PCGS certified coin stolen out of mail. Advice?

rhedden · September 30, 2018 4:14PM

I finally got a coin stolen out of the mail, and I'd like to hear forum members' advice. I'll keep it brief...

eBay item, $150 value range. PCGS certified Seated coin.
Coin was mailed from Michigan; took a detour through Massachusetts, and then was mis-delivered to a small town in the Catskill region, where it spent 2-3 days milling around in the woods before re-routing to Albany NY and finally Troy NY. There is obviously post office error involved here.
Package was received in the condition shown below. Mailman dropped it in my box and didn't say anything. Same mailman who dropped an $800 coin (signature confirmation) in someone else's mailbox last spring and took their signature for it.
Seller seems very established/reputable, but says "I have insurance, but the deductible is "$500. Does eBay offer buyer protection?"
I have already filed a missing item report online with the USPS, complete with pictures.

Advice appreciated on recovering funds, as well as reporting the coin's serial # as stolen.

Zoins · September 30, 2018 4:15PM

Umm wow.

Seller seems very established/reputable, but says "I have insurance, but the deductible is "$500. Does eBay offer buyer protection?"

Did you use PayPal?

Peace_dollar88 · September 30, 2018 4:22PM

Wow that's terrible

rhedden · September 30, 2018 4:24PM

Yes, PayPal. Should've mentioned that!

SiriusBlack · September 30, 2018 4:29PM

Contact PayPal, you never received the item so they should refund you. $500 deductible is sellers problem not yours. I’ve never heard of someone using their business insurance for shipping loss instead of just insuring the package through usps.

ldhair · September 30, 2018 4:34PM

Ebay and paypal should protect both you and the seller.

TwoSides2aCoin · September 30, 2018 4:37PM

Looks like an easy case for getting your money back. Responsibility would fall on the USPS . Sorry you lost the coin. Being mis delivered (initially) is the key. The postal service needs to make the restitution. On another note I'm glad you got my package safely.

rhedden · September 30, 2018 4:47PM

Oh yeah, I got your package safely I know a coin has two sides, but how many sides does a marble have?

ctf_error_coins · September 30, 2018 4:48PM

Wow.

Paypal has your back.

rhedden · September 30, 2018 4:50PM

I will follow up with Paypal first, then. Is there some kind of silly 30 day wait I have to endure?

ctf_error_coins · September 30, 2018 4:53PM

This leads to two questions ...

Is there a database for all stolen coins with serial numbers from all TPG's

Is there a PHOTO Database of all stolen coins ( that have been photographed) that can be identified by the coin uniqueness. I am sure there is not as I have/had photos of stolen coins that aren't in it. Perhaps a good idea.

ctf_error_coins · September 30, 2018 4:54PM

@rhedden said:
I will follow up with Paypal first, then. Is there some kind of silly 30 day wait I have to endure?

No, you should have your money when you call.

chumley · September 30, 2018 4:54PM

hope all works out for you....in the meantime, you may want to consider a post office box or a dog that bites mailmen

rhedden · September 30, 2018 5:07PM

I will need to station that coin-defending Rotweiler out in the Catskills somewhere. LOL.

I did get the $800 coin back last spring. It was nowhere near my house, and the person's name was nowhere near mine. I spoke to the postal inspector, and they said rather sternly, "He made a mistake." I had the coin 2 hours later, so I'm gonna say they told him to get it back or get out of town.

I lived in a high-crime area in West Texas for 8 years before this, and never once had a coin stolen (out of hundreds mailed & received). My old post office in Lubbock deserves a massive High-5 for the job they did. Now I've lived in the Albany area for 9 months, and I've had a misdelivered coin, a stolen coin, and a box of vintage marbles busted open with half of them stolen. Sad thing is that I've only bought about 10 coins the whole time I've been here, and they had a major problem delivering two of them. Color me "not impressed." Last time I mailed an order off to PCGS, I mailed it from a small town in Central NY that is nowhere near here.

