Captain said that when older bills were encountered, especially
    bills that looked new, they were either counterfeit or stolen. LOL, they never encountered someone like me or you before.....

    Kevin J Flynn
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is likely to happen more often than in the past. Why? Because there are not enough old folk left that remember these bills. Soon the Police will have to take the "fakes" to the old folks home to get them properly examined!
    Glad you got out of the scrape rather quickly and with all your fingers.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am glad you made it out OK ... thank you for sharing your experience B)

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Quite a story! You have way more patience than I do!

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kevinj said:

    That was something I did not know, only the Secret Service or Treasury Dept can declare a bill counterfeit, curious how PCGS and NGC authenticates currency and those they call not real. Curious if they know all of the markers. Lots of questions.

    With all due respect to you and the officer who said this, this is not true. It may be that the police department will only accept the word of the Treasury Dept., but any US paper money collector with any experience could have determined quite easily that the note was real. The details which confirm authenticity for various series are widely known. (The exception might be the so-called "Super Notes" - the counterfeit $100 notes that North Korea is suspected of making. Supposedly most of the Federal Reserve banks don't even have a reliable way to identify those).

    Years ago I worked at a convenience store and there was a noticed taped up behind the register warning the cashiers that a "counterfeit" $5 bill had been passed locally, and warning people to be on the lookout. A picture of the note was included and I recognized it as a series 1934 note, with the different text and a larger and lighter green seal than modern notes. I was certain that it was not fake but rather the subject of inexperienced people, as was the case in your saga.

  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭✭

    "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished" certainly applies here.

    We've all heard of stories from people trying to spend Ike's or Sacajawea dollars and being told by the cashier, "sorry, we only accept American money".

    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As an aside, I spend lots of funny money - $2 bills, dollar coins, half dollars, etc. - but it is almost always as part of a tip. I've never had a complaint. When it's their money on the line they tend to be more accepting. ;)

  • ParlousJoeParlousJoe Posts: 451 ✭✭✭

    Ok, I believe you that you have written 53 books first off, maybe 54 now after that read! lol

    Glad to hear that everything worked out for you on that $10 dollar bill, you went through a lot to find out that it was really a genuine note (that you already knew there wasn't anything wrong with it) but handled it very well and professionally. Glad to see that you are not in the clink for 10 because of a 10!!

  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    With all due respect to you and the officer who said this, this is not true. It may be that the police department will only accept the word of the Treasury Dept., but any US paper money collector with any experience could have determined quite easily that the note was real. The details which confirm authenticity for various series are widely known. (The exception might be the so-called "Super Notes" - the counterfeit $100 notes that North Korea is suspected of making. Supposedly most of the Federal Reserve banks don't even have a reliable way to identify those).

    Years ago I worked at a convenience store and there was a noticed taped up behind the register warning the cashiers that a "counterfeit" $5 bill had been passed locally, and warning people to be on the lookout. A picture of the note was included and I recognized it as a series 1934 note, with the different text and a larger and lighter green seal than modern notes. I was certain that it was not fake but rather the subject of inexperienced people, as was the case in your saga.

    You are right in general, I agree with your point, anyone with experience and knowledge should be able to identify counterfeit currency.

    Perhaps it is specific to the legal perspective, such as a police department declaring currency counterfeit, or filing charges to counterfeit currency that is the responsibility of the Treasury Dept or Secret Service. Something I am curious about and will look into.

    Thanks

    Kevin J Flynn
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am glad it all worked out but this really annoyed me:

    "I told the person at the desk I was the person in their article and asked whether to speak to someone else, which I was told no."

    If a dispatcher or deputy under my command told a wanted person or person of interest, "No, come back later" I'd relieve them of duty and tell them to come back later for their disciplinary hearing.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @ParlousJoe said:
    Ok, I believe you that you have written 53 books first off, maybe 54 now after that read! lol

    Glad to hear that everything worked out for you on that $10 dollar bill, you went through a lot to find out that it was really a genuine note (that you already knew there wasn't anything wrong with it) but handled it very well and professionally. Glad to see that you are not in the clink for 10 because of a 10!!

    Actually I knew I used a $10, but did not remember anything about it, such as the year. The officer told me 1953 $10 which
    I was not to happy about because they are worth more and I was mad at myself for not checking it better. Turns out it
    was a 1950. It is always possible it was counterfeit, as I picked up these and other old bills over the past 30 years, it is
    always possible I picked up a counterfeit, but I knew the probability was extremely low. What I knew and would have taken
    a polygraph to was that if it was a counterfeit, I did not know it was a counterfeit. Lesson learned to learn what to look for
    and check bills better.

    Yeah, it is amazing what jail time you can get for counterfeiting, or reusing an stamp........

    Kevin J Flynn
  • kevinjkevinj Posts: 972 ✭✭✭

    @PhillyJoe said:
    "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished" certainly applies here.

    We've all heard of stories from people trying to spend Ike's or Sacajawea dollars and being told by the cashier, "sorry, we only accept American money".

    Amazing, I believe in part being a coin collector, we collect in part our history, which IMO makes us more of an American IMO

    Kevin J Flynn
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't beat yourself up over the officer's suggestion that it was worth more than$10. My guess is that it wasn't. Most collectors of modern currency want examples in pristine condition unless there is something extremely special about it.

    At least you have a good story to tell people. That's the best part of living an interesting or eventful life.

  • TennisCoachTennisCoach Posts: 301 ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2018 12:06AM

    Kevin, you are a very "glass is half full" kind of guy. Issues like this one are best resolved through education on what is being examined and how to identify its authenticity. The series date of 1950 was the first clue that the note may not have the same security features as a modern day note (security strip, cotton/linen fibers without starch, microprinting details (although some older issue bills did use a form of microprinting), etc.) I think if a numismatist had been brought in or called for a consult this matter could have been resolved rather quickly. I understand the police have a very tough job and want to be on top of matters quickly. They also need to realize there are a massive amount of 1950 $10 Federal reserve notes still in collectors hands. Some of these collections will be passed to their offspring who may choose to spend them. I have made a purchase using a 1950 $10 Federal Reserve note. I am sure my father has spent hundreds of them because he was born before 1950. All Federal Reserve notes as well as other paper currencies produced by the bureau of Engraving and Printing are still legal tender at face value today. There are also a number of other 1928, 1934, and 1950 series notes and denominations that will be spent in the future. It is not efficient to call a U.S Secret Service agent for authentication every time one of these notes are used for purchase. I think your precinct now has the knowledge to handle things differently when older notes are exchanged for goods and services.

    Family, Neighborhood, Community,
    make the World a better place.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file