Engelhard 50 gram Vintage gold bars

YQQYQQ Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 12, 2018 1:49PM in Precious Metals

Can anyone please tell me anything about these bars? Google brought me to this forum where a thread was posted around 2012.
However, I have basically the same questions in 2018:
do these have collectors value and if so, at what % over spot?
Can they be easily sold as I do not hoard gold or any metal.
the interesting part is that the sellers , 86 and 84 years old, had all their buying invoices from the early-mid 80ties. They paid
CAN $ 1100 for all 4. (about US$ 850 in todays $)
That basically eliminates the PRoC fakes. Weigt is anywhere from 50.002 to 50.005 grams
thank for your input

Today is the first day of the rest of my life

Comments

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 10,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you go to this website:

    https://allengelhard.com/

    and then go to DEFINITIVE PAGES and then go to COLLECTIONS GALLERY and scroll down you can see a tiny image of a similar bar.

    Don't know if there is a collector premium on them.

    50 gram bars are much more likely to be encountered than five ounce bars, especially since they were purchased in a country that is not afraid of the metric system.

    Nice pickup. Hope you got them before the recent $30 jump.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • rickoricko Posts: 67,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice... and if you got them at the dip, even better. Cheers, RickO

  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭✭

    Most dealers would pay near melt IMHO. Very nice though!

    email: [email protected]

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  • A dealer will put the screws to any rare silver bar brought into the shop but Ebay will reward you!

  • cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    Can anyone please tell me anything about these bars? Google brought me to this forum where a thread was posted around 2012.
    However, I have basically the same questions in 2018:
    do these have collectors value and if so, at what % over spot?
    Can they be easily sold as I do not hoard gold or any metal.
    the interesting part is that the sellers , 86 and 84 years old, had all their buying invoices from the early-mid 80ties. They paid
    CAN $ 1100 for all 4. (about US$ 850 in todays $)
    That basically eliminates the PRoC fakes. Weigt is anywhere from 50.002 to 50.005 grams
    thank for your input

    Similar to these 1.608oz bars. Not sure why some where stamped 50g without serial numbers, vs. 1.608oz with serial numbers. None the less.....kool bars.

    Definitely have collector value.

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭✭

    thanks for your comment guys,
    I did a bit ( considerable) of homework also this AM and yesterday and found that these are indeed very scarce.
    they seem to be scarcer than the similar Degussa 50 gram bar. Apparently these are considered antique / vintage collectibles and not bullion. However, I have not come across any dealer who has one for sale. they all want to buy .
    sent an inquiry to Allengelhard site trying to get ser# and no ser# answered and explained.
    will post their answer... if the reply.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cmanbb said:

    @YQQ said:
    Can anyone please tell me anything about these bars? Google brought me to this forum where a thread was posted around 2012.
    However, I have basically the same questions in 2018:
    do these have collectors value and if so, at what % over spot?
    Can they be easily sold as I do not hoard gold or any metal.
    the interesting part is that the sellers , 86 and 84 years old, had all their buying invoices from the early-mid 80ties. They paid
    CAN $ 1100 for all 4. (about US$ 850 in todays $)
    That basically eliminates the PRoC fakes. Weigt is anywhere from 50.002 to 50.005 grams
    thank for your input

    Similar to these 1.608oz bars. Not sure why some where stamped 50g without serial numbers, vs. 1.608oz with serial numbers. None the less.....kool bars.

    Definitely have collector value.

    I would guess that the ounce weight bars (1.608) were made for the American market, and they thought that Americans would prefer serial numbers.

    And as long as I am speculating wildly, there has always been a black market for physical gold, and it would seem logical that smugglers would prefer bars without serial numbers that can be recorded and traced.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 12,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2018 9:34AM

    Bars are a very poor way to stack gold. One ounce COINS are what is liquid at most shops and ALL major dealers.

    Coins have security features built in. Reeding, wear, known design. AND... no serial numbers.

    Bars? Would YOU buy any without having a scale with you and the means to do even an AMATEUR assay?

