Bonds or Griffey
stwainfan
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They were both two of the best ever. Was one better than the other? Who had the better career?
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I like griffey better, but there is no doubt bonds was the better player
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Loaded question you pose.. so many angles to take on this one.
Simply knowing who had the untainted career and was respected enough to garner a record HOF vote. I would vote Griffey. I am a little biased you may see..
Bonds was the most feared hitter I have ever seen. You could not get anything past him for a while...
Read these for some more opinions..
http://assets.espn.go.com/mlb/s/2000/0419/490908.html
https://www.hbcusports.com/forums/threads/the-great-debate-better-baseball-player-griffey-or-bonds.122674/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/643973-griffey-vs-bonds-how-their-decisions-will-determine-their-place-in-history
Nic
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If Griffey had stayed healthy. He could have been the all time HR leader. I agree Bonds was the most feared hitter.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
Fixed it for you
Bonds never failed a drug test.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
Yet the all-time HR leader still has to buy a ticket to say he's in the HOF
How many years did it take Griffey to get elected?
Griffey by a long shot.
I love following bodybuilding and this is one of those cases where I will take the guy that looks natural all day every day 100% of the time. Griffey may have used something as it was rampant at the time and probably still is but he shows no visible signs of any use. If you look at all competitive physique and bodybuilders 100% are using drugs. They would never look like that or be that strong without them. Bonds was a stud but not a 73 homer guy. Griffey was highly consistent until his later years and I believe was just an all around better player. I loved watching Barry blast the pitches but if anyone thinks the roids didn't enhance that significantly they are delusional.
I'll take the guy whose head didn't double in size over a 3 year span
Interesting stat: Griffey has more 50+ HR seasons (2) than Bonds (1)
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Griffey got in on First ballot. Bonds I think should be in. I think part of it. Is that he was known for dissing reporters. So they don't vote for him.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
The problem I have with Bonds is that he was an absolutely awesome player before the roids with multiple MVP awards.
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Griffey
I agree. it came naturally for both, fun to watch. but bonds was just ridiculous at times. I saw him in Baltimore hit 7 in a row out in BP.
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Bonds
not all PED users have the muscle bound look of a body builder. We really have no idea if griffey used or not. he could have been on hgh or some other enhancer. He did have a lot of tendon/ligament/soft tissue injuries that are common with those who use steroids.
My thoughts on this topic have evolved over the years as I have learned more about the history of PED use in baseball. If we are going to draw a line for those who used, everyone who used needs to be in the same net including Mantle, Mays, Galvin, Aaron, Schmidt, Rose, Williams, Ruth and many many more.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Bonds was better and had the better career. It is impossible for me to care any less about steroids than I do.
Arthur
This is not a close issue.
One of my good friends is a personal trainer and used to be a pro ball player. He takes steroids. When you speak to people that actually played at a highly competitive level they will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can play at a higher level. You can run faster, throw harder, and swing the bat faster and inevitably hit the ball further. I think the real question is what percentage of the league was clean during this period. If everyone was on stuff you could make the argument it was a level playing field but comparing the stats to guys in the 50's or 60's and even 70's would be a worthless exercise. I have no clue if Griffey used but there is no evidence online that would be a give away like there is with Bonds.
At this point in time, I dont think anyone is above the steroid cloud. we also need to realize that PED's are nothing new. they have been used since at least the 1880's and right up through. Even Babe Ruth used in the mid 1920's, as did Mantle in 1961. Amphetemines are also a PED and were used heavily for decades though they are outlawed now. Willie Mays was a well known amphetemine user.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Taking uppers vs. drugs that turn you into an animal I don't believe is a good comparison.
Funny that this exact debate may relate to Barry taking steroids in the first place. As the story goes, Bonds was motivated to begin his first cycle because Ken Griffey, Jr. (and not Barry) was selected to the All Century Team.
Personally, I think Griffey was the better all around player but Bonds prowess at the plate is unmatched by nearly anyone who ever played.
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are you saying that amphetemines are not a PED, or that it is a matter of degree, that amphetemines are less bad than steroids? either are bad arguments i think. Is taking lots of anabolic steroids worse than taking just a little? Is it less bad to use HGH than Steroids? It is a slippery slope. I think people talk down Amphetemine use because many of the heros of the golden age took them. They are in fact a PED and a pretty effective one. why else would WWII fighter pilots have used them? You have heard the Ted Williams whispers, right?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The real question, IMO, is whether Bonds or Ruth was the best of all time. No one else is all that close.
