Does "AU" mean "Almost Uncirculated" or "About Uncirculated?"
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,516 ✭✭✭✭✭
Likewise does "EF" mean "Extra Fine" or "Extremely Fine?" and so on down the scale?
Looking at the two majors' websites all I see are the letter abbreviations (AU, EF, etc.) because obviously they do not wish to face this question (can't say that I blame them).
Should "Proof" be abbreviated as "PF" or "PR?" Should "Poor" be identified as "PO" or "PR?" Obviously the former affects the latter and vice versa.
I am sure we have gone round this mulberry bush before, and if anybody has a link to an earlier discussion please post it.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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Comments
When I sell, Always Uncirculated,
When I buy, About Uncurculated.
About, extremely, PR, and PO for me.
How about 'already uncirculated now almost uncirculated'.
Almost Uncirculated
Extremely Fine
PF
PO
IMO
...and it's XF, not EF, dontyaknow?!?
I think Almost Circulated is a better term bcause 'About Uncirculated' to me means not as yet circulated
PF
AG and AU....both 'about'. At least traditionally. Now that the world has gone crazy, you can call anything, anything you want.
I concur.
"THEY", imo, need to either drop the one or two word adjectives in grades, and just say a number from 0 through 70, 9r else enable the addition of several more words that accurately describe and represent the state of preservation 9f the coin.
Far too many pieces, especially older higher grade rare coins, are AU but worth MS, or Unc but net grade (worth) AU or XF or VF due to handling. Lots of coins are illiquid because they're hard to describe accurately on a little tag.
Almost.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I was at a PCGS lunch once when QDB let fly with an unstoppable stream of consciousness about this, among other things, insisting that EF was correct because "extremely" starts with an E.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
The ANA grading guide uses Extremely Fine, and About Uncirculated. World grading scales prefix various grades with 'a' to mean 'about.'
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Either about uncirculated or almost uncirculated are equally acceptable. Its just like the circulated grade extremely fine which is sometimes called extra fine. When you hear either term, --about or almost, extremely or extra -- there is no confusion as most collectors have heard these interchangeable terms over the years. Another similarity is collectors using the term “double die” instead of “doubled die”. The first term is incorrect but is kind of accepted in the numismatic lexicon.
Whether you use “double” or “doubled” die the same meaning is usually correctly conveyed. If for example you say
“1916 double die obverse nickel” it conveys the same meaning as “1916 doubleD die obverse nickel” with little if any confusion. In my opinion based upon what I have picked up over the years actually “double die” is a bit more commonly used than “doubled die” though technically incorrect.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Geez, Henway. Get out much?
EVERYBODY who's ANYBODY knows it's ALLEGEDLY Uncirculated.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I've always known it to be "about" uncirculated. I don't know who the ultimate authority is on that.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Isn't gEF=AU?
What does the Red Book say?
I call a coin AU and value and/or price it according to how choice it is. I have bigger fish to fry rather than to spend my time deciding what specific adjective to use on a coin. I must admit that this topic has never come up in discussion with the people that I buy from in all my years of collecting colonial and federal coins.
...only thing I can add is that if somebody “about paid me” then they are in a slightly better position than somebody that “almost paid me”...hope that helps
I always thought it a little weird that all the grades you can give a coin are positive adjectives but Poor. From Poor to
Fair
About Good
Good
Very Good
Fine,
Very Fine,
Exstemely Fine,
About Uncirculated
MS
I mean to me, a coin has to be pretty darn nice for even the word “Good” to ring in my head! Good would have quite a bit of meat worn off. In my mind, a coin that’s low MS is About Good and say a MS 65, Very Fine and something over 66 is Extremely Fine! I think that’s solid words to call them, but that’s just me, maybe because I’m not collecting early large cents but things that can come mint state and still relatively affordable.
I always pictured an old timey coin dealer came up the the grading adjectives to get coins sold and somewhere along the way, they stuck.
They ought to go
Awful
Ok
Decent
Pretty nice
Very nice
Awesome!
Holy Cow!!
Holy Effing Sheet!!
Finest Known. Period.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Almost unused !!!
I'll never forget when early on at the forum I posted a coin and asked grade opinions.