Gluggo · September 30, 2018 5:13PM

So when a coin is stolen and it has a certification number do you report that number to PCGS as stolen? Do you report the stolen coin to the police or only to the postal inspector? Also it appears your postal driver has a history, but looks like the package was tampered with before it arrived. At your local post office.

drwstr123 · September 30, 2018 5:36PM

The postal endorsement is your proof of non-receipt.
The seller's deductible is the seller's problem. It is the seller's responsibility to deliver the item.
You will be made whole.

bobsr · September 30, 2018 5:53PM

Just an FYI to those using the USPS to deliver anything of value. You can bet that when your package gets rerouted to a strange location, that package was or will be in jeopardy. Whenever I ship something out I am concerned about, I send it registered mail. The package must be signed for at every step that goes thru a change of hands. When I have something that I want to ensure I get it I insist on registered mail and if necessary, I will pay the shipping difference. I have heard from multiple sources that anything going thru N.Y. USPS is Iffy at best. As for the OP, the package was stamped before delivery to you that it was damaged and missing contents. Doesn't matter what the deductible is for the shipper, It is his until delivered directly to you. He can file a claim against the USPS but paypal should and will refund your money.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs

jmlanzaf · September 30, 2018 7:22PM

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Looks like an easy case for getting your money back. Responsibility would fall on the USPS . Sorry you lost the coin. Being mis delivered (initially) is the key. The postal service needs to make the restitution. On another note I'm glad you got my package safely.

@TwoSides2aCoin said:

Not if it was shipped without postal insurance. There is no guarantee on 1st class mail.

File a chargeback and let the seller figure out if he has any coverage

jmlanzaf · September 30, 2018 7:24PM

@bobsr said:
Just an FYI to those using the USPS to deliver anything of value. You can bet that when your package gets rerouted to a strange location, that package was or will be in jeopardy. Whenever I ship something out I am concerned about, I send it registered mail. The package must be signed for at every step that goes thru a change of hands. When I have something that I want to ensure I get it I insist on registered mail and if necessary, I will pay the shipping difference. I have heard from multiple sources that anything going thru N.Y. USPS is Iffy at best. As for the OP, the package was stamped before delivery to you that it was damaged and missing contents. Doesn't matter what the deductible is for the shipper, It is his until delivered directly to you. He can file a claim against the USPS but paypal should and will refund your money.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs

Registered mail should be tremendous overkill for a $150 coin.

291fifth · September 30, 2018 7:29PM

The seller owes you a refund. The package was sent uninsured and appears to have been ripped apart by postal service sorting equipment. Since it was not insured by the postal service their response will be "tough luck". (I already had this happen to me a few years back.) Thankfully, the package has postal service markings indicating damage during shipment. This should help you if this comes to a PayPal claim.

BStrauss3 · October 1, 2018 4:30AM

it's a little disconcerting that they have a rubber stamp made up for received without content

1630Boston · October 1, 2018 4:59AM

@BStrauss3 said:
it's a little disconcerting that they have a rubber stamp made up for received without content

How Ttue

spacehayduke · October 1, 2018 5:24AM

As shipment is always the responsibility of a sender. Hence the seller is responsible for refund as others have said here.

Best, SH

mustangmanbob · October 1, 2018 5:44AM

I have been selling on ebay for 20 years, and this is easy.

1) Ebay first. File a not received with the pictures. The post office stamp is your proof.

2) 1st class can be insured, but most likely, it was not. The post office has ZERO concern or liability on uninsured 1st class mail. Do not waste your time with them. I LIKE that they have a stamp, as that helped me win a $500+ case several years ago, where a bought several items from the same seller, and he shipped empty boxes. The other problem, and I will guess this is a good example, the slab was shipped loose in the package (poor shipping practice by the seller) and is probably in the crunch pile at some sorting office somewhere.

3) Consider reading ebay and paypal T's and C's before posting a thread for advice. This would have been a better thread along the lines of "Coin shipped incorrectly packaged, lost in transit, filed with ebay, and I got my money back ASAP, as they had my back."

rhedden · October 1, 2018 5:48AM

Hopefully, I'll be able to post #3 soon to wrap this thread up. Thanks to everyone posting advice; I'll follow up with Paypal & eBay today, and let you know how it goes.

