Griffey was the superior fielder (not even close), Bonds was the better hitter. Both are two of the best to play the game and brought plenty of excitement.
@Dpeck100 said:
In some capacity I understand the argument that adderall can improve performance but I don't believe it is transformational like steroids and HGH can be in ones performance.
There are wildly different outcomes possible with steroids from a natural person.
I've taken both.
Adderall for 5 years and Sus-V 250 for a few cycles.
@Dpeck100 said:
Taking uppers vs. drugs that turn you into an animal I don't believe is a good comparison.
Forgive me as I am just now reading about this topic and replying to what interests me.
Amphetamines such as Adderall can be considered an "upper" yes; but it does help with focus and concentration considerably (I was on it for several years).
Those are the types of PED's that are being used for the most part. Not so much to get bigger. Pretty sure a lot of time in the gym was also included n the regiment.
So yea, I'd say the comparison is actually somewhat similar.
Jim Bouten in his book "Ball Four" discussed amphetamine use in MLB he said they could help, but if you weren't careful and took too many you (a pitcher in this case) could get overconfident (he used the word "gay") and groove a pitch that got clobbered.
Steroids are a different ballgame here.
I do agree that both drugs are tools to cheat with, but steroids are MUCH worse.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Dpeck100 said:
In some capacity I understand the argument that adderall can improve performance but I don't believe it is transformational like steroids and HGH can be in ones performance.
There are wildly different outcomes possible with steroids from a natural person.
I've taken both.
Adderall for 5 years and Sus-V 250 for a few cycles.
2 totally different drugs...
It is interesting reading about this compound. In the review it gives it an anabolic rating of 100 and goes on to compare it to trenbolone which you increasingly hear about today with a rating of 500. This is exactly what I was referring to in prior posts that some of the newer designer steroids are drastically stronger. I wouldn't have know they were this much stronger but this further explains why the results people are getting have increased over the years.
A guy I used to be friendly with that lived in my neighborhood was taking test and tren and already had anger issues but it turned him into a nut case. There is really no disputing that steroids work. I train religiously five days a week and look about the same year round as a 100% natural lifter with no supplements taken either. If I took steroids I would easily be 25 pounds of muscle heavier and it would all be a facade. Yes it is Dave but it isn't really Dave. As soon as the drugs were stopped being taken the weight would come right off. It is so funny to watch dudes at the gym in between cycles as it is glaringly obvious what is going on.
In order to be a good baseball player you have to have excellent hand eye coordination to begin with and steroids perhaps slightly improve that but they beyond a shadow of a doubt improve strength and speed levels and can take an average player and make them a good player and take a great player and make them untouchable. Once again it is the steroids that simply make you better and that is the beef that many have with it. Take them off and they are back to reality and in some cases worse due to injuries to the muscles and joints. In my view steroids are one of the most dangerous drugs out there because the addiction levels can be so high. Most drugs hurt your performance level in life but steroids are the exact opposite. You not only improve in athletics you improve at getting women and attention and so people good hooked on the positive benefits ignoring the health and physical risks. It is an epidemic overseas and there is definitely wide spread use in the U.S. and if I had to bet I would still say there is tons of use in pro sports including MLB. We discussed this topic some months back and a board member said to watch the movie Icarus. After viewing that if anyone is still not convinced drugs are a problem today in sports they simply just have their head in the sand.
Drugs are always a step ahead. Lance Armstrong passed all of his tests for a reason and many athletes today are too. Athletes used to have nutritionists for advice and now they have chemists (Lebron). There is just too much money involved when you are negotiating a contract and to some it's worth the risk ( Robinson Cano, Ryan Braun). They won't make it to the HOF but they will have made hundreds of millions in their career as opposed to a fraction of that. Anyone who says steroids don't work is delusional. 20 years ago I took Sustanon 250 and decca durabolin for 3 months. I have never been stronger in my life than those 3 months and when I was done with my cycle I felt like complete crap. I lost it just as soon as I gained it. When your max bench is 225 for one rep and you are doing it for 10-12 reps while you are on your cycle that just tells you how insane this stuff is when you are on it.
I'm learning more about my fellow collectors than I am about Griffey or Bonds!
I will take both of them, and in 20 years so will everyone else. Can't help but look at Tiger Woods right now as a window into the power of a redemption story to wash away all transgressions.
@perkdog said:
It don’t matter if they were mass murderers or not, Mantle and Griffey will always be the most loved baseball heroes of many a grown man lol
By 93 Bonds had 3 MVP trophy's. Griffey didn't get his only 1 until 97. Bonds got 3 well before the steroids allegations: http://hommemuscle.com/ . If you follow baseball Bonds has always been known as one of the best but Griffey was more loved by the media because he was great with them. Bonds always told them to kiss his arse.
@noONEno said:
By 93 Bonds had 3 MVP trophy's. Griffey didn't get his only 1 until 97. Bonds got 3 well before the steroid allegations. If you follow baseball Bonds has always been known as one of the best but Griffey was more loved by the media because he was great with them. Bonds always told them to kiss his arse.