    Bars sell to collectors.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 12,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now if LEGO made bars..... :D

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool bars for sure...

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2018 8:52AM

    Below is my inquiry to Engelhard:
    **_Hello,
    Amongst other 1 Oz AU bars I acquired 4 50 gram vintage gold ingots originally poured by your Company.
    I tried to find any information about them. However, there seems to be very little around to look up. Evan google has only sparse information.
    I would very much appreciate if you could help me with that.
    I would like to know when these ingots were made, how many were made and what the current pricing would be.
    And what the best venue would be to sell them, as I am a coin collector specializing in Queen Victoria , Canada coins.
    I have attached close up images of the items.
    There are 3 where the purity is stamped ahead of the weight, and 1 where the weight is stamped ahead of the purity.
    I am looking forward to your information about these ingots.

    Thank you for your help in this matter
    Best regards_**

    and here is the answer I received:

    **Good day, thank you for the email.

    The 50g AU examples in question were produced in the late 1960’s to early 1070’s at the Canadian Engelhard refinery facility. Great looking examples you have there, and we believe, as a suggestion, that market value on these would be 25-30% above spot value. Please keep in mind this is a subjective recommendation, and anything could happen when a dedicated collector is keen to have one, or all.

    All the best,
    AE
    **

    d

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 3,864 ✭✭✭✭

    That's pretty cool!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice comeback from them.

    I guess the only thing to do is put one up for sale and see if anybody pays a strong premium.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭

    So no info on estimated mintage. 25%-30% is a stretch imho.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those are some of the coolest gold bars I have ever seen!!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cmanbb said:
    So no info on estimated mintage. 25%-30% is a stretch imho.

    Indeed.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • VikingDudeVikingDude Posts: 812 ✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    Bars are a very poor way to stack gold.

    I agree - they tip too easy :)

  • Worthpoint archives shows three similar bars sold for $2700-$2775 on eBay back in summer of 2017. The 999.0 and 50 gram are positioned backwards from yours. Gold value was around $2k so they had a good premium over gold. They are collectible and are worth over gold value.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @idratherbgardening said:
    Worthpoint archives shows three similar bars sold for $2700-$2775 on eBay back in summer of 2017. The 999.0 and 50 gram are positioned backwards from yours. Gold value was around $2k so they had a good premium over gold. They are collectible and are worth over gold value.

    I had not noticed until you posted this and went back and looked that the upper left bar in the OP has the weight and fineness transposed relative to the others.

    I suspect that neither is "right," and that the guy with the punches just did not care.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You might point this out to the allenglehard site and provide them with pictures of both for their gallery.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you ever mention the design difference to them?

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018 8:48AM

    No, I have not had any further communication with them, just too busy right now.
    But I did read somewhere that some were done purposely that way at their Canadian refinery..
    when I inquired I did send them the images.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK thanks.

    Live your life in such a way that the Preacher does not have to lie when you are dead.
  • MeshMesh Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    eBay item number:303021357093

  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,623 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mesh said:
    eBay item number:303021357093

    how about a link to the auction...nothing comes up with the above numbers

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭

    Sold for $2400

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2019 8:49PM

    was never up on the bay.
    mine was posted right here... just follow the ling I posted.
    Now, i looked for my last post...... and it is not there.
    I was the OP on this tread, the very first post.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12218668#Comment_12218668

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    was never up on the bay.
    mine was posted right here... just follow the ling I posted.
    Now, i looked for my last post...... and it is not there.
    I was the OP on this tread, the very first post.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12218668#Comment_12218668

    Did you buy those 4 gold bars and sell them?

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭✭

    I bought these and sold 2 of them. BUT not on the bay.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    I bought these and sold 2 of them. BUT not on the bay.

    Are the other 2 available?

  • I really like those! I have some collectible 5oz Silver Engelhard Bars I may sell

  • cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭

    @blackhorse360 said:
    I really like those! I have some collectible 5oz Silver Engelhard Bars I may sell

    If they're poured 5oz bars and you decide to sell, shoot me some pics and asking prices please

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