CCGGG · October 1, 2018 6:04AM

Sorry to hear that. I know I cringe every time I'm sending (or waiting to receive) coins in the US Mail. I've had hundreds of coins sent and/or received and so far, none have been lost. Some (e.g. registered packages) have floated around in the mail system for weeks but finally arrived.

DIMEMAN · October 1, 2018 6:14AM

It's the senders problem not yours. I had this happen to me once as the sender.

ricko · October 1, 2018 6:33AM

You will definitely receive compensation through paypal or ebay... nasty looking package. As a matter of curiosity, what small town in the Catskills did it 'mill around in' for a few days?? I ask because I live in such a place. Cheers, RickO

BuffaloIronTail · October 1, 2018 7:17AM

@chumley said:
hope all works out for you....in the meantime, you may want to consider a post office box or a dog that bites mailmen

Not nice, chumley. I know it was a joke, but a retired Letter Carrier like me that got bit three times, chased onto cars, and generally threatened many times in 36 years finds little humor in your post.

Pete

thefinn · October 1, 2018 7:32AM

Get a Post Office Box! This makes sure things go there, and if it was opened, you know who did something like this.

rhedden · October 1, 2018 8:49AM

I've gone ahead and filed a claim through eBay after contacting their representative. He says he expects they will issue a courtesy refund by Monday, but let's see what happens. I guess the next step would be to go to PayPal. In any event, I think I will be OK.

I agree that a P.O. box would be nice, but it would not have saved me on this item. This coin went from Michigan to Massuachusetts to Shandaken, NY, where it sat for 3 days. Pull up Shandaken on a map and let me know if you can figure out what it was doing there on its way to the Albany distribution center. I'm suspicious the item was stolen while it was in Shandaken, or en route, as it's pretty obvious it wasn't supposed to be routed through there.

jmlanzaf · October 1, 2018 9:14AM

@thefinn said:
Get a Post Office Box! This makes sure things go there, and if it was opened, you know who did something like this.

All that does is make sure the empty package is in a box. If you read the OP, the package was damaged en route.

Washingtoniana · October 1, 2018 9:27AM

the Shandaken spider catches a fly

ms70 · October 1, 2018 9:38AM

I would't be surprised if the thief is the one that put the red stamps on it.

Paradisefound · October 1, 2018 9:55AM

It will be resolved to your favor but this type of theft will eventually costing all of us .......

JBK · October 1, 2018 10:03AM

Seller seems very established/reputable, but says "I have insurance, but the deductible is "$500. Does eBay offer buyer protection?"

That's a convenient excuse. The deductible is something he needs to deal with. If eBay and/or PayPal covers you (him) that is great, but they are really saving his butt, not yours.

SiriusBlack · October 1, 2018 11:37AM

@JBK Weird, I didn't say that, not sure why it quoted me.

Kkathyl · October 1, 2018 12:07PM

would be interesting to find out why it was miss directed to MA in first place. Sorry to hear this happened to you. It is the sellers job to get it to you so you should be covered. I would avoid giving negative review as a result but you have a package clearly marked that it did not get to you complete.

I never ship anything with the EBAY logo because I think it sends out red flags to carriers.

JBK · October 1, 2018 12:28PM

@SiriusBlack said:
@JBK Weird, I didn't say that, not sure why it quoted me.

Sorry - looks like I did too much editing. I saw your post with the insurance comment and thought it was yours, but it was part of the OP's comment that you were quoting....

derryb · October 1, 2018 12:45PM

@bobsr said:
Just an FYI to those using the USPS to deliver anything of value. You can bet that when your package gets rerouted to a strange location, that package was or will be in jeopardy. Whenever I ship something out I am concerned about, I send it registered mail. The package must be signed for at every step that goes thru a change of hands.

Registered packages are also subject to taking the long route to their delivery point.

The bar code scanning process often puts many shipments of all kinds on the wrong truck/airplane. I recently watched tracking on a registered shipment to me in Florida from Texas seller take a detour through Alaska.

Moldnut · October 1, 2018 1:10PM

Man, that P.O. is just missing the "Banjo Boy".

