"Randall Hoard" cent story you might not have heard.
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here's the original Randall hoard story as told by Mr. Randall in the American Journal of Numismatics, 1870. Enjoy. 
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One needs to recall that large cents did not have legal tender status, so the offer at less than face value was legitimate. They were government issued tokens of convenience.
To add to what Bill stated, large cents could only be redeemed up to about 10 cents, and there were brokers who would pay 95-97 cents on the dollar for larger quantities of large cents; eventually these brokers would make their 3-5% commission over time!
Imagine the "disagrees" this discussion would have generated if they only had a message board back then.
But, back to the topic: It seems the "Randall Hoard" is somewhat misnamed since he is apparently at least the third owner in the chain after they were found!
Randall was seemingly the first person in the chain to recognize a bit of numismatic potential. The attribution is good enough for me.
The description explaining why the coins were genuine sounds like one of the hundreds of eBay auction fairytales. Found buried in a small keg in Georgia.LOL
Great post, fascinating backstory.
I had not seen reference of any cents from 1825 being in the hoard previously....I'm guessing there were not many of those in there.
A great large cent story from the 19th century. It's a good thing someone noticed there were undamaged cents included in the lot. If they hadn't, the entire lot might have been sold for scrap.
This is true, but what was the scrap value of copper at the time? The entire move to small cents was precipitated by the metal cost. And here, decades later, the metal value of large cents was LESS than face? In the Reconstruction South? I'm a little surprised by that.
Here is an 1818.
Jeff
It was my brother and grandfather's interest in coin collecting that got me started, but it's the history that kept me coming back... thanks for sharing!
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Thanks for the interesting documents.... adds some color to the history... Cheers, RickO
Were there any 1816’s in the mix? For some reason I thought they were part of the dates included.
"Got them from a guy who got them from a guy who them from a guy who them from a guy who them from a guy who them from a guy who them from a guy who found them buried".
Seems plausible
Is that Chapman from the famous Chapman brothers?
Yes, but sometimes the stories are true. Always give a story the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
English coin dealer: "I have this 1834 Proof set that a British school teacher received from the King of Siam, but the dates on the Eagle and the Dollar are wrong...."
No. Here is more information.
"Norwich [Chenango Co., NY]: The recent centennial celebration of the First Congregational Church has brought to the surface some interesting facts regarding the men and women who have made the church and incidentally have been instrumental in molding the community.
"The senior resident members and presumably the oldest living member of the church is William Porter Chapman. His membership dates from March 1857. He ahs served as trustee and deacon for a long period of years, in the latter office for 38 years. He is now chairman of the Board of Trustees and has been a teacher in the Bible school for a long time.
"His coming to Norwich antedates his church record by two years. He is the son of a Presbyterian minister and was born in 1836 in Walton [Delaware Co., NY]. His boyhood was passed in some of the small villages in Delaware county. He acquired his education in the district schools and for a while was a student at the Delaware Literary Institute in Franklin. In 1856 he came to Norwich and entered the dry goods store of his cousin, William H. Chapman, with whom he afterward formed a partnership and later succeeded as sole proprietor of the store, which has since been merged into the business of the present Chapman & Turner Company. He remained in active business until 1909, when he retired on account of impaired health, which a well earned respite has largely restored." ["The Oldest Member William P. Chapman, Patriarch of a Norwich Church & Respected Citizen." Utica Saturday Globe, June 1914. William's obituary is in the
Oneonta Daily Star, January 9, 1922.]
Also, here is William H. Chapman's letter about San Francisco several months after the earthquake and fire.
"William H. Chapman Letters relating to S.F. earthquake, June 14, 1906
June 14
My dear wife --
I wrote you a note yesterday to send down by Wallace but he got away without it. He said that he was going in the 3 pm train but left camp in the morning and did not return. So I mailed the note at noon although it was hardly worth mailing. Yesterday afternoon I took a long walk downtown. I went down Lombard to Van Ness down VanNess to Turk then up to Fillmore and then up and down through the business portion and then back to camp between 6 & 7 miles altogether. There is a great deal of talk about Fillmore being the new "Market" St. but it seems to me that many of the best stores especially dry stores are going in on Van Ness. The City of Paris is in that big gray residence that was opposite Miss Cranna's. It is very disagreeable in town on account of the dust. There is a high wind every afternoon and the streets have not been sprinkled since the fire and some of them have not been cleaned and that together with the amount of building digging and tearing down that is going on make it almost impossible to breathe or see at times. Automobile goggles are quite the proper thing. It certainly does look funny to see a girl all fixed up in her glad rags and good bonnet and then wearing a pair of goggles that cover half her face.
There is nothing new. The paper says that a number of officers on relief work are being relieved and sent home but there is no news about the troops. I must get out and see Ervin again. He will be going before long. Everyone here talks as though American Lake was a sure thing for us.
I have caught quite a cold and as a result fell sort of bum. I must go over to the hospital in the morning and have my nose and throat sprayed as I have quite a bit of (?)
This afternoon I walked over to California St. and rode out to the Cliff House and back on the electric line. The Cliff House is closed but as far as I could see neither that nor the Sutro baths were damaged. The baths seemed to be opened but I did not go in.
Heard again today the rumor that most of the troops were to leave here by the 18th but fear that there is nothing in it as the order ought to be out now if that were the case.
Good night a great deal of love to you and the boys.
Will
About this text
Courtesy of The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-6000; http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/
http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb4z09p02n&brand=oac4
Title: William H. Chapman letters : relating to the San Francisco earthquake of 1906: William H. Chapman letters relating to S.F. earthquake, June 14, 1906
By: Chapman, William H.
Date: June 14, 1906
Contributing Institution: The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-6000; http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/ "
Here's the Mason's announcement referred to in the letter:
[From Mason’s Coin and Stamp Collector’s Magazine. January 1870, p.11.]
"S. M. C. A., St. Louis –A set of U. S. Cents, without rare dates is worth, in common condition, $3.50 to $5; including rare dates, $8 to $50. An uncirculated set is worth about $1,000.
"L. M., Troy [NY] – Beware of bright pennies of old dates. Buy them as restrikes, but not as original. We can end 1816, 1817, 1818, 1819 (large and small dates) and 1820 U.S. Cents for 25 cents each, or fair ones for 2 cents each."
It would be great to figure out who the 2 owners were before William H. Chapman for these.
Here are three other Ranall Hoard dates that get less notice.
1816, N-2
1817, "N-8.5"
1819 "N-8.5"
Further information:
Cohen, David H., “The Randall Hoard,” America’s Copper Coinage 1783-1857. ANS 1984. p. 41.
RogerB, Always enjoy reading your contributions.
Thanks Roger. The NNP has the full publication available for free here.
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/512707?page=54
BTW, it's great that his full name is John Swan Randall. Never ran across that as a name, first or middle, before.