MVP awards not a very good way of determining who's best.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
How do we know Griffey was clean? How do we know when Bonds started using? everyone assumes 1998 or 1999, but he has never admitted or failed a test. I believe it was Mark Mcgwires brother who was a body builder and admitted steroid user who helped Mark start using. He wrote a book and said Mark used steroids from the start. look at some photos of mark from the late 80's and early 90's. he looked pretty thin then, though his brother said he helped him juice back then.
Guys dont need to be musclebound freaks to be on the juice. It is impossible to assume when and whom unless there is an admission or a failed test.
Comments
Griffey was the superior fielder (not even close), Bonds was the better hitter. Both are two of the best to play the game and brought plenty of excitement.
I've taken both.
Adderall for 5 years and Sus-V 250 for a few cycles.
2 totally different drugs...
Retired Disabled Vet (Army). Corps of Engineers.
Jim Bouten in his book "Ball Four" discussed amphetamine use in MLB he said they could help, but if you weren't careful and took too many you (a pitcher in this case) could get overconfident (he used the word "gay") and groove a pitch that got clobbered.
Steroids are a different ballgame here.
I do agree that both drugs are tools to cheat with, but steroids are MUCH worse.
I have > @Saspursfan78 said:
It is interesting reading about this compound. In the review it gives it an anabolic rating of 100 and goes on to compare it to trenbolone which you increasingly hear about today with a rating of 500. This is exactly what I was referring to in prior posts that some of the newer designer steroids are drastically stronger. I wouldn't have know they were this much stronger but this further explains why the results people are getting have increased over the years.
https://ironjunkies.com/sustanon-250-review
A guy I used to be friendly with that lived in my neighborhood was taking test and tren and already had anger issues but it turned him into a nut case. There is really no disputing that steroids work. I train religiously five days a week and look about the same year round as a 100% natural lifter with no supplements taken either. If I took steroids I would easily be 25 pounds of muscle heavier and it would all be a facade. Yes it is Dave but it isn't really Dave. As soon as the drugs were stopped being taken the weight would come right off. It is so funny to watch dudes at the gym in between cycles as it is glaringly obvious what is going on.
In order to be a good baseball player you have to have excellent hand eye coordination to begin with and steroids perhaps slightly improve that but they beyond a shadow of a doubt improve strength and speed levels and can take an average player and make them a good player and take a great player and make them untouchable. Once again it is the steroids that simply make you better and that is the beef that many have with it. Take them off and they are back to reality and in some cases worse due to injuries to the muscles and joints. In my view steroids are one of the most dangerous drugs out there because the addiction levels can be so high. Most drugs hurt your performance level in life but steroids are the exact opposite. You not only improve in athletics you improve at getting women and attention and so people good hooked on the positive benefits ignoring the health and physical risks. It is an epidemic overseas and there is definitely wide spread use in the U.S. and if I had to bet I would still say there is tons of use in pro sports including MLB. We discussed this topic some months back and a board member said to watch the movie Icarus. After viewing that if anyone is still not convinced drugs are a problem today in sports they simply just have their head in the sand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus_(2017_film)
Drugs are always a step ahead. Lance Armstrong passed all of his tests for a reason and many athletes today are too. Athletes used to have nutritionists for advice and now they have chemists (Lebron). There is just too much money involved when you are negotiating a contract and to some it's worth the risk ( Robinson Cano, Ryan Braun). They won't make it to the HOF but they will have made hundreds of millions in their career as opposed to a fraction of that. Anyone who says steroids don't work is delusional. 20 years ago I took Sustanon 250 and decca durabolin for 3 months. I have never been stronger in my life than those 3 months and when I was done with my cycle I felt like complete crap. I lost it just as soon as I gained it. When your max bench is 225 for one rep and you are doing it for 10-12 reps while you are on your cycle that just tells you how insane this stuff is when you are on it.
Griffey.
I'm learning more about my fellow collectors than I am about Griffey or Bonds!
I will take both of them, and in 20 years so will everyone else. Can't help but look at Tiger Woods right now as a window into the power of a redemption story to wash away all transgressions.
-Nathanael
It don’t matter if they were mass murderers or not, Mantle and Griffey will always be the most loved baseball heroes of many a grown man lol
By 93 Bonds had 3 MVP trophy's. Griffey didn't get his only 1 until 97. Bonds got 3 well before the steroids allegations: http://hommemuscle.com/ . If you follow baseball Bonds has always been known as one of the best but Griffey was more loved by the media because he was great with them. Bonds always told them to kiss his arse.
MVP awards not a very good way of determining who's best.
How do we know Griffey was clean? How do we know when Bonds started using? everyone assumes 1998 or 1999, but he has never admitted or failed a test. I believe it was Mark Mcgwires brother who was a body builder and admitted steroid user who helped Mark start using. He wrote a book and said Mark used steroids from the start. look at some photos of mark from the late 80's and early 90's. he looked pretty thin then, though his brother said he helped him juice back then.
Guys dont need to be musclebound freaks to be on the juice. It is impossible to assume when and whom unless there is an admission or a failed test.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm going with Griffey. That bastard put a lot of holes in my Yankee fan heart.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240