JBK · October 1, 2018 2:25PM

@Moldnut said:
Man, that P.O. is just missing the "Banjo Boy".

Hey!! Most of the POs I deal with in my area are that size or smaller. I prefer it that way.

News about the postage rate increases takes a while to filter down to the small Post Offices, so I am still mailing letters for a quarter,

Besides, It is easier to keep them in line when the whole town is related.

rhedden · October 1, 2018 2:27PM

Wouldn't surprise me if the coin was stolen in some huge mail distribution center in Mass., and the thief threw the empty envelope in a bin destined for Shandaken. I just thought you guys would appreciate the detour it took on its way to Albany.

Timbuk3 · October 1, 2018 2:53PM

Geez, thats terrible !!!

thefinn · October 1, 2018 10:12PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@thefinn said:
Get a Post Office Box! This makes sure things go there, and if it was opened, you know who did something like this.

All that does is make sure the empty package is in a box. If you read the OP, the package was damaged en route.

And if you had read what the OP wrote, it had traveled half way around NY before getting to him. It could have been taken at any one of the places it had made a pitstop at. PO to PO doesn't have that problem usually.

jmlanzaf · October 2, 2018 3:46AM

@thefinn said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@thefinn said:
Get a Post Office Box! This makes sure things go there, and if it was opened, you know who did something like this.

All that does is make sure the empty package is in a box. If you read the OP, the package was damaged en route.

And if you had read what the OP wrote, it had traveled half way around NY before getting to him. It could have been taken at any one of the places it had made a pitstop at. PO to PO doesn't have that problem usually.

The route would not have been effected by the end point. It was going PO to PO when it got lost. It wasn't his local delivery guy driving it around rural new york

rhedden · October 9, 2018 8:49AM

Well, here's an update on eBay's money-back guarantee. I have to go file a police report to get a refund, apparently. What a hassle. Why are they telling me this a week after I called them?

email received:

Your eBay Money Back Guarantee case - SR#1-#########

Hello Ronald ,

Thanks for contacting us about Liberty Quarter Dollar (-----------). I'm sorry to hear there was an issue with your order. I understand that you received an empty box.

In order to help us resolve this case, please file a report with your local police or law enforcement agency.

Please include the following in the report:

Description of the item 
Name of the officer filing the report
Badge number of the officer filing the report
Station location (city and state)
Station phone number

We've placed this case on hold for 5 days to allow you to get an incident report. Once you have the report, you can scan it and upload it via this link:

https://---------------------------------------=USMemberAppeals

In the comments section, please add, "Service Request Number 1---------," case ID (---------), and item number (-------------) to allow us to track and link your documents with this concern. Once you have selected your documents, you will want to select the General document type. Click Send and wait for the confirmation to appear to ensure that your documents have been submitted for review.

If your local police or law enforcement agency is unable to provide the report you requested, please send us the information listed above and we’ll contact them to verify that you attempted to file a report.

We've placed this case on hold for 10 calendar days to give you time to file and send the report. Once we receive and confirm the report, we'll close the case in your favor and send you a refund. If we don't hear from you within 10 calendar days, we'll close the case and you won't receive a refund.

If you need more time, just let us know by replying to this message.

We appreciate your cooperation and we look forward to your response so we can resolve this for you.

Thanks,

eBay

derryb · October 9, 2018 10:57AM

File the claim with paypal. I never file with ebay.

ChrisH821 · October 9, 2018 11:10AM

What a PITA, although I guess I can understand the extra step, keeps the honest people honest and might make those who are trying to play the system think twice.

rhedden · October 9, 2018 11:21AM

I filed the police report and turned it in to eBay. It just seems like adding time-consuming hoops for the buyer to jump through is something they do to cut down on the number of claims filed.

Fortunately, our municipality has an online system, so I did not need to take up the time of the officers who surely have more urgent things to do this afternoon.

BStrauss3 · October 9, 2018 3:32PM

Why in the heck would a local PD report matter? Theft from the mails is a FEDERAL crime.

It's like going to MickeyDs and asking for a Whopper.

PCGS certified coin stolen out of mail. Advice?

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