One of the respected old-timers said that he graded it $1000.00.
Everything else is just semantics.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I suppose that as long as buyer and seller understand the description accurately, anything goes. The key is honest disclosure to ensure fairness to all parties, imo.
For me, it's-
XF = Extremely Fine
- for example PR70DCAM)
- for example PO01)
AU = About Uncirculated
PR = Proof (because that's what PCGS does
PO = Poor (again, because that's what PCGS does
After 40+ years in the hobby, I don't care a whole lot about the "why" it's that way. I just understand what those terms represent. That's just me.
Plain ol' numbers make the most sense IMO but would be confusing to those who use letters.
At a PCGS show luncheon not long ago, as QDB closed his remarks he added, as an aside, "everyone knows it's EF not XF". Huh. I like XF.
AU is "about uncirculated". It's a lousy description but original.
I like "PR", not "PF".
Not sure about "poor". I've never owned one.
Lance.
>
An old time jeweler that I worked for many years ago lamented that all the diamond grades short of flawless included the word imperfect. Try selling a $20k stone to a fresh faced customer that is very very slightly imperfect.
The coins guys were better marketers.
This is what I have always used.
Oh, part of that is Marketing.
I once ordered a Small Coke..
"We don't have Small, or Medium..
We only have Large, Extra Large, and Jumbo."
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Approaching uncirculated
"Proof" (no matter how abbreviated) is not a grade. It's a method of manufacture.
With grade inflation over the years, Almost Uncirculated makes more sense than About Uncirculated.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The ANA created a book called the grading guide years ago. In it these things are each clarified. Perhaps you've heard of them?
Hehe.
This demonstrates the inherent weakness of coin grading... even the descriptive terms are fluid and mean different things to collectors/dealers. No standards in grading and no standards in labeling.
Cheers, RickO
Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate them.
TD
He's not dead.........he's just not breathing.:)
I don't think it's that there are NO standards, it's just that the standards aren't rigid and scientific in all respects.
"Ratings" for cars, restaurants, movies, art, music, antiques, all have elements of fluidity and opinion. And so do coins. "Experts" simply use guidelines and experience to provide an evaluation based on generally recognized measures of Quality, but of course, everyone is free to dissent and vote with their dollars.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
NW ......... No Way
NG ......... Not Good
OK ......... Okay
HMM......... Hmmm
M .......... Maybe
G .......... Good
IWI ......... I Want It
S ....... Sold
WIC ....... What? It's Counterfeit?
@Baley.... You are, of course, correct....However, I call them guidelines, not standards...The very word demands rigidity and control. Cheers, RickO
AU is a term I use when I see someone I know but forgot there name and in my best Joey from friends impersonation I say "A U"
Steve
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
PF. should stand for poof. What happens to members around here.
Does "AU" mean "Almost Uncirculated" or "About Uncirculated?"
yes
BHNC #203
About Extremely Fine (39) is the highest grade there is for circulated coins. Anyone who says different doesn't know how to grade coins.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
I get the technique and I’m a student of what I call “Words that Work” in the art of the consultation. Some words should never be uttered and others come off better or induce more predictable reactions in others. With that said, sometimes too strong a word can come off like a swarmy Obi Won Kenobi hand wave Jedi mind trick and so obviously a sales ploy that it sets off ones BS detector and just as likely kill a deal.
Now I’m Not a diamond expert but since you brought it up I had to search diamond grading terminology. I found that there are several orders of grading and Some on a letter and numerical scale. At some point they seem to have migrated away from lofty verbiage within the scale. I think that is a more classy move. For instance, I would think I could admire a diamond graded VS 1 for what it is and clearly assess a value without the distraction of a word placed in my head by a salesman. With coins, we know the coin isn’t “Good”. We can clearly see it’s a slicked out remnant. To me, it makes one, us, our hobby come off wrong.
I can easily work around it myself, but since it came up, I just wanted to say it out loud.
A rose, by any other name......
Every human endeavor has its own language and what my wife calls "weirdities". To jump in and fully participate you've got to learn it.
Doesn't Almost mean the same thing?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
au 58 = almost unc
au 55 = about almost unc
au 53 = about unc
au 50 = almost about unc