Alex Relyea
If I were a manager building a team, and had my choice of two all time great offensive outfielders, I’ll take the better clubhouse guy with an uptick on defense.
That’s Griffey, by the way.
Not making any comparison health wise.
Taking speed doesn't make you hit the ball 200 feet further. Lots of those guys were big drinkers and stayed out until the wee hours of the night and so my guess is they used them for energy to be able to play. One of my favorite drinks of choice is Sugar Free Red Bull and Vodka. Drinking something that gives you an up doesn't turn you into a super human athlete.
Look at Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry who were big coke heads. Their performance got worse over time not better.
Taking something to stay awake could be viewed as cheating so cheating is cheating but the stuff that Big Mac and the rest of the crew were taking made them better ballplayer's than they otherwise would have been. Have Mantle go to bed at 10 o'clock and not 7 AM and he might not have even taken the pills you mention.
But it is
From a playing perspective, I give Bonds the nod. But Junior's character trumped his by a much wider margin. That absolutely matters to me.
Will never forget standing outside of Busch Stadium in the late 90s watching Bonds completely shun fans as he hopped on a bus after a game............while the rest of his teammates -- who had been waiting patiently the better part of an hour -- were on another
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I think it is Bonds by a landslide. I agree it is between Ruth or Bonds for the GOAT.
I think there is some denial that steroids don't make you better. I don't understand it because it isn't even debatable but it exists.
It is very clear that an athlete improves on these drugs in every sport. It is why they take them.
This is not exactly an apples to apples comparison but just this weekend Shawn Rhoden won the Mr. Olympia at 43. He has gotten better at an older age. As I stated above 100% of these guys are on a ton of stuff and guess what it works! It is unheard of in most sports to actually get better at an older age. Well father time is no match for the drug industry. To confirm the stuff gives you super human strength just look at someone like Ronnie Coleman and what he looks like now. I saw him pose in 2003 in his off season weight of 345 at his peak. Look at pics of him as a young man. Well he is back to looking that way and can lift a fraction of the weight and faces significant physical challenges from the over use of his body. There is a great assumption that Bonds or anyone would stay level as they got in their late 30's in baseball but instead they skyrocketed. Without the drugs it is questionable at a minimum what their performance would be and one could easily argue it might not even be comparable to earlier years do the natural progression of the body. It just makes looking at the stats without an asterisk impossible.
I think it's interesting you're so convinced the Griffey was clean. So he was the one guy hitting 50+ homers every year in the late 90s without roids, while also having a million muscle and tissue issues usually linked with steroids?
Tabe I haven't followed Griffey after his playing years. What kind of issues is he having?
Nope.
Get real people. In 1300 more PAs Bonds WAR was double that of Griffey. Bonds’ OPS+ is 3rd all time; Griffey is tied for 104th.
How can you even take any of his stats seriously? You have Barry and then super hero Barry. They are not one in the same.
McGwire is 11th on that list. And Brian Giles is tied with Griffey. I rest my case.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
Rest what case?
Lance Armstrong didn't either.
Big Papi did but will probably get in before Bonds.
Lebron is benifitting nicely.
I'm referring to his playing days. Lots of muscle issues.
Griffey very well could have used PEDS and in all your nonsense you cannot say 100% that he did or didn’t. Period, end of discussion.
Take a break sometime from being so obtuse
Griffey had tons of tendon/ligament/muscle issues during the second half of his career. very common with steroid use. look at bonds in 1999, he tore his bicep tendon and missed significant time.
at this point, no one can be assumed innocent. I can make a statistical case that tubby tony gwynn was a user based on his unreal late career improvement.
look at kirby puckett. he went from a slap hitter to hitting with pretty decent power seemingly overnight in the 1980's. then he develops glaucoma and dies from a stroke at 45. both are symptoms of steroid abuse.
I realize there is no direct evidence, but statistical cases can be made for many many players who had late career excellence or resurgence. look at randy johnson and hank aaron for example.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Says you.
Since it’s being dicussed, I always like to mention that Pumping Iron came out in 1972 (I think) in part because steroids were becoming very big business. So to think weightlifters could get them and pro athletes could not is ridiculous. Every athlete looks for an edge; I assume the best ones do to.
The Olympic Germans were taking them as far back as 1936.
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